What do you think politicians do? See also http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvsy8
As I've said before you have no idea of the difficulties Rossi was facing. I'm sure he has had to do some things he was not proud of.
Come off it! What compulsion was he under to lie about having sold 3 ecats, and about having a customer for the "heat" produced by the so-called 1MW plant?
You think you know and have said so so many times I've long lost count, , but I also looked at the data and didn't consider it proven that it didn't work.
Oh? why not?
So I should assume you are lying, right? Or is it just Rossi should be considered a liar?
But the Rossi IS a liar. A self-admitted liar - just see the court papers. It may be he sometimes tells the truth, but how are we to know?
This is true. Rossi is extremely humble and meek about his stupendous accomplishments. He will just put his creation out there for all to see: "look at this dude"
The Rossi
Meek. Humble.
LOL
AH, so you assume every peer reviewed, published paper is wrong. You are not far wrong according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvsy8
The AGW fanatics claim anyone questioning their IPCC dogma should be brought to trial.
Science is currently in a very pathetic state. So climate scientists can't be scientists, right?
Rubbish. Science always abounds with controversy; but science today is also remarkably productive.
Well, it beats me. The Rossi claims to have a partner already, and he must have the experimental data to support his "five sigma" claim.
So why the blue blazes does he need the dog'n'pony show? With all due respect to all concerned, can any attendees credibly be described as opinion leaders or influencers? Why does he not simply go full throttle for a Magnificence of automated production instead of faffing about?
Looks like an ego trip to me
The term "hero" comes from the ancient Greeks. For them, a hero was a mortal who had done something so far beyond the scope of human effort. The hero left an immortal memory behind him when he was no more. The hero was worshiped like the gods. He joined them in their pantheon. The hero is a great benefactor of humankind: Hercules, the monster killer; Asclepius, the first doctor; Dionysus, the creator of Greek fraternities. Heroes were always extraordinary; to be a hero was to expand people's sense of what was possible for a human being.
Today, we still call heroes those whom we admire and wish to emulate. But still the concept retains that original link to possibility. We need heroes first and foremost because our heroes help define the limits of our aspirations. We largely define our ideals by the heroes we choose, and our ideals -- things like courage, honor, and accomplishment -- largely define us. Our heroes are symbols for us of all the qualities we would like to possess and all the ambitions we would like to satisfy. A person can choose Martin Luther King or Susan B. Anthony. Our heros still embrace human excellence. And because the ideals to which we aspire do so much to determine the ways in which we behave, we all have a vested interest in each person having heroes, and in the choice of heroes each of us makes.
LENR needs a hero, someone to be emulated and act a template for excellence, accomplisment and caring. We need Rossi as our hero.
Yeah, well. You shouldn't quote without attribution; and you missed out a bit, to wit " But people who had committed unthinkable crimes were also called heroes; Oedipus and Medea, for example, received divine worship after their deaths as well."
I for one would like Paradigmnoia to piece together a model of the QuarkX on the basis of statements that Rossi has made and photos that have been released.
Does anyone have a description of the specific experiment that has putatively reached 5 sigma, or a p-value of 3e-7? Going along with Rossi for the sake of argument, what would the sample size need to be?
Pointless query, if I may say so. Signor Rossi does not use the term 5 sigma (or sigma 5) in its common sense of being a measure of unlikelihood of a given event being sheerly random. He has not and cannot have done the number of tests needed to justify using such a measure.
Mind you, we have yet to be informed exactly what he means in his personal and idiosyncratic use of the term
Display MoreI can imagine. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvsy8 if you haven't already.
My view of the situation is different from yours. At this time Rossi is not trying to get money from the demo. That would not be the place for an investor to do due diligence anyway.
He thinks nothing will protect his IP and he is probably right. He knows much more about it than we do. The patent situation is messed up as I've commented on earlier. What you are suggesting would give it away.
Only time will tell who is right.
At some point, an inventor with IP but no money for development has to bite the bullet. Sell the IP? License it? Or just keep it secret for fear someone might steal it? The successful inventors I mentioned bit that bullet - they demonstrated technology without revealing essential IP; then licensed or sold said IP. In each case the inventors made money; in two cases a LOT of money. There was never any dispute over IP once agreements were signed
One can certainly demonstrate one's technology convincingly without revealing IP. Of course, once a patent is filed, the IP is revealed. Goes with the territory, and in general patents are respected.
Rossi's apparent position wrt IP is inexplicable to me. Well, not totally inexplicable if he has nothing in the first place. Which is what the balance of evidence points to at present.
Display MoreNobody knows just what will happen, as is obvious from the various forecasts that it won't take place at all. Or the meaningless disdain of the cliche "dog & paony show."
I don't know either but think it likely that you will see the E-Cat QX produce 20 Watts, with various periods of self sustain, for the period you are there. I hope he has made a new power pack that doesn't draw much power when it is not powering the reactor, or you will just be shown the power output of the power pack, not the input. That would provide the ascetics with a field day.
Rossi says he will not release details until he is ready for mass production. I think it will take at least two years to produce a reliable, tested, commercial version. Rossi will probably sound more optimistic.
The real puzzle is why he is holding the demo at all. I suspect it is partly to offset the bad publicity from the Dorval affair and also to start marketing. There would not be much point in developing an automated plant if there are not ready customers for the output.
Contrary to many here, I find Rossi is taking an intelligent business route. Presumably we will know more after the 24th.
Writing as a reasonably successful business man in (biological) science based areas, and as an assessor of applications for science projects seeking grants of public money towards commercialisation, I disagree.
The INTELLIGENT business route is to get your technology to a point where it can be CONVINCINGLY demonstrated to interested parties who have enough expertise in the field to ask intelligent questions; by which I mean you must be able to persuade people that you can back up your claims. So if you are claiming to have a device that can produce energy or power at a level significantly significantly greater than the level of any input, you should be able to satisfy queries as to how input and output are measured without fudging matters and you should be prepared to measure these openly and by methods generally agreed to be adequate.
I speak from experience here - if you get defensive and angry when your methods or set-up are queried, you are waving a huge red flag to potential investors. I have turned down a number of technologies because I had basic technical queries that were unanswered and/or caused "inventor meltdown". The passage of time has shown that none of these - not one - was ever successful in moving to further development, let alone commercialisation.
OTOH, I have backed a few that have been, indeed are, successful. In every case the inventors were very cooperative - indeed proactive - in answering questions and solving problems. And in every case NDAs and IP rights were respected
Signor Rossi's regrettable history of not listening to people who suggest ways of making his work more convincing, and of throwing tantrums when he thinks his devices are likely to be too closely examined, are not going to predispose any potential partner in his favour.
A DPS type demonstration will merely feed Rossi's ego, and leave the important questions unanswered.
It thus seems an inescapable conclusion that Signor Rossi's planned QuarkX event is, in fact, planned as a dog and pony show.
Not that there's anything illegal or immoral about that - Signor Rossi has the same rights that we all have to try to attract attention and/or investment to our inventions (provided he gives honest information) - but there's no harm in calling it what it is in common English usage
Yes of course it makes total sense that people with a high level of scientific education would debate daily for hours on end what they think is bogus, pathological science, hokum, woowoo etc. After all, they don't have studies to perform, we all know that Science has reached its conclusion, because what cannot be proven theoretically doesn't exist, and theoretical knowledge is complete, because stuff that would question its completion, simply doesn't exist! just look at LENR : a whooping decades-long nothingburger with an extra serving of nothing. This is not circular reasoning: ask any serious member here (that is, not one of the kookoo LENR-believers), they have thousands upon thousands of posts explaining all this. Too bad Science is over, otherwise they would put their powerful minds to further human knowledge. Alas! it has reached its end. And they're doing us all a service, spending all this time telling us that there's nothing there, otherwise people might be fooled into thinking there's something about LENR. That would be catastrophic!
Flat Earth fora and blogs are overcrowded with high level physicists spending hours daily telling that the earth isn't flat, you are so right about that. Therefore, it is very logical that LENR-forum is also populated with high-level scientific types spending hours every day telling either that Rossi is a scammer who successfully mass-hypnotized investors and scientists over the course of 10 years, or that "LENR isn't real lol", by random Pathoskeptic Joe / Likes Received: 3240 / Posts: 2853
Sorry - do you have a point to make?
Well that's really heartening, it only took you 1690 or so posts to lose interest in Rossi. Yet, you're still posting about him
The social engineering going on on this forum is hilarious. The most verbose of the posters repeat ad nauseam that Rossi is a scammer and that there's nothing to see so move along, and they all have 1k+ posts repeating exactly that, with the bonus option of "LENR is a giant nothingburger, it's not even worth spending time studying it".
But it's worth spending hours daily on this very forum (and others I believe), trying to persuade others of this
Oh come on! The internet is stuffed with fora and blogs hosting small groups of people holding wildly different views and arguing ENDLESSLY about them. Not with any hope of suasion or resolution; just because they are the sort of people who like to argue. No-one here expects their opponents to change their minds - they are here for the craic. "Worth the time " has nothing to do with it.
I'm with maryyugo here. If the demo does in fact happen, there will be no unequivocal evidence of energy out being greater than energy in.
Favourite for fudging is measurement of energy input. Second favourite is crappy calorimetry/temperature measurement.
But all is well!
Sigma 5 is ever closer! Somewhat asymptotically, sure, but ever closer!
Why, we have Signor Rossi's word for it!
The gold in electronic components is in very thin coatings and is highly adherent to the base material. I don't think there is any biological process that could separate the two. It's only marginally profitable to recover the gold chemically from e-waste, and the process uses pretty nasty chemicals.
Oh, well.
Anyone expecting dispassionate accuracy and open-mindedness on an internet forum is destined to join the legions of the massively disappointed.
His "Daedalus" pieces in New Scientist were hilarious and fascinating.
It would be a mistake to think that we here have seen ALL the evidence about Signor Rossi and IH. We cannot know about evidence not published, and police do not make a habit of publicising evidence that may be used in a prosecution until the time is right.
Not that I have any great hope that Rossi will ever be in the dock, but you never know...
It's possible, I suppose, that Dewey's gnomic utterances refer to a chance that evidence has been discovered that could be the basis of a criminal fraud prosecution.
That would be satisfying!
