Posts by woodworker

    Two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions – on a sesame seed bun. The ADDITIONAL ELEMENT (drum roll please) was the special sauce.

    Not sealed:


    0207.44_Exhibit_44.pdf

    The attached is not an order, it is merely a request for a price, etc. quote and IMHO Rossi only wanted the "pro-forma" invoice as a documentary prop to induce someone, e.g., IH, into believing that the Doral plant was going to work. I would be much more impressed if Rossi had actually ordered and paid (OMG, what am I suggesting, pay) for the platinum sponge. IIRC, Rossi's more common MO was to have someone else's secretary fabricate a false invoice to show that he had purchased supplies.

    ... "There is actually some good info out there....some even in the court documents."


    E.g. the contact between AR and Johnson Matthey senior management.

    Would you please be so kind as to identify the docket number (in the court filings) for that document? Thanks in advance.

    What is the combined probability that a couple of dozen physics professors, including a Nobel Prize winner, may have all been deceived into their field of expertise by a philosopher whose attitudes and controversial past were well known?


    I would say 100%. If something has already occurred, then the probability of it happening is 100% (or whatever nomenclature the stats guys use).

    And because both Lawyers work hard for there client things get resolved.

    Please tell me what esteemed law school from which you graduated? You seem to have such a keen grasp of legal principles and jurisprudence and how the adversarial system works. I sit in awe.

    And more people today believe that the moon landings were faked, that the government orchestrated 9/11 and that Elvis is alive (actually not sure about that last one). I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling when someone cites popular enthusiasm as a measure of whether or not something has actually been accomplished. Ditto the fact that Rossi was as successful as he was in scamming / raising money.

    The Court Case is over and have no

    interest in transcripts.

    It is time to move on like Tom Darden and Andrea Rossi have done.

    The best to both of them.

    With that said I think it would be a good idea to Shut Down This Thread.

    Why would it be a good idea to shut down the thread? Because it continues to draw attention to Rossi's lies and frauds? You say that you have no interest in the transcripts (and I assume the depositions), but you seem willing to accept Rossi's word and version of events as true. It seems to me that a person who took a person's word as evidence of their technological successes would at least want to know how often, and to what degree, did that person previously lie and commit fraud regarding their prior technological "successes." And yes, Rossi would like to move on and, just as in 1984, he would like to rewrite history in order to completely erase the entire IH / Doral debacle. We have always been at war with Oceania!

    May I talk about dogs and cats, both of which I love.


    Oh my FSM, I have to stop posting. I just noticed that I am now an "Intermediate." Does that mean I have to act (note act, not be) grown up and mature and stop telling bad jokes. Oh noes, woe is me. Anyhow, going out of town for a few days so behave and don't do anything I wouldn't do. And there are damned few things I wouldn't do (or haven't done).

    If I might draw upon several years of experience in fringe-ish forums to impress upon the open-minded initiate that there is a nontrivial possibility that the following topics will lead to a general conflagration and a war of all against all, involving the some of the very same people active in this specific thread: politics, anthropocentric global warming and religion. If your posts have the unfortunate side-effect of triggering such a food fight, they will be rounded up with the replies and dumped into the "Clearance Items" thread. And then we'll have to start clamping down on things. So resist the urge to go there, if only to ensure that your entertaining posts remain in this thread.

    Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maximus culpa. I shall behave.

    I think you might have this back-to-front. Pretty sure that the UK introduced a test for serious harm* or loss, to tighten up the notorious bias towards the claimant.


    * ie. It's not defamation if someone's reputation is worse than another's BS about them.

    That may be, but the last article I read about it was in 2017 in the University of Miami School Of Law International and Comparative Law Review, published August 28, 2017, and I believe that there is still a strong bias in favor of the plaintiff. I will make sure to ask a friend, who just did some post-JD work in England where he obtained another degree (I am not sure what, he keeps collecting legal degrees - what a poseur)

    I promise, pinky promise, not to do any more, others than the ones I already posted. I am Jewish and never attended Catholic school, so I can't comment on the nuns. But my mother used to do the ruler thing in trying to teach me piano. When I was about nine years old, I was already much taller than my mother and when she smacked me with the ruler, I grabbed it, smacked her back and said, yes, it hurts. No more piano lessons, instead I focused on mathematics which made her much happier (at least until my sophomore year at UCLA, when I got expelled, and then my repeat of my sophomore year at UCLA, when I got expelled again. I like to believe that I have the lowest undergraduate GPA of anyone who ever graduated from Boalt Hall Law School, the University of California at Berkeley. And yes, I did finally graduate from UCLA, albeit after being out of school for approximately 12 years, during which I did certain things (not including any felonies - so there).


    And Shane, I am polite and civil to my political opponents - it is not like I used to ask law students interviewing for jobs, "Are you a right thinking individual or a neo-nazi fascist republican." Oh, wait, I used to ask them that. The best reply I ever got was from a student who said "I am a right thinking individual who is a very conservative republican." We hired him, he was able to handle a difficult situation with poise, calmness, and discretion, all good attributes for an attorney who would, from time to time, be dealing with asshole clients. It also didn't hurt his chances that he was a Boaltie.


    But, going forward, I promise to behave.

    And Bernie Madoff scammed billions. Maybe we should ask him his views on LENR if raising money is the criterion on which we are going to rely. Or how about the late night television shows promoting get rich quick in real estate - now there is an idea, we need a late night television show with Rossi pushing his e-cats.


    Call 1-800-ECAT R US, operators are standing by. But there is more - the first 1,000 callers will also get an autographed picture, signed by DOTTORE ROSSI himself, of the ROBOTICIZED factory where these miraculous devices are made. And we have a special offer - if you order two ECATS right now, you can get them both for the low, low price of just twice as much as one, plus $100,000 for shipping and handling. We promise to ship these MIRACULOUS ECATS as soon as we fill all of the commercial orders we have already received. BUT, WE will ship you your personally autographed, by DOTTORE ROSSI, picture of our ROBOTICIZED FACTORY as soon as we receive your payment in full.

    I'd say that someone who has designed a few furnaces* should be able to realise for himself why the Penon report must be nonsense, and that's despite the ridiculous measurement methods contained inside it. - Yes, I know, the "steam meter broke"... which is an equally ridiculous excuse... Why not just change it, instead of trying to wrangle the data into a Shanahan-esque contortion of the steam equations, in order to suggest that Rossi actually made his 1MW?

    And I don't care to bet with you as (a) my Johnson is large enough already, and (b) for the same reason I don't steal sweets from small children in the street.



    * Mind you, humanity has been doing the same since before the bronze age, so let's not get too excited.

    Shanahan again, you are killing me. And I not only do not steal sweets from children, I give them sweets - I mean, dentists need the business. And I never talk about my Johnson, or the size of my hands or feet, which by the way are VERY large, and much larger than Trump's feet and hands. I think I have outed myself as someone to whom politics is the bread and water of life, but, for the sake of the moderators, I will try to limit my anti-Trump rants to no more than one a week. I think so far I am up to the first week in November 2019.

    Tony, first, I am not offering you legal advice. However, some of your comments re: IH could be viewed as defamatory, unless of course you can back them up. Just saying. Oh, and by the way, although Rossi's bad behavior doesn't excuse any bad behavior by IH, you obviously are not familiar with the corporate games and machinations that Rossi played in that whole debacle.


    And Messieur Ashfield, I am not only still ready to wager, once you agree to some sort of real validation of Rossi's accomplishments, but I have offered to up the stakes and yet I have not heard any response to that. I feel so lonely, so sad.


    Also, please find attached the fee schedule to civil filings in San Mateo County. And lastly, I don't believe I ever said I doubted your credit. Could you please point me to that remark I must have so cruelly made, and if I did so, please accept my most humble and abject apology therefor.


    And apologies if I attached multiple times - still getting the hang of internet of tubes thing.

    We (LF/Vortex et al) haven't seen ALL the facts from discovery. For example, we've only seen parts of some of the depositions.

    How about you (Dewey/IH) release all the key depositions in their entirety?

    Although the Settlement Agreement does not have a provision, IIRC, forbidding the release they may not be his to release. Fortunately for me, if Rossi ever sues me for defamation, IH and Jones Day Reavis Pogue (and Satan, as sometimes referred to by their associates) would have to turn them upon receipt of a subpoena. FYI, another fond name for Jones Day was Jones Day Night & Weekends. I like to tease Jones Day, but I truly have the highest respect for them and their lawyers (excepting the ones representing Trump). I started my practice with O'Melveny & Myers, a "small boutique" with revenue of approximately $738 million last year and worked on many transactions with Jones Day folks. Good people by and large. And IMNSHO, if the Rossi/IH case had gone to a verdict, Jones Day would have crushed Rossi. And, as for Rossi coming in to the court in a wheel chair, that would have exposed him as a complete fraud to the jury and he would have absolutely no credibility thereafter. How do I know. You can be sure that Jones Day had photographs of him the week before trial walking around just fine.

    First, please feel free to forward my comments to Rossi, I beg you. Secondly, as to the degree of difficulty, yes it is true to win when the accusations are true - then they are not defamatory. However, it is not nearly as difficult as in England (you say Sweden, I say England) where to win a suit in defamation the defendant has to prove the truthfulness of the alleged defamatory language. Much more difficult in England. Here I would only have to prevent Rossi from proving that his claims of defamation are more likely than not, i.e., greater than fifty percent. It wouldn't make a difference though - I would get all of the Rossi materials from Jones Day and then conduct discovery on Rossi. Rossi will never sue anyone again where there is an opportunity for the other side to take discovery. Fuhgetaboutit.


    My name is Howard Michael Appel. I use "woodworker" because that was my sign in on the very first blog I visited low these many years and they recommended not using your real name. In case you missed any of my earlier posts on this topic, I am a lawyer, licensed in California, my State Bar Number is 158674, my mailing address is 1100 Broadway Street, Suite 5752, Redwood City, California 94063. Please make sure to use my middle name in full as there is a Howard Miller Appel who has been in trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission and was a subject of a 1996 (IIRC) story in The Wall Street Journal regarding certain issues. Somewhere, unless I lost it, I have a letter from the WSJ confirming that I was not the subject of that story.

    Seems you felt addressed by my post?

    No, I don't see such a bet would do anything good to change this whole discussion and running in circles. Rossi believers will go on to ignore any sign of doubt in their hero. Rossi has always been a master of promises and excuses when it comes to point to deliver and something he claimed did not materialize. We will see this by end of this year and by end of next year - it is simply the same pattern, since almost a decade. This is unfortunately just entertaining but doesn't add anything of value to the entire LENR research field, and no product (he could have been a billionaire and started to save the world many years ago with his certified 1MW plants...but didn't why? I am sure you can explain: because there was already an new and better and smaller and higher COP toy in the R&D pipeline...

    Such cynicism, you almost sound as if you don't believe in the master.


    Apropos comments about betting. I almost never bet on sporting events or other matters that I view as inherently games of chance. I have represented too many gaming companies to ever contemplate gambling in a casino and I would be a terrible loser, so I don't. I bet on things that I consider sure and on things where I want to see people put their pocket on the line along with their mouth. I never bet, or offer to bet, more than I can easily afford to lose.


    I am sorry but I do not understand your reference to Sweden or its libel laws. If I have defamed Rossi, he does not need to file an action in Sweden. I know he has sufficient contacts to satisfy personal jurisdiction requirements as a defendant in Florida, but nothing in International Shoe (the seminal constitutional case on personal jurisdiction in the United States) and its progeny ("I. Shoe and its progeny" is an often used phrase when discussing personal jurisdiction) or any where else that requires a plaintiff to satisfy the personal jurisdiction requirements. Rossi could simply march into any California State Court in San Mateo County (which is just below San Francisco and is part of the "Silicon Valley") or any US District Court (filing in Federal Court requires either a Federal issue, which is not present here, or (A) complete diversity of citizenship, usually different states but a California citizen and a foreign citizen would suffice, and (B) a controversy in an amount greater than $75,000. Filing in a California State Court would only require the payment of a filing fee, which is currently $435.


    I don't believe I made any reference to Sweden so please explain (although one of my sisters and her husband lived there in the late sixties and early seventies, I have no ties to Sweden. Oh wait, I used to own a Volvo C-70 convertible - never should have donated it to charity).


    As to UL approval, I am persuaded by your and others' points about timing and I agree that a UL approval is not an appropriate condition precedent. However, newspapers, journals, etc. just will not do. I think you and I are both old enough to remember the lead up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 where we were repeatedly assured by media large and small, old media and new media, including the Gray Lady herself, the New York Times, that there was absolutely no doubt that Iraq had vast stockpiles of WMD, a nuclear programs, stockpiles of bio and chemical weapons and that Iraq had in fact weaponized drones to attack the West, all of which turned out to be a very large steaming pile of horse manure, the consequences of which we will be paying for over the next 60 to 100 years. So no, I will not accept some press release reprinted in a newspaper or journal. I very much detest President Reagan, but he did have one intelligent piece of advise "Trust, but verify."

    Why is this debate still going on?
    If Rossi has nothing he will be forgotten by history in short time. If he has something we will learn about it in the news.

    If IH has something people won't bother to read what somebody once upon a time in this forum wrote as they will be greeted as the saviour of mankind. If they don't have anything they will stay where they are right now. Invisible und unknown to 99,999% of earth population.

    So what is all the buzz about?

    I must confess that in my case it is because I get easily bored and following con men, scammers, Nigerian princes, people who believe that their birth certificate has been securitized or monetized, etc. entertains me. I would say the whole car crash thing except I don't watch those kinds of disasters - I take no pleasure in seeing others injured or harmed (unless they are Trump supporters - apologies to the moderators for slipping that in, but I had to) but I love watching the machinations of con men and scammers and seeing them exposed.


    As I have repeatedly said, I have no dog in this fight and I am certainly not going to get involved in any of the technical discussions (there was a reason I switched my undergrad major at UCLA from physics to economics - physics you actually have to know stuff whereas in economics a well drawn graph will usually suffice). I count myself lucky if I understand one word per sentence of the technical, and that includes the words "the" and "and."

    Sounds like you are trying to back out. I will not agree to "reputable journal or paper." That could, by some persons' estimation, include JONP. As to manner of payment, I am happy to send cash, US currency, to Alan. As to the other conditions, compliance with those relies on Rossi's credibility -- apologizing in advance for the profanity, NO FUCKING WAY do I trust anything that comes out of Rossi's mouth. The man has proven himself, by his own admissions in sworn testimony, to be a serial liar. As to the year wait for retraction, you are only putting up $50 while I am putting up $500. If you are that strapped for cash, let me know and I will just send you $50 (by US Post Office money order, registered mail). Your comment about "If it happens" -- not sounding very confident there AA. And if these are impossible requirements I am open to others that don't rely on Rossi's representations, statements and other lies. Here is one that should be easy to satisfy IF Rossi has in fact a commercially ready product -- do a public test of it. If it is commercially ready and he has started production (must suppress sound of laughter), then he should easily be ready for a public test, one where all he is required to do is start it up, then walk away and let it run for a week or so. After all, a commercially ready product, while it may need monitoring, will not need constant tending to make sure that the controls don't over-heat and melt (at least I wouldn't think so) and a commercially ready product shouldn't need all the constant tinkering and babying that Rossi's products seem to demand. If these commercially ready products are intending for industrial applications, they certainly can't be the typical Rossi product, which seems to demand not only constant tinkering, but babying lest anything go wrong.


    I have followed your posts AA with great fascination, as I find them tremendously amusing and entertaining. So let me make this very clear: I have no financial, business or other interest in LENR generally or who comes up with a successful approach. I would truly love to see something come out of all this. But I am 100% convinced, beyond an iota of a shadow of a doubt, that it will not be Rossi. I am equally convinced that he is a hypocrite, a serial liar, a serial conman and a total fraud (Dr. Rossi: if you wish to sue me for defamation, my address is 1100 Broadway, Suite 5752, Redwood City, CA 94063 and if you wish to arrange for personal service, which would be required under California law,my telephone number is 818-660-9522, call me and I will arrange to meet your process server -- so bring it on). I base all of this on what was publicly filed and/or released in connection with the Rossi/IH litigation, focusing particularly on the depositions of him and his fellow crooks, all taken under penalty of perjury. Rossi lied all through his dealings with IH (I don't care if IH lied or behaved badly, I am not defending them and their conduct is not at issue with respect to Rossi's new wonder machines, so please don't try to divert attention / responsibility for Rossi thereby) and his and others depositions proved that he and they were lying.


    You don't want to back out and you don't like my conditions precedent to my honoring my obligations, them come up with something that doesn't rely of Rossi's bullshit. I want some sort of evidence (something that Rossi never provides) as determined by an independent third party that Rossi's magic box does what he claims.

    Thank you again. Better to send the address by email to the interested parties. I didn't want to put you to that trouble.

    It may well come to nothing. Even Woodworker is trying to back out.

    Excuse me! I am not trying to back out. Rather your accusations of that sound to me like you are running scared. I will honor the terms to which I originally agreed, but let's also make it more interesting. IN ADDITION TO AND NOT IN LIEU OF THE ORIGINAL WAGER, let's have another on the terms one of your Rossi aligned posters suggested, at 1:1 odds. I will match you dollar for dollar up to $20,000. Due date: 6/1/19, UL approved, energy out greater than energy in, no other chemical or other processes, just Rossi's magic box, and for sale via any major retailer, any regional or greater utility, or any major commercial supplier. After all, if it is commercially available, it will have to be sold by some entity with a network and experience. Sale directly by Rossi, by internet or otherwise, won't cut it. I want a third party, other than UL, to put their name on the line as to the validity of Rossi's claims. IIRC, UL doesn't opine on processes, only on their safety. And all of the discussions have been about commercial availability - prototype doesn't mean squat.


    If you are so confident, none of these criteria should be problematic for you. If you have problems, then I guess you are trying to back out.

    I had already posted before you posted this. I am fine with this with one exception - publication must be in a peer reviewed publication, must not be retracted, revised, etc. for another year after publication and (in the conjunctive and not including the disjunctive) must be reproducible by independent unaffiliated third party testers. No publication of "look what I accomplished" without verification and the ability to replicate. If you have that much confidence in Rossi and his honesty, those shouldn't be a problem.

    I'm prepared to trust Alan SMith's judgment better than pages of legalese.

    How about UL approved and with energy out being greater than energy in (utilizing Rossi's magic technology only, i.e., no batteries, no other chemical processes, etc.) that can be verified by any US based national lab?.


    Oh, to be representing an underwriter of that IPO and conducting do diligence:


    Attorney for underwriter: Dr. Rossi, we need to see ALL of your technical materials, e.g., specifications, drawings, test results, everything since day one.


    Rossi: I can't let you have any of that because I can't risk my IP.


    Attorney: TAXI!


    And then the inevitable class action for multiple 10b-5 violations and the accompanying disclosure. And if it is the SEC suing, hey, they don't need to worry about the litigation budget - they just subpoena and you either comply or they get a contempt citation ready. Unless you are a mega billion international, e.g., Appel, Google, GE, etc. or you have a major law firm on retainer, you don't want to mess with the SEC. Just the cost of complying with their subpoenas will easily run into the hundreds of thousands and tie up you people and organization for months. And this is all their attorneys do and they get good at it (of course then they leave to become partners in Wall Street firms, making a million plus a year, to represent clients in trouble with the SEC). Oh, and let's say the SEC says you haven't done anything wrong, guess what, they don't reimburse you for your legal, accounting, etc. fees or the damage done to your stock price, reputation, etc. They will just waive good bye and put a note in their calendars to come visit you again in a year or so.

    So the terms would be if Rossi produces commercial E-Cats by mid 2019 (my estimate of when it will happen) you will pay me $500. If he fails to do so I will pay you $50. (It could be pounds if you prefer),

    We will both send undated checks to Alan Smith if he agrees to hold them and act as referee.

    By copy of this post will Alan please be kind enough to reply.

    I prefer dollars - much easier to spend up here in the socialist republic of Northern California. I will head to Wells Fargo tomorrow to order new checks and as soon as they come in and Alan says ok, I will send check to him for $500. Alan, please send me address by pm and additional confirmation once you receive AA's check (I will send mine without waiting for confirmation of receipt of AA's check).