Posts by can

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

The 15 kW is a bit of a surprise to me as this conflicts with numbers given by Holmlid's paper "Existing Source for Muon-Catalyzed Nuclear Fusion Can Give Megawatt Thermal Fusion Generator".

For comparison: the central gas heater in my Dutch home has a nominal power output of 22 kW.

Looks like they did not want to include power caused by meson decay although this design includes a 'muon thermalizer'.

This does not look like a wise promotion.

That paper mentions too a starting 15 kW output power, excluding the energy from the initial mesons (eq. 5, section V).

https://www.tandfonline.com/do…080/15361055.2018.1546090

But then Holmlid also states that the power of the decay of the initial mesons would be 220 kW (eq. 7), which on a first sight doesn't make the complications from having to deal with tritium to reach higher outputs (slowly over time) very attractive. Also, protium (ordinary hydrogen) would work too, as even the latest paper on the interstellar rocket points out.

...unless producing tritium in large amounts is actually the point.

I just noticed Norront have put a page on their website about a "Powerplant MK1"

http://www.norrontfusion.com/m…talysed-fusion-powerplant

Rob Woudenberg

It seems they are considering an ideal scenario where the hypothetical interstellar rocket could be engineered so that that high-energy particles emitted by the reaction—possibly also those decaying at some distance from the laser target—could advantageously reflect off thick layers of H(0) and still contribute to the thrust.

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Many of the particles formed can penetrate far through normal materials, thus an equal number of particles may be ejected in all directions giving no directed thrust. The simple inherent solution to this is to see to that thick layers of ultra-dense hydrogen are formed on the target which prevents the penetration by reflecting the mesons from these layers. This effect was studied for ions in Refs. [25].

A more detailed definition of repeatability is needed.

A researcher might consider an experiment repeatable if he's able to consistently reproduce the results with the materials and equipment employed.

This however does not imply that a complete enough understanding of the parameters and processes involved has been achieved to ensure that other people will also be able to reproduce the same experiments with reasonable effort, or even that the original researcher is able to reproduce the experiment with different materials (batches) and equipment.

I don't think Holmlid is going to cite Mills. Also the patent office seems to want independent studies about ultra-dense hydrogen or well-accepted theoretical studies justifying its existence, not similar aggregates that could themselves be regarded as not independently confirmed.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

Good find. This seems to be more severe. Holmlid's references are mainly to his own publications.

Maybe the first publication of Holmlid on UDH/UDD contains some independent references.

I think he might try submitting related works by independent authors on the superconducting properties of hydrogen clusters in porous materials like Pd, or theoretical studies pointing out that hydrogen could form a quantum material similar to what has been observed with UDH, but if the patent office wants fully independent studies on ultra-dense hydrogen H(0) (and nothing else) written by authors who are not or have not been Holmlid's coauthors, then I'm afraid that such studies don't exist yet.

Perhaps some works by Hora–Prelas–Miley could support Holmlid's (from the EPO's point of view), but the occasionally cited "inverted Rydberg matter" description is not up to date anymore with Holmlid's latest thinking.

A couple examples:

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…18/07/234_JCMNS-Vol13.pdf

https://mospace.umsystem.edu/x…esentation.pdf;sequence=1

The actual document from the EPO register describes more in detail what's their problem with the application.

https://register.epo.org/appli…870991&lng=en&tab=doclist

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

Not only interesting, but also worrisome. This could draw interest of (nuclear) defense industry.

It's probably related to the potential avalanche effects I pointed out earlier.

The same property could also mean that it will be difficult to put together—on Earth at least—the material in large enough amounts to have dangerous or very large-scale uses, although there's no limit to human imagination and various parameters and conditions could influence this like they do for the critical mass of fissionable materials.

Regardless of this, many entities would certainly be interested in attempt producing what essentially is antimatter:

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[...] This annihilation-like method is well studied in the laboratory and gives initially fast kaons and pions from protons or deuterons by annihilation-like processes. We use the phrase annihilation-like since the practical evidence and use is more important for its characterization than the claim inherent in the strict nomenclature without the -like. The necessary antimatter used is concluded to be formed by oscillations of the quasi-neutrons [4,5] initially formed in the ultra-dense hydrogen by laser-induced processes from spin state s = 2 to s = 1 [4].

(from section 1 in the paper, which also explains why they call the processes annihilation-like)

Funding difficulties might have many reasons, but one could be that it does not look complicated enough, given that on the surface it employs relatively affordable lasers and industrial catalysts, and that experiments are reportedly already ongoing in various laboratories. Possible investors might wonder why despite this there are no applications or even just demonstration units yet (i.e. "too good to be true"), while others might decide that they don't need to fund other companies and try instead to look on the subject on their own.

From section 4 in any case it sounds as if a possibly difficult to solve issue, more than producing it, is collecting enough ultra-dense hydrogen in a single place, which according to Holmlid's latest patent application makes releasing energy from it easier/more efficient. However, excessive accumulation "could give uncontrolled energy and radiation release". I found this interesting.

By the way, I'm wondering if this paper in preparation (Ref. 30) will give a final answer on the catalysts.

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L. Holmlid, A. Kotarba and P. Stelmachowski, “Function of the Solid Catalyst Used for Production of Ultra-dense Hydrogen H(0)”. (in preparation).

From this latest manuscript is still seems that the preferred catalysts are the usual ones.

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The catalysts needed for producing the ultra-dense hydrogen H(0) from hydrogen gas are made of base metals like iron and chromium [28,29] in oxidized form with alkali metal (for example potassium) as promoter [30]. These materials should be available in most star systems on asteroids and small planets with solid surfaces with a close example of Mars (the red iron oxide planet), if the catalyst becomes contaminated, or deactivated [31] for other reasons, and has to be replaced.

References 28-31:

• Muhler M, Schlögl R, Ertl G. The nature of the iron oxide-based catalyst for dehydrogenation of ethylbenzene to styrene 2. Surface chemistry of the active phase. Journal of Catalysis. 1992 Dec 1;138(2):413-44. https://doi.org/10.1016/0021-9517(92)90295-S
• Kotarba A, Barański A, Hodorowicz S, Sokołowski J, Szytuła A, Holmlid L. Stability and excitation of potassium promoter in iron catalysts–the role of KFeO 2 and KAlO 2 phases. Catalysis letters. 2000 Jul 1;67(2-4):129-34. https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1019013504729 (also on Researchgate)
• L. Holmlid, A. Kotarba and P. Stelmachowski, “Function of the Solid Catalyst Used for Production of Ultra-dense Hydrogen H(0)”. (in preparation).
• Meima GR, Menon PG. Catalyst deactivation phenomena in styrene production. Applied Catalysis A: General. 2001 Apr 30;212(1-2):239-45. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0926-860X(00)00849-8

Also related:

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The most suitable future storage medium will probably be an assembly of thin metallic or graphitic films. H(0) can be stored most easily at temperatures of a few hundred K, and at pressures from zero to a few bars. Since H(0) is easily produced from hydrogen gas in contact with a suitable catalyst [29,30], it will best be produced in the laser drives in the rockets when needed. Large-scale storage as H(0) is not recommended since the spontaneous nuclear reactions taking place in H(0) [32] could give uncontrolled energy and radiation release.

Speaking of papers, here's a freshly published one with Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen as a co-author:

Future interstellar rockets may use laser-induced annihilation reactions for relativistic drive

Leif Holmlid, Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.actaastro.2020.05.034

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Abstract: Interstellar probes and future interstellar travel will require relativistic rockets. The problem is that such a rocket drive requires that the rocket exhaust velocity from the fuel also is relativistic, since otherwise the rocket thrust is much too small: the total mass of the fuel will be so large that relativistic speeds cannot be reached in a reasonable time and the total mass of the rocket will be extremely large. Until now, no technology was known that would be able to give rocket exhaust at relativistic speed and a high enough momentum for relativistic travel. Here, a useful method for relativistic interstellar propulsion is described for the first time. This method gives exhaust at relativistic speeds and is a factor of at least one hundred better than normal fusion due to its increased energy output from the annihilation-like meson formation processes. It uses ordinary hydrogen as fuel so a return travel is possible after refuelling almost anywhere in space. The central nuclear processes have been studied in around 20 publications, which is considered to be sufficient evidence for the general properties. The nuclear processes give relativistic particles (kaons, pions and muons) by laser-induced annihilation-like processes in ultra-dense hydrogen H(0). The kinetic energy of the mesons is 1300 times larger than the energy of the laser pulse. This method is superior to the laser-sail method by several orders of magnitude and is suitable for large spaceships.

Holmlid does make a distinction between what he calls ordinary fusion processes (e.g. D+D) and those which calls annihilation-like. Both can apparently occur spontaneously (on their own, without an deliberate energy input) at a low rate, but the hard-to-capture meson reactions seem to "dominate".

https://iopscience.iop.org/art…02-4896/ab1276#psab1276s8

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8. Nuclear processes in H(0)

Nuclear processes exist in H(0), both in p(0) and D(0). These processes are not only fusion processes (of course only existing in D(0)), but other types of nuclear processes in fact dominate. Both laser-induced and spontaneous processes have been studied. These processes cannot be described as fusion reactions since they do not give the products expected from normal nuclear reactions. Instead, they much more resemble annihilation reactions from their product spectrum (Klempt et al 2005). They thus seem to belong to a novel type of nuclear reaction which may be directly coupled to the transformation of quarks inside the nuclei. Such experiments have not been performed by any other research group, and it is thus not possible to give any references to other studies. [...]

Further below in the text he writes, in reference also to past experiments:

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8.2. Heat generation

Several different types of high-energy particles are generated by the laser-pulse interaction in H(0), as described above. Most of these particles are penetrating and do not stop close to the laser target. To test the possibility of local heat generation despite this, an experiment was designed with an enclosure (copper cylinder) around the laser target with H(0) (Holmlid 2015c). The temperature of the enclosure was measured during experiments with variable laser energy and gas pressure. Only D2 gas was used to optimize the heat generation by giving the possibility of D + D fusion. Thus, the results may be due to nuclear fusion and not only due to (at that time) unknown annihilation-like nuclear processes. Even under these conditions when most high-energy particles could not be contained in the enclosure, an excess heat was observed in the copper cylinder (Holmlid 2015c). The fact that high-energy particles left the enclosure was also described in this report. The results show clearly that excess heat can be generated by the laser impact on D(0), partly due to nuclear fusion, and that further energy generating processes giving even higher energy exist.

The nuclear fusion processes in D(0) had been studied in another publication previous to the heat measurements. That study was done by TOF measurements using a PMT for sensitive particle measurements (Olofson and Holmlid 2014b). All particles involved in D + D fusion processes were detected but T which indeed was expected to react on forming 4He in the end. Of course, neutrons could not be detected by the PMT detector. Collisional processes of several emitted particles with the small D4(0) clusters were also detected. Thus, background information that fusion indeed took place under the conditions used for the heat measurements existed in Olofson and Holmlid (2014b) prior to the heat generation experiments in Holmlid (2015c).

Here is a vertical scale detail of the last few steps, also showing possible modifications to the graph styling:

Rob Woudenberg

From what I understand, a possible reason for bothering with D+D muon-catalyzed fusion could be that the precursor mesons are difficult to capture efficiently before they decay to muons. In a calorimetric study in 2015 where a thick copper cylinder was used, this seemed to be a problem. https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.4928572 (open access)

This issue was also cited in https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.4928109 (paywalled)

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In our thermal (calorimetric) laser-induced fusion experiments in D(0) (in press), a substantial fraction of the total particle energy from the fusion process was not measurable. It was leaking out in an unidentified way, apparently as penetrating particles but not as neutrons. A search was then initiated to identify gamma radiation or other high-energy particles. This resulted in detection of very intense beta-like energy spectra and line spectra due to muons. It appears likely that many small-scale fusion test systems emit muons, and it is thus important to understand how to selectively detect muons with high sensitivity. Progress in this direction is now reported.

But since then, Holmlid has changed his ideas a bit on the beta-like processes observed from the muons, i.e. they are not (mainly, at least) due to muon capture processes: https://www.researchgate.net/p…by_lepton_pair-production

Holmlid has sometimes mentioned that the superfluid H(0) efficiently collects energy from the environment and external stimuli, even indirectly. For example here (but also in previously published papers): https://www.researchgate.net/p…by_lepton_pair-production

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The effect of the laser photons has been studied in numerous laser-induced time-of-flight experiments [11,12,14,15,16]. Since H(0) is superfluid [42,43], the laser light does not have to directly hit the material at the place of meson ejection. Instead, long-range energy transport is possible in this material.

Rob Woudenberg

Perhaps having the chamber coated with materials and at temperatures where the H(0) produced is not superfluid could help:

https://doi.org/10.1063/1.4947276

Polymer and amorphous-material barriers also seem to work towards constricting/limiting superfluid H(0) flow along selected areas:

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.4729078

Their usage was also discussed in Holmlid's patent applications.

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2680271A1/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2018093312A1/en

However it's not clear to me if to produce the non-superfluid H(0) one needs it to be at least initially in a superfluid form, or in other words if conditions which would prevent superfluid H(0) to form would prevent all types of H(0) from forming at all. There appears to be such suggestion in the general review posted last year.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1402-4896/ab1276

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A magnetic field stronger than 0.05 T prevents the formation of H(0) (Andersson et al 2012). Thus the formation of the chain clusters is inhibited by the magnetic field. Since these clusters possibly are involved in the formation of the small clusters H3(0) and H4(0), the density of small clusters may also decrease strongly in a magnetic field.

(the chain clusters are the superfluid ones)

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

Dusty catalysts can of course also be formed in other ways to avoid two effects at the same time.

Lots of unexplored technologies will still need to be developed to build a failproof and well controllable industrial reactor based on this.

Although Q-switched pulsed lasers like the one employed by Holmlid and colleages very efficiently bore through metals and non-metals sputtering material around in the process, perhaps with pulsed RF/microwaves application in a resonant chamber similar to the one conceived by George Egely (but sealed with hydrogen at a reduced pressure < 1 mbar) one could also form large amounts of catalytically active dust from suitable precursor materials. A focused pulsed laser could still be needed for triggering the UDH formed with sufficient power.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

With respect to control I am quite suprised that triggering H(0) by a laser pulse isn't causing an avalanche effect.

Holmlid has pointed this out in one of his paper I recall.

This is implied in his latest patent application: accumulating H(0) in a single place makes it easier to trigger and cause a larger signal.

However it was indeed also hinted in a past paper, eg in Spontaneous ejection of high-energy particles from ultra-dense deuterium D(0) by Holmlid and Olafsson (2015):

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A laser pulse is one type of disturbance which can initiate this process. When the process has started, it can continue until the material is depleted. This is not unlikely, since the excess energy from the fusion itself will excite other neighboring clusters which trigger the transfer to the s = 1 level, giving further nuclear processes.

Rob Woudenberg

It likely is the case. In some papers Holmlid has occasionally pointed out that hitting the catalyst directly with the laser would produce a high energy signal. I think this is typically not done as it's a destructive operation, and hitting random catalyst pieces in the vacuum chamber would probably not give very consistently reproducible results.

For example, from Direct observation of particles with energy >10 MeV/u from laser-induced fusion in ultra-dense deuterium (arXiv, 2013):

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[…] It is possible to observe even faster positive ion peaks than shown above, by using a higher laser repetition frequency of 15 Hz, or by directing the laser beam onto the catalytic emitter material in the D(-1) source. Such data are shown in Fig. 9, with the peak of the distribution at 13 ns or 14 MeV u-1. These results indicate directly that particles with energy > 10 MeV u-1 are produced by the fusion processes.

In some papers he's put catalyst pieces on the laser target together with small samples of noble metals, to help maintaining there a layer of D(0). This is in later experiments where a plate or foil would be the laser target instead of an empty region close to the catalyst surface.

From Charged particle energy spectra from laser-induced processes: Nuclear fusion in ultra-dense deuterium D(0) (2015, paywalled)

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The source for producing D(0) resembles a published construction [3] but operates at higher gas pressures. In the source, a potassium-doped iron oxide catalyst sample [35,36] forms D(0) from deuterium gas (99.8%) at a pressure of 0.1 mbar. The D(0) formed falls down as clusters onto a horizontal target stainless steel plate below the source. On the target, small pieces of the iron oxide catalyst and Ir metal help to maintain a layer of D(0).

Alan Smith

They might or might have been looking for better or faster working catalysts, but the typical extruded pellet shape makes me think that at least at the time of the photos they were still using pre-made K-Fe2O3 catalysts for their experiments. Both Sveinn Ólafsson in Iceland and Norront in Norway have expertise in film deposition techniques which seem in general better/more precise methods for obtaining good catalytically-active materials.

In the previously published review a method which appeared to work well was vaporizing catalyst pellet material with the pulsed laser, producing a catalytically-active, sputtered K-Fe oxide dust and very large (visible, even) amounts of Rydberg matter in the hydrogen-filled chamber. The process didn't seem to take weeks of time, only about an hour.

https://doi.org/10.1088/1402-4896/ab1276

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[...] One type of dense matter observation may however be close to continuous H(0). Under the conditions of interest, the vacuum chamber is filled with a visible mist, probably of H(l) RM. Such a mist is formed after an hour or so of direct laser impact on catalyst pieces with the hydrogen gas pressure in the mbar range. This can be seen in figure 16 using D2 gas. Note the visible cloud that scatters the white light generated by the interaction of the IR laser with D(0). It is then also possible to observe small laser-initiated particles glowing with white light for a few seconds in the deuterium atmosphere. They move with a velocity of a few m s−1 and can collide and bounce from surfaces inside the apparatus while glowing continuously. This can be seen in a small video attached with one frame shown in figure 17. It is likely that these particles consist of D(0) and that the process giving the white light is the condensation of hydrogen RM D(l) onto the particle of D(0), as discussed further below.

Rob Woudenberg

A catalyst pellet hanging from above also appears to be visible in Figure 5a, but it's dark and difficult to make out unless you know what you're looking at.

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The gas, catalyst holder and gas feeding line are shown in figure 5. The gas flows through the catalyst and excites Hydrogen to Hydrogen Rydberg Matter.

[...] FIG. 5. Catalyst sample holder and Ta foil laser target and imaged laser spot during measurement.

I think this is replicating Holmlid's 2011 experiment.

Rob Woudenberg

Photo 9b in the paper shows, in Sveinn Ólafsson's "conductivity cell" in his Iceland laboratory, what looks like a piece of extruded K-Fe2O3 catalyst pellet (see arrow).

A similar setup was shown in part in Ólafsson's ICCF21 presentation, with a brown-green -looking pellet of similar size. The source image was already cropped in the presentation; I further cropped it to 16:9 proportions.