Rossi Explains ‘Positive or Negative’

This catch-22 arguùent is often used and looks rational.
the problem is that the first not to be rationa are the academic, the editors, the journalist...
they just don't publicsh informations.

See how 40 journals refused even to peer review the ENEA DeNinno report 41, to accept Oriani paper despite positive review?
See woodford investing 50 million and nobody react ?

As I say often the best evidence is that beside you, Sylvie Coyaud and ECN fanclub, nobody even dare to criticize what is happening in Tohoku, Airbus, Woodford, Elforsk...
critics fall flat, like fire on wet wood...

If you see journalist who don't propagate such critics, you know there is a problem.

in fact many serious people are convinced, and some are investing millions, are building LENR labs, signing agreements, visiting Rossi, discussing with Godes, but they refuse to communicate, and even when they say it in public like what I see in Milan or Neuchatel, there is no present journalist to relay the surprising news.

Assuming people are rational, money will flow and Nobel will be given is simply naivety.
It is like assuming that proving to the pope that gay parents are good parents, will make him change his position.
There will be blood before it is accepted.

Mary, you state something only based on your ignorance.

There is a report on the TEG, and nobody moaned.
That is all. your claim is just a theory, with contradicting evidence, and nothing else question to support it.
It contradict the fact that Rossi was an employee, and kept his position, kept his visa.

This is your general way to conclude, from ignorance, real ignorance or just wilful ignorance.

I can the same way insinuate that you are paid my ITER physicist to save their budgets, or by big oil (sorry shell, Amoco, SAIPEM, that is not personal) to slow E-cat emergence.
I have no evidence you are a real people, not a lobbyist , not a paid troll. This is why you can be such a paid troll!
This is an absolutely unfair attack, but it is simply what you do.

To be honest I just feel you are a conspiracy theorist, wounded by Orbo story.

The report is available in few place and the story, is what Rossi explained :
- LTI have something promising, but expensive (BiTe TEG)
- he tried to make it manufactured by subcontractant
- this did not work
- the reason is for many complex reasons linked to mechanic and material science

http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.…ry_items/Thermo(2004).pdf

Quote

LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation research by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20 percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4 percent conversion of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could increase the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power generation. In furtherance of his research, in early 2000, LTI had tests conducted at the University of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device. Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and amperage readings every 1/2 hr. The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. After this initial success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH location, Dr. Rossi returned to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating devices with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a subcontractor to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly.

Unfortunately, the Italian subcontractor was unable to provide second generation TE Devices with satisfactory power generation. Nineteen of 27 TE Devices shipped to CTC, Johnstown, PA, were incapable of generating electricity for a variety of reasons, from mechanical failure to poor workmanship. The remaining eight produced less than 1 watt of power each, significantly less than the expected 800–1000 watts each. Appendix C documents TE Device testing.

In an effort to determine, and possibly correct the reasons for TE Device failures, LTI personnel traveled to the Italian laboratory. The common theme that began to emerge was the inability to upgrade from small-scale TE modules to largescale multiple module TE Devices with large footprints. The most fundamental reason for the LTI second-generation TE Devices’ failure was the complex thermal expansion interplay among the various components. Contributing to the TE Device failure were the large number of soldered electrical connections (over 80), the inability to match the thermal expansion rates of the mono-block cooling tanks to the circuit boards and to the semiconductor materials, all within the clamp pressure or the retaining hardware in the grip of high temperature adhesives. After a month of research and observation at the Italian laboratory, it was determined that the best way to proceed would be to develop an independent laboratory in New Hampshire so that two development facilities could work at the problems from two separate locations and viewpoints. During this period of time, the Italian laboratory continued to deliver TE materials, but none that exceed the current science of TE power generation.

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Nothing abnormal for high technology innovation.
It worked at small scale in the lab after month of hard work.
When industrialized it failed miserably, and the postmortem analysis found that there was intractable problems to scale up.

This is standard story.

About funding, it seems joint proposal with CTC:

Quote

Teaming with Concurrent Technologies Corporation (CTC), LTI has secured DOD funding to identify and quantify applications and develop a model TE device for electrical generation and industrial process applications. While significant benefit is expected in this demonstration program for the DOD, the benefits of TE devices also extend into other areas, such as the power-generation and general industrial sectors.

If there is a conspiracy, you have Rossi, LTI in US too, and CTC, plus complicity in the army.

This was discussed there
The patent of Andrea Rossi about thermo-electric generator

there is a synthesis of Rossi's position... which match the report.

Reading his patent
https://www.google.com/patents/US20050028858
assembling was part of the innovation.

Quote

Thermoelectric module, comprising: a plurality of thermoelectric materials with opposed polarity connected by a first and a second conductive element wherein such thermoelectric materials are configured according to respective coating layers applied on at least one of the conductive elements.

Jus see that similar project, where key innovation is the geometry
http://energy.gov/sites/prod/f…/f8/deer09_lagrandeur.pdf

Beside that the main patent is about anisotropic BiTe(+Se+Pd) / BiTe(+Sb+Au) junction.

Quote

1-A thermoelectric module comprising:
a first thermoelectrode comprising bismuth telluride doped with selenium, wherein said first thermoelectrode has an oriented crystalline structure; and
a second thermoelectrode comprising bismuth telluride doped with antimony, wherein said second thermoelectrode has an oriented crystalline structure.
2-
The thermoelectric module according to claim 1 wherein said first thermoelectrode is further doped with palladium.

3. The thermoelectric module according to claim 1 wherein said second thermoelectrode is further doped with gold.

9-A method of producing a thermoelectrode comprising:forming a salt by combining purified bismuth and purified tellurium with at least one of selenium, palladium, antimony, and gold in a 2:3:3 stoichiometric ratio;
directionally fusing the salt to produce an oriented crystalline structure in the salt.

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In think people may understand why it is difficult.

Note that Chinese research about using layers of Au/Pd in BiTe TEG modules :
http://link.springer.com/artic…s10854-011-0306-0#/page-1

EDIT: following Colwyn advices I found this second report
http://freeenergyscams.com/wp-…moelectric-Devices-FE.pdfhttp://freeenergyscams.com/wp-…oelectric-Devices-OIT.pdf (same with colors)
with first part already included in main report, and which detail mosty the application of low grade heat recuperation though TEG.

I don't see the 3rd report, and I remember it was kept secret by free energy scam. I don't know why, he is not the kind to respect secrecy.

Mary, please apply to youself the rules you try to apply to us.

You claim US Army was fooled by a US company with the help of an Italian crook, who obtained a permanent visa after inventing a biofuel process.

please provide evidence. not inuendo, but evidence.
do you have a report about the fraud on U NH ?

the occam razor is that what is in the report is exact, coherent, that TEG failed for predictable and genuine reason, linked to mechanic, material science and other industrialization problems.
My intuition is that Rossi is creative but not the best at finishing the engineering. It seems true for E-cat that was "finished" only with the control of Darden, who is more serious (and richer, maybe this is the real key, not competence ).

moreover, this is without any importance since the technology of E-cat is proven working more or less, by the pair of report of Ferrara AND Lugano, which independently exclude any of your hypothesis, fraud, scam, delusion, complicity...

The more or less make the key of the Rossi's F9: if it works unreliably it is an industrial failure, but a scientific non-revolution (since LENR is proven it is an evolution of a "pink flamingo" scientific phenomenon).
If it works reliably, we hope the general stupidity of Ivy League and the followers will not slowdown innovation too long.

Note that like you I take Rossi Says as possibility, not as evidence. Rossi is not Mother Theresa, and as Mats Lewan report he exaggerate, refuse to admit his errors, change his mind, try to fool competitors, and seduce supporters and investors... No doubt Tom darden have greater teeth than Rossi and know that Startup spirit better than Rossi, and how to mitigate it.

Anyway like Altavista search engine, it may fail despite technology, I even predict E-cat technology will lose on the long term, for many business and engineering reasons, unless something surprising happen with Darden&co.