Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • To the WCS trolls and SPs - I realize that it is your job to continue your never ending circular arguments and trolling against those who are actually investing time, brains and resources into finding an energy source that will eliminate pollution. You support a wealthy career specialist who just wants to be famous while getting wealthy along the way. He figured out how to cut corners and get credit early on then turned that skill into a profession. The WCS took $$ and instead of using even 10% of that money to pursue CF, he went and purchased 2nd & 3rd rate rental properties in Miami FL. That is all anyone needs to know about his intentions into perpetuity. Not a single true CF researcher would have done that - most would have put all of that funding into furthering the research.

    There is no comparison with our efforts to anything that either you or your fearless professional WCS leader are doing - it is all quite the opposite really. We own the truth and you will never be able to spin or counter or rewrite history as a result. Mats bet big on the wrong horse several times too many and has no credibility in this field as a result. I understand that he is a good guy and am sorry that he has to live with that. He'll find another way forward but it will not be on WCS success.

    There is no mixed message here - you are teardown artist who just want to stain conversations and continue hating. None of you add any value anywhere. Your asymptote to nothing continues.

  • Mats is no more tarnished than Tom Darden and Andrea Rossi.

    Mats did his best to get at the truth.


    Who is tarnished is naturally quite contentious, but you should note the following.

    Woodworker's post above #3337, I quote part:

    I have followed your posts AA with great fascination, as I find them tremendously amusing and entertaining. So let me make this very clear: I have no financial, business or other interest in LENR generally or who comes up with a successful approach. I would truly love to see something come out of all this. But I am 100% convinced, beyond an iota of a shadow of a doubt, that it will not be Rossi. I am equally convinced that he is a hypocrite, a serial liar, a serial conman and a total fraud (Dr. Rossi: if you wish to sue me for defamation, my address is 1100 Broadway, Suite 5752, Redwood City, CA 94063 and if you wish to arrange for personal service, which would be required under California law,my telephone number is 818-660-9522, call me and I will arrange to meet your process server -- so bring it on). I base all of this on what was publicly filed and/or released in connection with the Rossi/IH litigation, focusing particularly on the depositions of him and his fellow crooks, all taken under penalty of perjury. Rossi lied all through his dealings with IH (I don't care if IH lied or behaved badly, I am not defending them and their conduct is not at issue with respect to Rossi's new wonder machines, so please don't try to divert attention / responsibility for Rossi thereby) and his and others depositions proved that he and they were lying.

    Accuses Rossi, directly, of being a conman and total fraud, on the basis of public documents that he cites. Woodworker is a lawyer, and makes this accusation openly in the full knowledge of libel laws. That comment is allowed on this site, because it is fair comment based on public information. Equally, Rossi would stand no chnace of winning bringing an action against woodworker: and he would not do this because it would just highlight the now documented in Court evidence real history with IH, as opposed to the different version you get from JONP.

    OTOH no-one here could make such a direct accusation against Darden. There is no evidence, so libelous statements would be against site policy and rightly struck down.

    There is no comparability between Rossi and IH on this critical issue, because Rossi has behaved openly as a fraud and IH have not. Now, it is possible to concoct theories in which IH have also behaved dishonestly but this is hidden: this is always a possibility with any corporation. Personally I don't see that, and my view is that appearances here are correct and Darden was being thoroughly philanthropic in his LENR support, and lost $10M of his own money in the process backing Rossi. You can, and should, accuse Darden and IH of making a big mistake. It was an open-hearted mistake in which they were over-optimistic and willing to back a high risk opportunity with hard cash.

    There are some here who continue to peddle the notion of some moral comparability between Darden and Rossi. It is not supported by the evidence. You cannot get much clearer evidence than that against Rossi in the IH Court case. Add that to a long history of similar technological promises without substance, and an attitude towards regulations that led to prison in Italy. As others have said it is psychologically interesting that anyone continues to support Rossi.

    And it is completely unfair and wrong that any sort of moral comparison is made between Rossi and Darden. No wonder Dewey here gets upset. I am too, and I do not know Darden personally, for me it is the abstract distortion of truth that I dislike. Dewey reads his friend's heroic (though also heroically foolish) work being rubbished, and IH, which continues to do more good for LENR research than pretty well anyone else around now, being treated as though it is the big bad enemy of LENR research.

  • Why is this debate still going on?
    If Rossi has nothing he will be forgotten by history in short time. If he has something we will learn about it in the news.

    If IH has something people won't bother to read what somebody once upon a time in this forum wrote as they will be greeted as the saviour of mankind. If they don't have anything they will stay where they are right now. Invisible und unknown to 99,999% of earth population.

    So what is all the buzz about?

  • Why is this debate still going on?

    Because there are unfortunately still technically blind people who ignore the revealed reality on the Doral "test" results and protocols and also find the famous Stock(h)olm "demonstration" convincing enough to believe in their hero and his industrial product before end of 2018. Only 60% to go to be there... ;)

  • Since there is again a lot of talking about bets and e-cat factories, does anyone know whether Rossi ever bought pizza and beer for “Barney”:

    Note, Rossi wrote this 6 years ago!

  • Because there are unfortunately still technically blind people who ignore the revealed reality on the Doral "test" results and protocols and also find the famous Stock(h)olm "demonstration" convincing enough to believe in their hero and his industrial product before end of 2018. Only 60% to go to be there...

    The Doral test was designed to get out of the contract with IH is my opinion. And to give Rossi a year of time for whatever it is he was doing in this year. And there was fraud involved against IH. But I can't help to think that Rossi was planning this whole incident the way it happened in the end.

    The Stockholm demonstration was not intended to convince anybody sceptic. There were way too many possibilities to tinker with the setup and measurements of the experiment.

    What do you mean with "Only 60% to go to be there..." ?

  • If Rossi actually had something and transferred the technology as he was required under the original IH agreement – Why wouldn’t we be seeing IH using the device they originally purchased for 1.5M. And it looks like they could make and sale E-cat devices from the license they bought for for the 1.5M and the 10M. Sure sounds like the device was found not to work. It also looks to me like IH still has the first right of refusal of any device Rossi starts to produce. They lost nothing in the suit. I know the second agreement was settled to not be in effect but I do not see where the first agreement does not hold. Either Rossi had nothing or I am missing something there.

  • Sounds like you are trying to back out. I will not agree to "reputable journal or paper." That could, by some persons' estimation, include JONP.

    Agreed that JONP will not count. I answered your previous objections earlier, for example, pointing out that UL certification was not possible . If you have other, reasonable objections, list them below. The modified bet now follows.

    "The bet is whether Rossi starts producing commercial E-Cats by 6/1/2019. That is the date I estimated he would. Proof will be either that the result is generally accepted at that date, or failing that, positive results are published in some journal (JONP doesn't count) or newspaper within the following three months. If not, it will be considered a failure. What Rossi says is not counted as proof. Also that the E-Cats have a COP >6 The amount of the bet is $50 from me vs. $500 from each of you.

    I will send Alan $50 US checks from FedEx that are undated and good indefinitely. Something Alan can confirm if need be. I will accept regular undated checks from everyone except Woodworker, who doesn't trust people here, rather than tie up your money. I will accept the Stirling equivalent if that is more convenient."

    As I commented, their should be no problem if you are right and Rossi has nothing. In that case nothing will be written about it except that he has failed.

    You well know the libel laws in America (not Sweden) would app;y as you are resident in CA.

  • Because there are unfortunately still technically blind people who ignore the revealed reality on the Doral "test" results and protocols and also find the famous Stock(h)olm "demonstration" convincing enough to believe in their hero and his industrial product before end of 2018. Only 60% to go to be there... ;)


    Once aging you have judged the situation correctly.

    The believers will continue to believe, forever, no matter what happens.

    If, in their lifetimes, Rossi produces nothing,

    this will be blamed on some kind of government conspiracy, but under no conditions, under any circumstances, will any of them ever admit to the truth,

    That they were lied to and they simply were to gullible to see thru the con.

    • Official Post

    Doesn't sound like a good bet to me since you stated Rossi would produce units, not sale them and how and by whom is the COP>6 established.

    But no matter, I do not bet.


    Yes, and also, AA argued Doral, and the Penon Final Report, as if he were 100% certain. Now he is only "10%" certain. Reminds me of:

    Sandbagging in billiards and other games (betting on Rossi for example), deliberately playing below one's actual ability in order to fool opponents into accepting higher stakes bets, or to lower one's competitive rating in order to play in a future event with a higher handicap and consequently have a better chance to win; the term has spread to ...

  • Because there are unfortunately still technically blind people who ignore the revealed reality on the Doral "test" results and protocols and also find the famous Stock(h)olm "demonstration" convincing enough to believe in their hero and his industrial product before end of 2018. Only 60% to go to be there..

    Are you taking the bet then?

  • A chance to make 10% ROI ($50 payday) is not going to attract a lot of takers. Their money will be tied up for over a year, and even then there may be some dispute that stretches it even longer.

    As I pointed out already, you don't have to put up any hard cash (except Woodworker who doesn't trust my check). So it a good return on the mail cost of sending a regular check to Alan. If you are right.

  • Are you taking the bet then?

    Seems you felt addressed by my post?

    No, I don't see such a bet would do anything good to change this whole discussion and running in circles. Rossi believers will go on to ignore any sign of doubt in their hero. Rossi has always been a master of promises and excuses when it comes to point to deliver and something he claimed did not materialize. We will see this by end of this year and by end of next year - it is simply the same pattern, since almost a decade. This is unfortunately just entertaining but doesn't add anything of value to the entire LENR research field, and no product (he could have been a billionaire and started to save the world many years ago with his certified 1MW plants...but didn't why? I am sure you can explain: because there was already an new and better and smaller and higher COP toy in the R&D pipeline...

  • Just curious, from where did you get the information that Darden lost 10 Mio US$ of his own money?

    It has been stated here (can't remember by whom, but it seemed convincing) that the first $10M given to Rossi came from Darden himself. I think the timing was before Woodford. I've lost the will to go check, and might be wrong.