Ascoli65 Member
  • from Italy
  • Member since May 28th 2016
  • Last Activity:

Posts by Ascoli65

    That is incorrect. When an experiment has been widely replicated at a high signal to noise ratio by experts, and these replications carefully reviewed, there cannot be errors in it. If there could be errors, the scientific method would not work. No experiment would ever be certain; no fact confirmed; and no scientific laws established. We would still be arguing over whether Newton's prism experiment was right, and white light has all colors in it.


    There has to be some reasonable limit to the number of replications and the s/n ratio we reach before a question is settled.


    You are saying that experimental techniques perfected by Faraday and J. P. Joule don't work. [...]

    Everyone agrees that Newton, Faraday and Joule's experiments have been replicated and that their science is correct. But what about LENR?


    Last year, McKubre said (1) that LENR has a "limited replicability – but not on demand – or from written description alone".


    Do you agree with him? Is this level of replicability comparable to the science of Newton, Faraday and Joule?


    Quote

    You have not found any errors and neither has anyone else.

    THH hasn't, but I (IMO) did. The problem is that he refuses to look closely at the only CF experiment (to be discussed in another thread (2)) that is well documented, and whose errors can be fully demonstrated.


    Quote

    McKubre himself says that an unreplicated result is tantamount to no result.

    In (1), McKubre also states: "b. As far as I am aware Lonchampt and his team were and are the only group ever to attempt an exact engineering replication of the original Fleischmann Pons experiment."


    So, does all of the LENR credibility depend on this one experiment? Or was McKubre wrong, in this respect?


    (1) RE: What should we do next ? - A relevant question from Matt Trevithick

    (2) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    Take that discussion to the other thread please.

    Which other thread? The one about "ICCF24 presentations"?


    I can't understand why. The question I'm asking to THH is not related to any ICCF24 presentation.


    Moreover, you have asked that my "rhetoric", and I think you include in it also my "obsessions" with F&P mistakes, should be … er, expressed in this thread, which you kindly provided me on purpose (1).


    I don't want to interfere and disturb other discussions with OT arguments.


    (1) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    Dear THHuxleynew,


    it seems to me that, once again, you are kicking against a brick wall in the thread on the ICCF24 presentations. I don't know if you got tired enough, I admire your perseverance, but I fear you are looping in another inconclusive discussion.


    Anyway, I take this opportunity to go back at a previous comment of you that I had left aside.


    I reply to it in this thread, which is more adequate to address what I'm about to ask you at the end.

    I thank you for having expressed such a positive opinion about me, but let me tell you that I'm not so sure you got my points exactly.


    First of all, I would like to clarify that I'm not personally anti F&P. I just point out that they have made huge mistakes in their most important work and I wonder how it is possible to discuss any other result obtained by referring to their alleged nuclear effect, without first clarifying the existence, cause, gravity and consequences of these mistakes.


    Since 2011, when I started to get interested in the LENR field due to the involvement of UniBo in the Ecat adventure, I have dedicated my attention to various protagonists of the CF/LENR research, starting from the Italians: Focardi and his fellows at UniBo and Celani. I also commented extensively on the works of Takahashi and Mizuno. So, I'm not single-minded with the F&P issues only.


    But when, in Autumn 2018, I began to take a closer look at F&P's work and realized what kind of mistakes they made in their "Simplicity paper", I felt that clarifying those mistakes was a top priority for understanding the entire evolution of the CF/LENR field.


    Now, back to us. If you like, I'd propose to do some science the way we like. Others will read and, if they wish, join our discussion.


    Just to be sure that it coincides with mine, would you, please, tell me what is your full interpretation of Fig.8 in the F&P's "Simplicity paper" (1)?


    (1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf

    I still think Ascoli was being tricky, but he is welcome to explain here whether or not he was being sincere. To his credit, he did finish up by asking me if I had another interpretation of the one HIVER/NAVSEA slide with an unreadable small print image of the 2015 McKubre paper titled: "Cold fusion: comments on the state of scientific proof". And of course I do...

    I don't know which trick you are talking about, and most importantly I don't understand why you are contesting my sincerity. Your sentences, my dear friend, sounds like those of the Holy Inquisition. :)


    In any case, in my first post on this thread (1) I specified the link to McKubre's paper (2). The title of this paper is clearly readable on the video of the presentation. I took a minute to find the pdf. Everyone could have read its contents.


    Quote

    In his post, Ascoli cherry picks this one sentence at the beginning of the McK article: "In the light of 25 years further study of the palladium–deuterium system, what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons’ claims?", which he uses to speculate that:


    Quote from Ascoli65

    So, it seems to me that, contrary to what you said, the NAVSEA-DARPA slide means that without having first solved the F&P issues, the field will not succeed, that is, it will remain hanging back.

    In (1), I quoted the entire summary, not just a single sentence. I think McKubre is able to write a summary and condense the substance of his paper into it. And Barham is also able to read a paper, so he knew what McKubre's paper was about, and he decided to put it on the slide.


    As for my quote above, I only referred to the final question, because I had already reported it integrally in my first post. Should I have repeated the entire summary again?


    Quote

    But Ascoli neglected (which I have to assume was intentional since it undermines his "interpretation") to inform us what McK went on to say in the very next paragraph of his paper:

    "Having studied this phenomenon almost full time for the past 25 years, I will state my preliminary conclusion up front and then proceed with a more nuanced discussion. Whatever it is and by whatever underlying mechanism it proceeds, the accumulated evidence strongly supports the conclusion that nuclear effects take place in condensed matter states by pathways, at rates and with products different from those of the simple, isolated, pairwise nuclear reactions that we are so familiar with in free space (i.e. two-body interactions)"

    Hey, this is in the introduction! Should I have reported and commented the entire McKubre paper?


    I know very well that McKubre is convinced that the FPHE does exist, but this is not the focus of his paper, nor of the HIVER initiative. The problem for them is to convince the large scientific community. Barham's slide is very clear on this point starting from the title, which mentions the issues of the LENR field. Which issues? Lack of acceptance, he wrote three times. The first time he was referring to thermal (heat) results.

    Quote

    So, I am not sure why Barham had the slide up there, other than as a backdrop maybe. But it surely was not there for whatever nefarious reasons Ascoli thinks.

    What nefarious reasons have I attributed to the presence of McKubre's paper on Barham's slide? I only wrote (1) "It confirms that F&P's claims are still at the center of the entire CF/LENR controversy: "what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons’ claims?"


    The paper wrote by McKubre in 2015 talks about the criticism of science on F&P's claims. Barham placed this paper on the slide where he listed the reasons for the "Lack of acceptance" of LENR. Look at the slide layout. It's quite full of written lines. Do you really think that it required a backdrop?


    Or are you arguing that Barham put a random paper on his slide? It would have been quite bizarre. The same slide, was presented in October last year (3), including the first page of the same McKubre's paper, and you can easily read its text with Acrobat.


    Therefore, I think it is undeniable that McKubre's paper was placed there on purpose.

    Quote

    While he has no doubt FP's were wrong, and wants the science to die, the field has little or no doubt about FP's, and has no intention of dying out anytime soon.

    Well, I'd just like to discuss seriously and correctly my remarks. I made no mystery that they include the fact that both conclusions of F&P's "simplicity paper" are wrong. But every time I try to explain why, I am asked to look elsewhere, at other authors, experiments or papers, or even worse. I don't think this is very scientific. I'd like science and scientific method to survive, also here on this forum.


    (1) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (2) http://ikkem.com/iccf23/speakervideo/1a-IN01-Mckubre.mp4

    (3) https://arpa-e.energy.gov/site…1LENR_workshop_Barham.pdf

    You are ignoring many Nickel Hydrogen positive results that are based on the F&P original idea, and published through the years in Fusion Technology by many and il Nuovo Cimento by Piantelli and Focardi. You just have “F&P tunnel vision”.

    I don't understand your remark. Why should I talk about Ni-H or Focardi? This is a thread dedicated to choosing one of the ICCF24 presentations.


    I've made my pick, choosing the same Barham's presentation chosen by Shane, and explained my reasons (1). After that, Shane replied to me introducing the argument of "reputation trap" (2), Alan Smith did the same (3), and when JR reminded us that this argument was the subject of another ICCF24 presentation (4), I felt I could express my more complete opinion on this argument without departing from the topic of this thread (5).


    Anyway, as far as Ni-H and Focardi are concerned, in the past years, I've talked extensively about them and other CF protagonists, such as Celani, Takahashi, and others (if you want I can remind you the main posts in which I have explained my opinion), but there is no doubt that F&P are the most representative protagonists in the field. Why do you want to exclude them from the CF debate?


    My "F&P tunnel vision" is shared with many others here. Look at JR. I can show you a long list of his posts where he put F&P in the foreground, challenging interlocutors to find a single mistake in their works. Is he also affected by the "F&P tunnel vision" syndrome?


    And could you tell me why he can freely state that a phantom close-up video from F&P is the "definitive proof of anomalous excess heat" (6), while when I ask to look closely at a really existing and available time-lapse videos of them I'm invited to look elsewhere or even ridiculed?


    (1) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (2) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (3) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (4) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (5) RE: Which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic?

    (6) RE: MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY

    None are hanging back because FP's is unresolved (if indeed they are) that I know of.

    I'm sorry, I hope this post is not considered poison, but the third slide of the Barham's presentation, you have chose in the first post of this thread as the most likely to sway a skeptic, shows these lines:

    What I understand is that, for the proponents of the HIVER project, the listed issues must be resolved (in a transparent way) for LENR to be accepted as a research area, otherwise no one group will succeed.


    The first issue on their list is about thermal (heat) results, and the McKubre paper, shown on the right side of the slide, is mostly dedicated at F&P and asks at the end of the summary: "In the light of 25 years further study of the palladium–deuterium system, what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons’ claims?"


    So, it seems to me that, contrary to what you said, the NAVSEA-DARPA slide means that without having first solved the F&P issues, the field will not succeed, that is, it will remain hanging back.


    Am I wrong? Do you have another interpretation?

    He was not the only person who had a renewed interest in LENR due to Rossi. I have admitted that myself. Plenty of others have said the same without attributing it to Rossi's making a grand interest onto the scene. So, is there something wrong with that, or are you just stirring up trouble?


    When LENR is accepted as real, the historians will have to sort out exactly how much a role a conman played in jump-starting a science on life support. There is a certain irony to the whole thing. It should make for some good books at least, and will earn a special chapter in the annals of sciences weird stories.


    Now time for you do something productive. Why don't you start looking at more of the videos and tell us which ones you see some promise in?

    I am well aware that many people had a renewed interest in LENR due to Rossi, or better to say, thanks to their confidence in the competence of the UniBo professors who supported his claims. This is understandable for laymen with little scientific knowledge. It's much less plausible for those who teaches at the university, because errors and inconsistencies in the Ecat tests were so evident since the first demonstration in Bologna, on January 14, 2011.


    Ecat defects could have been easily and immediately detected also by the experts in the field, but the support of the LENR community for Rossi was almost unanimous and lasted many years, during which Ecat became synonymous with cold fusion. Even today, the most followed threads on L-F, apart from OT subjects such as Covid, are dedicated to Rossi.


    The Rossi's saga is an evident example of a collective mirage, in which the opinion of an entire community of experts was influenced by their positive bias toward their field. It took several years to convince most of them that they were wrong about Rossi and to close the threads on this forum dedicated to him, but almost no one is now willing to admit that he was wrong on Rossi, including the prominent speaker of the presentation about "Risk and Reputation".


    The same goes for F&P: they were wrong. Their 1992 videos, the only truly meaningful videos in CF, prove that they mistaken both the conclusions in their most important paper reporting their most important experiment. Historians will tell how many more years it will take for the LENR community to become aware of the F&P's mistakes, as they did with Rossi's.


    The NAVSEA-DARPA initiative, exposed by Barham during his presentation at ICCF24, has the chance to shorten this conversion period, if the program described in slide 3 will be coherently implemented. This is why I agree with your pick on this presentation as the most likely to sway a skeptic, … in the right direction, I mean.


    The presentation on "Risk and Reputation" is also very important because it analyzes the opportunity of pursuing the CF/LENR research in the context of the current epochal threats to human civilization and even to its existence.


    The speaker approach is well summarized by his seafaring analogy, he said: "I pointed out that for hungry sailors missing a passing island could be just as deadly as hitting an iceberg". But this parallel assumes that sailors are unwilling to change the sailing direction and they firmly believe that sooner or later an island will appear on the horizon. Both of these assumptions are very bad choices for shrewd sailors. Instead, they should have considered in time the option of not straying too far from the coast in a direction where no one can assure they will find another suitable landing place. In such a scenario, the deadly choice is believing the siren suggestions that ensure the existence of flourishing islands ahead. Therefore, along with the risks of false positives and false negatives, the Bertrand Russel's successor should have taken into accounts, in his evaluation on the opportunity to pursuing such a "low probability high impact" research, the higher risk of spreading false hopes.


    And this is exactly the current sad situation of humanity. We have been attracted by the sirens of limitless energy provided by nuclear fusion (I am referring mainly to the hot one) and they have diverted us offshore further and further, to a no island zone, from where it will be very painful for a minority of us to regain the safe shore of a sustainable balance between our consumptions and the resources of the Earth.


    I think, that one of the main task of future historians will be to find and unmask these sirens. The big, older and hot one, as well as the small, younger and cold will be mentioned on the same pages of their books.

    This was another interesting presentation held at ICCF24.


    The distinguished and prominent speaker explains when he became interested in the CF/LENR field: "Like many others, I'd followed these debates about cold fusion for a while after 1989. But it dropped off my radar. And then in 2011, just at the right moment to coincide with my new interest in risk, and the culture of science, it caught my attention again."


    He didn't mention who he was who caught his attention again, but the large blue container on a later slide is an unmistakable signature of him.


    Keeping the 1 MW Ecat image on the background, the speaker told the ICCF24 audience: "Back to Cold Fusion. I wrote my first public piece about it in 2015. By that point. as I said, I thought it was one of those low probability high impact cases where there might be a high cost to a false negative. […] That first piece from 2015 attracted some attention in the field and I got to know a few of you".


    Well, in the same year, the big blue container also attracted huge amounts of money from many investors, who, a few years later, had the opportunity to experience what kind of high cost could come from a "low probability high impact" dream like that.


    Further on, the speaker better explained his proposal: "… we should be engineering the incentive structure in the light of a rational assessment of the possible costs of false negatives."


    I wonder if, in his rational assessment of existential risks, he also considered the certain huge costs of false hopes.

    A few years back I was invited to make a presentation at Cambridge University on the 'Reputation Trap' in LENR research.

    Was it on the occasion of the publication of an essay (1) in which the author substantially parifies Rossi&Focardi's claims with F&P's, wondering why "Rossi gets little serious attention"?

    Quote

    Nobody at this well-attended meeting (with a very distinguished audience) disputed that the problem existed, in fact, one of them, a US Nobel Prize-winner told me about his own experiences of the problem.

    Was it the Nobel laureate who supported the reality of Rossi's claims for many years? And who published a video (2) in which he denounces "the deafening silence of scientific and other media, in regard to what may well be the most important technological advance of the century", referring to the "generators based on the Rossi reactor, first demonstrated in January 2011, [which] are already under construction"?


    Well, in case I agree with you. The scientific community should have paid much more attention in analyzing the claims of F&P and those of Rossi and Focardi, and should have given them all the prominence they deserve. But there is still time to do so.


    (1) https://aeon.co/essays/why-do-…ossibility-of-cold-fusion

    (2) https://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/1150242

    I don't understand why you consider me an advocate of hot fusion. Can you find just one comment of mine in which I support hot fusion?


    Anyway, if you are interest to know which ICCF24 presentation is most likely to sway a skeptic, you should also consider the opinion of those L-F members you hope to sway.


    My pick coincides with yours. But are you really interested in solving the mystery of the LENR or are you just hoping that this field continues to be funded regardless of the reality of the claimed results?


    If NAVSEA and DARPA are really interested in giving a solution to the LENR field issues, they just need to implement the program reported on the third slide of Barham presentation at ICCF24, and provide a definitive answer to the question posed by McKubre: "what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons' claims? "


    To do this they only have to submit the papers and videos of the experiments performed by F&P in 1992 to a number of "academics from top research universities", and ask for their independent assessment of these evidences.


    If, on the contrary, they are more interested in being present at ICCFs for the next decades, as happened since 1989, then it's better for them that they keep citing Fleischmann and Pons, without looking too closely at the results of their experiments.

    I welcome this pick. Barham's presentation, describing the HIVER program, currently appears to be the most authoritative effort to solve the LENR mystery, and undoubtedly the agencies involved, NAVSEA and DARPA, have a chance to solve it in a short time. If they want to.


    The third slide is the most important. It takes up the LENR field issues, primarily the "Lack of acceptance of thermal (heat) results". The first problem, "many calorimeter design", can be easily solved, just by focusing on the most representative of these designs. Which one? Well, the answer is suggested directly by the first page of the McKubre paper shown on the upper-right corner of the same slide: "Cold fusion: comments on the state of scientific proof". This summary reads:

    Quote

    From https://brillouinenergy.com/ne…e-of-scientific-proof.pdf


    Early criticisms were made of the scientific claims made by Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons in 1989 on their observation of heat effects in electrochemically driven palladium–deuterium experiments that were consistent with nuclear but not chemical or stored energy sources. These criticisms were premature and adverse. In the light of 25 years further study of the palladium–deuterium system, what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons’ claims?


    This summary is still valid, apart from the numbers of years which in the meantime has gone from 25 to 30+. It confirms that F&P's claims are still at the center of the entire CF/LENR controversy: "what is the state of proof of Fleischmann and Pons’ claims?"


    McKubre complains that "criticisms were premature and adverse", but in his paper he mentions only the F&P article published in JEC in 1989. It's reasonable that, at that time, the 3 years spent by the two electrochemists studying their cells, were too short a period of time to properly investigate such a new phenomenon, even considering that they did it by spending only their own savings.


    However, three years later, in 1992, F&P's experiments were much more mature and well funded. They had a well equipped and brand new laboratory in France. Therefore the experiments carried out by F&P in that year are the best candidates to solve the first issue listed in the 3rd slide presented at ICCF24 by the NAVSEA-DARPA initiative.


    In conclusion, Barham's presentation at ICCF24 is an excellent candidate to influence the opinion of a LENR skeptic, provided that the program reported in the third slide is implemented in a coherent way, starting from the evaluation of the calorimetric issues of the F&P experiments carried out in 1992.

    ... You are saying hundreds of experts did an experiment measuring heat, first done by Michael Faraday. Their calibrations and blanks all matched Faraday's result. They got hundreds of positive results exceeding Faraday, listed by Storms and others. You are saying that every single positive result was a mistake. A mistake they never found, despite their proven skills and knowledge.


    This is absurd, but suppose they only got it right a hundred times. That would still mean the effect is real.

    This is a totally wrong and unscientific statement!

    McKubre was much more correct in his presentation last year at ICCF23:


    Quote

    From: RE: What should we do next ? - A relevant question from Matt Trevithick :


    "d. Until an experiment is reproducible more-or-less at will, producing more-or-less the same results (including magnitude and timing) more-or-less every time then we cannot know that is real and fully under our control."

    So, if you have hundreds, thousands, or even millions of not replicable claims you can't say that the effect is real. All you can say is that many people have gotten and published a lot of possible false positive results.


    You need at least one replicable experiment to say that an effect is real. For McKubre, in the CF/LENR, there is only one experiment which has been properly replicated:

    Quote

    From: RE: What should we do next ? - A relevant question from Matt Trevithick :


    "b. As far as I am aware Lonchampt and his team were and are the only group ever to attempt an exact engineering replication of the original Fleischmann Pons experiment."

    Therefore, up to now, the only CF/LENR experiments which can be considered by a scientific PoV are those mentioned by McKubre in the ICCF23 slide. All the rest, including his own experiments, can be ignored, because they have not been properly repicated.

    Are you playing the skeptic's game of looking at one result at a time, while ignoring all others?

    This is not the "skeptic's game", but exactly what you suggested to THH a few years ago when he asked "How could LENR be disproved?":

    Quote

    From RE: How many times has the Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heating Event been replicated in peer reviewed journals?

    That's obvious! You just show there is a mistake in an experiment, and out it goes.

    […]

    Do that for every major study and hey-presto, cold fusion is gone. Dead as Polywater.

    On the contrary, it seems that your are playing the game of changing your mind according to the convenience of the moment.


    Anyway, too bad that THH keeps wasting his time by inconclusively addressing his objections to several CF/LENR experiments all at once, instead of following your wise suggestion to focus his attention on one experiment at a time.


    As you pointed out, it makes no sense to just say "someone somewhere may have made some sort of mistake". There is no need to be so elusive. F&P, the pioneers of CF, have made huge and well-defined mistakes in their … well, I'm not allowed to mention it in this thread, but it's not difficult to find where.

    In more detail, I was young (about 9) and had read about electrolysis a bit and thought that making some gasses would be neat. Without much thought, I filled a 2 quart jar about 80% full of water and cut a two prong AC electrical cord off of something, separated the bare wire ends, stripped some insulation off (about 3/4 inch each) and twisted the wire strands tight. I plopped the wire end in the jar of water, so that the two wire leads were about 2 inches apart, sort of coiling and lumping the wire so it stayed in place. (This was test one). I plugged in the plug end into the electrical outlet, and was satisfied that each wire had a nice stream of bubbles.


    I didn’t care that the gasses would be mixed at that time, since I wasn’t capturing it yet. I needed a diode or two for that to be done properly and hadn’t torn something electrical apart to get some yet.


    After about 20 minutes I checked the jar and it was bubbling well, although the water was now a bit pale blue-green. I then almost promptly forgot about it. I came back a half hour later and now the water was boiling vigorously, but enough had evaporated and been electrolysized away that it wasn’t splashing out of the jar. The green-blue colour was stronger, and there was a deposit of pale blue green powder on the jar where it wasn’t wet, so I thought it would be neat to let the water finish electroly-boil away and see what the powder was all about. I foolishly forgot about it again (a virtual death trap to anyone that might happen upon it), for about another hour when a bright flash from the bathroom caught my eye.


    The jar was now well boiled out, and the scum near the bottom of the jar had made a weird “sculpture” lattice formed by the current, bubbles, minerals etc., and it was glowing bright incandescent white-orange. I pulled the plug from the wall, the glass shattered, and I cleaned up the glass and mess from bathroom before my parents got home and discovered any of it.

    Thank you. Very interesting indeed. We don't know how many years ago this happened, but you have really a good memory anyway, or this fact struck you a lot.


    Too bad you kept it a secret instead of organizing a press conference, otherwise you could have been eligible for a Nobel Prize and possibly become the youngest Nobel laureate ever! :)


    Out of the joke. Your test is not very similar to the one proposed by Alan Smith. I don't know if you continued to cultivate your passion for electrochemistry or if you stopped it after that misadventure. In case, do you now have a couple of diodes, a multimeter and some free time to replicate, on your kitchen table and in the safest way, something a little bit more similar to the F&P open cell experiment?

    Which is when the KEF supports melted.

    Absolutely not, if you mean that supports have melted after the complete boil-off of the cells. What evidence do you have to say this?


    Concluding the "Simplicity Paper", F&P wrote two consecutive sentences, separated by a semicolon: "following the boiling to dryness and the open-circuiting of the cells, the cells nevertheless remain at high temperature for prolonged periods of time, Fig 8;" and, immediately after, "the Kel-F supports of the electrodes at the base of the cells melt so that the local temperature must exceed 300ºC."


    The first sentence is completely wrong. If you want to know why, just check the position of the vertical arrow on Fig.8, as I have suggested to you several times.


    The second sentence is not strictly connected to the previous one. This is a separate observation, in which F&P reported that some supports (they don't specify which of the four) showed some signs of melting, but unfortunately they never provided any picture to document these melts and their extent. In any case, they could have seen these signs only after the conclusions of the experiment, after having removed the salt deposited on the electrodes and their supports. Therefore no one knows when these melts (if any) occurred. In case, these melts could have occurred when voltage (and power) was at its maximum and the residual electrolyte was a thin layer of liquid at the bottom of the cell.

    Not quite it would seem. AC not DC, tap water not D2O + LiOD - as for the input current, let's see,

    Actually, you had asked for a "kitchen table experiment" with light water (1).

    As for other details, I hope Paradigmnoia will let us know, so we will see the differences with respect to your requests.


    Anyway, I feel I can predict since now that there will be a big difference: his electrodes will have started cooling right after the complete boil-off of water, as actually happened in F&P's "1992 boil-off experiment".


    (1) RE: Where is the close-up video of Fleischmann and Pons boiling cell?

    The idea that putting a resistive layer over a Pd electrode makes it hot is unusual to say the least.. How about coating it with epoxy - would that heat it up?

    Well, THH forgot to specify that, once the resistive layer is deposited onto the cathode, the electrolytic current necessarily flows through it, so that most of the voltage drop occurs across this deposits and consequently, for the well known joule effect, most of the electric power (up to 50 W ) is dissipated in this layer and can heat the cathode up to even 300 °C and locally melt the plastic support.