Protons electrons ect.

  • Clayton,
    I do not use facebook so not sure on the background of what you are trying to do. It looks like the basis of possibly a standard OU magnetic motor. I am sure you have enough background on why that will not work. I am sure you know of the OU forum, Rexresearch and Tom Bearden OU pages.


    The study of spintronics and QED will explain the why/how of this. Many devices and compounds will maintain spin without a magnetron (think about when you magnetize a screwdriver you are aligning spin). If you want to know more I would suggest the NSF forum as they cover using magnetrons an other high frequency generators. The device shown would not adapt so not sure how to help. Please provide more info, if you want more detail. Here is a link to the current NSF forum these guys are 80% theory 20% experimenters. They show several ways to use directed microwaves and waveguides. To answer your question you need to focus the TM part of a TM/TE field checking strength using a VNA (tool for looking at field strength) to a specific area possibly using a waveguide to help. Some of this is also temperature related. So some mwave basics . I am trying not to be too technical or abstract so hope this helps.
    So we would need more info to help.

  • Its more about building an energy Atom.
    If a magnetron can create particles sush as electron and move them to a magnetic orbit plate ready to jump to a new orbit :As decay....ect
    Will they jump to a new orbit or will the Plate holding them in storge just need to keep feeding the plate its attached to.
    If a mod would post the pic here, I would appreciate.


    Maximum particeles around an artificially created Nucleus.

  • Okay,
    Maybe I still need more info. But magnetron does not create electrons. It (the maggie) works off EM principles and the flux of the B field. I think there maybe a confusion between quantum effects seen on a macro scale and classical (large scale) physics. There is in the QM world a device called the SQUID that can modify the vacuum and create particles from virtual particles (google this, it's interesting) But this is a quantum effect, does not happen in classical/standard QED. So that said.....


    Looking at the device photo, the electrons are moving though holes caused by impurities in the wire. As they move they lose energy though resistance hence the wire gets warm. Regarding maximum particles if you mean... overcoming resistance then the wire will burn through. There is a great video of someone dropping huge caps into a coil that has a coin in it. The field causes the coin to collapse to half size. Back to your photo, since it is a classical effect you can model it on a PC with some freeware.


    Back to maximum particles. Electrons are fermions (leptons) while moving they cause current, BTW if you get "too many" in one place you overcome the coulomb barrier not only would the Pauli exclusion be violated but you would have fusion. If you want to see this google Z-pinch machines that are used to confine plasma (but still not create fusion only contain it). Fusion (particle/energy exchange) happens after the coulomb barrier has been breached.

  • You need to generate the electrons so you need an antenna (cathode) usually in the center or (center of each cavity) and your plastic will draw the electrons to the anodes. It will not be able to deal with heat and should be made of something conductive like copper so no plastic.
    BTW, taking apart old micro oven maggies have beryllium oxide insulators and so are a poison hazard. Then you need your high voltage supply design. The microwaves themselves are dangerous, and require a high voltage driver. Does this explain it simply so to understand what parts are missing?

  • I will try to explain it from my point of view which I am hoping will be easier to understand.


    Some time back while building the RC aitcraft, I was shaping a white foam nose cone and as I was shaping it into a long cone, I saw all of the dust from the foam
    starting to orbit the main hub body of the part in the drill press.I could see that the static charge is keeping a lot of the dust in stable orbits for a very
    long time so this was stuck im my head for years and years. How can foam dust hold a charge, with no magnets,no power ect. and it can do this with just sandpaper.
    Why does foam dust stick to everything after the friction of sanding it?
    Last year I saw the outline of this in a black and white silhouette on the internet and I knew exactly what it was..


    It is a static charged rotating magnetic vortex likely with an atom like nature.
    I started looking at the other silhouette looking for the part list. I'm now thinking of them as pattern art.(just a vaige diagram of the model.


    What I have at this point...
    It needs a way of powering the unit and stay in phase and generate the type of power to heat up alot of cathodes."Tesla coil type power"
    Use a Tesla coil to fire arcoss the top of each cathode in the spiral to create electrons.


    Next, it needs to power a magnet feild.
    Just enough to hold up a dust like material, such as gold dust to charge and discharge within the orbits of the nucleus.
    Next, drop the whole thing in a box built as a capasitor for dicharges.
    The way I see it, It needs to be built as a runaway device and then contain it like a runaway Tesla coil.
    I'm 15 months into building the tooling ect. to give it a try but I still don't have a vary good grip beyond the fundmentales, but I'm doing my best.
    to learn as I progress.
    The parts that you are seeing now are the tooling, "molds- plugs ect.


    Think of all the wiring as the sandpaper as the dust passes it.
    Trout

  • Clayton,


    This will take some time as I am just beginning to understand and need to
    frame your ideas in the scope of my knowledge So look at these posts
    as building blocks that can be added or discarded. If I say or refer
    to something that you do not understand let me know. This will help
    us both. Your analogies are helpful.


    So I am going to toss out ideas as the exact answer is beyond me at this
    point and other folks are reading this and might chime in.


    Before (historically) solid state devices people generated static
    electricity using wool/plastic (see wimhurst generators) then using a
    motor (see Van de Graff generators).


    In order to make a solid state high voltage source (unless you are
    really good at wiring solenoids) you need to head to the junkyard
    (a.k.a. my basement) and get a old tube TV. Which originally
    “historically” was used as a physics tool to generate electrons
    and throw them at a phosphor screen using a magnet to direct the
    flow. (This principle uses the spin magnetic moment of the dipole
    of the electron).


    So before we head that way, if you are trying to levatate gold
    particles (or dust size particles ) why not use something like this
    with an electo-magnets (that are opposed) to trap the particles?
    Also , If you are levitating light weight particles you can use sound
    waves without all the high voltage stuff as a way to control and the
    device is much simpler (but different fundamentally as it uses both
    sound waves and air as the medium to make the waves).


    I will stop here for a response to see if the use of electro magnets as
    a trap will work or if you want to use a tesla type generator which
    would be more complex.


    BTW, I had a another answer but hit the backspace key and the forum software "ate my homework again".

  • A bit more information...
    As the foam dust sticks to anything after being charged, I am thinking the same thing about the partice dust.
    After It has a small charge and it will lay dormit between the collector plate with only a small static charge. As the need for more
    power increases, it should be able to "Unbalance the mag field". The magnetic field will pull the dust into orbit to add more capacity and voltage ect.
    See pic.
    Also
    pic 2 I am hoping can keep the magnetron "type" device cool. Its another push pull field I think I can add water with a mix of
    iron dust to move the water like a pump
    inside the mag field to cool the water.
    My thinking but I would like to know what you think as this moves along
    Ty

  • The pictures help. I think I understand more about your original post (you will have to wait for a followup of this one as my wife has you-will-do's list). I will try to think about this last post, but I am a "game lagger". A joke. I take some time to think.


    So this is out of order, just for understanding. Also a disclaimer, this is how I understand things not meant to be anything else than that. A lot of people would be saying you will get killed with high voltage. This is B.S. and makes assumptions on how people are. But I like to point out the danger in HV.


    Fundamentally the spins will not stay in alignment they will wobble. Imagine a soccer ball rolling in a straight line. The black/white part will start to wobble, the electron spin will also.
    This imbalance will need to be addressed. Separately, per your plastic resonant cavity it would seem to me to be the wrong geometry to get decent oscillations. A thought is that they (electrons) are like balls are like bouncing around on the side of the cavity. Round geometry allows for more bounces (resonance). You will still need your antenna (cathode) and the cavity (anode)as the draw (sink tunnel) for the generated electrons) as they need somewhere to go , your magnet will set up the B field. About waves, an example is that people like to think of waves on an oscilloscope, but this is just a
    2d representation of a wave. Its better to imagine that a wave is round and the electron is spinning.
    Like dropping a stone in water, or better yet imagining a bullet spinning away from a rifle. Its where the concept of polarization comes from.
    One question, have you heard of the poynting vector? It will become important.

  • Okay your cavity design is valid, I think hands on experimenting is not
    only fun but the best educational thing you can do. I know that
    reading some of the links I sent may seems complex, but they are the
    results of 2 hundred years from Faraday/Maxwell/Heavyside to now. It
    may help you to know how I learn is to find out the history of the discovery, based mostly on the scientist or inventor/discoverer of some effect, then screw the math. I google Faraday on YouTube and relax and learn the history. I recommend it.


    If I personally can not understand the concept, the math would be a
    waste of time, so it is a journey. But after you get the history you
    will literally chase information and then the math. It really is
    amazing how these cats came up with these ideas. It turns out most
    often to be based on common sense. Abstract thinkers (theoreticians)
    that a good experimenters are rare.


    I would encourage you to start with you-tubes as you do your hands on.


    Back to what you want to do, there are very strong electromagnets that
    can literally lift a bed (Check the link). Some simple/cheap devices
    can levitate a lamp or a globe. But these are not using magnetrons to
    my knowledge just strong flux for repulsion (see link at bottom).


    You would need to understand that I am still not sure what your trying to
    do other than learn (the best way to learn by hands on). While caps
    are used in HV circuits to store static charge they are used often
    just to ensure that a circuit has a constant voltage source. So if
    you really want to use a maggie to levitate it will not be a simple
    answer, I can promise you that. But if this is what you want I would
    start on how a simple microwave works using a stirring fan to see if
    this would work (by principle only). I am just thinking out loud.
    This is called a thought experiment, just to see if the idea makes
    sense. The Germans have the perfect word for it gedankenexperiment.


    This post is too long but background to me is a part of toolset. You need
    proper tools for the job. And both the why and how to use a tool
    to get any real work out of it. Look carefully at this link and see
    if you really want to show someone levitation or spinning planet
    nucleus based on a maggie okay?


    I will be glad to help, as it helps me understand also. But I need to
    know when I am making sense that you can relate to. From principles
    to schematics. If I go to fast or skip over it is a waste of your time.
    Okay?


    http://dornob.com/for-real-1-6…-hover-bed-floats-on-air/

  • Understood and thank you.
    I have the raw materials to biuld this 2 or 3 time wrong lol and all the tools I need.
    I'm full blown OCD on this thing so ..... I'll continue reading and builing till I get stuck.
    Q-
    If you have a sphere with a strong force in the center of a "ball" type or tube of glass with all the charged dust spinning like a tornado "not just a free for all type spin' but in the top down to the bottom funnel shape do you think the charge would jump all the way down in a low volt state -or maybe ad an inert material like glass beed dust as a medium.
    Im thinking the dust will crash into each other but I think if the PPM changed as needed it would act like a voltage regulator if the full volt would not jump all the way down?

    Thank you for the input

  • Okay but time for me to ask questions. In your profile you have a photo of a
    gizmo. I have seen it somewhere on a OU type forum. Where did you get
    it?


    So did you disagree that the example of levatating bed was not what you
    are looking for?


    Also, are my explanations too long, not the point or complex? This one is
    important as I am trying to help. But if I not making logical sense I need to refocus.
    Please address all these questions.


    That said, to answer your question. Another poster posted a video of a
    magnetic vortex using an electro-magnet and a permanent magnet in an
    aquarium with water. As current was applied you could see the vortex
    you are describing in the bubbles. I mention this as I can not find
    the link but I think you must. Why? Well it models very very simply
    what you are trying to do and thus you can visualize (or model) where
    your going with your question. You could probably use a maggie to duplicate it, without the power that you would need in air.


    But a big thing is that the youtube experiment mentioned while seem to match what you want
    quite a bit, fails (after all it is an experiment meant to learn ;)
    The correct answer is in the comments (read the comments if you find it). The youtube poster did not have the number of magnets needed nor aligned with the fields.


    So think of not using air but water do demonstrate your device
    regardless of the use of a maggie or not. It will separate your
    particles a bit.
    I hope this helps at least to help demo proof of concept. Else your OCD head (joke here) will keep on keeping on.

    • Official Post

    Another poster posted a video of a
    magnetic vortex using an electro-magnet and a permanent magnet in an
    aquarium with water. As current was applied you could see the vortex
    you are describing in the bubbles


    Not the video you mention, but the work on magnetic vortices sounds very like that of Felix Ehrenhaft. Now you have the name maybe you can find what you want?

  • You both in the right area and I'm ok with anything you post. Its not over my head to much yet.. I will look at everything to see if it fits.
    I dont think it will need any real magnet force and water will conduct.


    I just realized how confusing that just sounded...
    I Will do my best to explain what I think I'm doing. to this stage


    Using a lot of charged plates with a "gap between each" designed in a spiral pattern to create a pump like
    orbit placed around a solid core post running all the way up the assembly "not touching the plates"


    Now add the dust in a pulse pattern spiral to each plate, It should act like a
    water spout tornato "up side down"and will grab the dust at the bottom of the assembly
    and start pulling it arcoss the plates and up the shaft.


    Now you have a charged partical running up the post
    simular to a tesla coil.


    There is a lot more to this, but I know I can't explain it without
    building it to show the example at the same time.


    And for the point...
    I'm pulling the parts list from a very odd source, "extraordinarily confrontational" of any main stream science,
    that is why I am building it and not just talking about it.
    I am convinced of what it is and how it works, I just don't know what part fits where.
    I can make more of this understanable I just need to build more of it and let you all see it.
    ps
    I built the gizmo. its what I think it will do.
    Its in this forum in an old post I jumped out of. It may still be here but I would rather not revisit
    I am copying everything to look at as my wife is off my ss " I have a lot of time in this" lol



    added pic..

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