There are probably modern fission designs for reactors which meet Max's criteria. Unfortunately due to recent catastrophes with fission and the unsolved problem of intensely radioactive long lasting waste, it is politically impossible to go that route. Captain Obvious says that leaves wind, solar and geothermal. Possibly also algae and fast growing plants too.
seven_of_twenty
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Posts by seven_of_twenty
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Andrea Rossi is a determined, hard working, intuitive inventor.
Tom Darden and his associates might not agree with that assessment of Rossi.
QuoteThe QX ‘s output of 100 W is really too small for large industrial applications,
Who cares? 100W LENR heaters ganged together could provide warm water and air and probably cooking heat at low cost to countless millions of individual consumers in every part of the world. The gigantic returns from selling such heaters would provide almost unlimited sums of money to fund the development of industrial versions. Anyway, didn't Dr. Levi measure several kilowatts on the original steam and hot water generating e-cats in 2011? Certainly, something could have been made of that by now by somebody had it not been most probably a scam on the part of Rossi and errors on the part of Levi..
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I don't recall claiming to know anything about tritium nor about errors in experiments. What I know is that most scientists have not been drawn to study LENR. Investors and entrepreneurs are not flocking to it. In my opinion, just opinion not based on my doing calculations or experiments, this is not because they hate LENR, are afraid of LENR, etc. etc. It's because attempts to get reliable and promising results from LENR seem to succeed only when done by people who "believe" in LENR. Mainline scientists have no luck with duplicating that work.
It might not be worthwhile to rehash the arguments for and against LENR again here. I didn't mean to. I was only replying to the absurd claim that, faced with enough powerful evidence, skeptics, me included, mainline science included would refuse to believe the evidence. Fact is, if LENR were as obvious a promising source of energy as Jed claims, someone, somewhere would be providing much more generous funding for it. LENR has gotten somewhat adequate funding as recently as Darden's attempts. How's that going for him and his associates so far?
Edited: Shanahan knows a great deal about tritium, apparently works with dangerous amounts of it, and he is not convinced by the evidence and states why. True, I know little or nothing about tritium but he certainly does.
Cue argument that Shanahan is a loon and thinks mice make water disappear or whole buckets of water can evaporate overnight without a heat source. I've been reading a little of Jed's stuff.
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If you can't accept that LENR is real, you should think about quitting the forum...
What makes you think I can't accept that LENR, or just about anything, is real? All it takes to get my acceptance is really strong evidence. The obvious problem with LENR is that it is unlikely to be real, based on known science. Using nickel and hydrogen to make LENR is even less likely than other proposed systems because so much is known about those elements from battery technology. The evidence, therefore, has to be compelling. You (and Jed Rothwell for sure) may think it's compelling but most people don't. Similarly, Jed and many others thought Rossi's claims were compelling and many still think it. Most people and most scientists either don't care or don't believe it because the evidence is not strong. Your opinion may differ but don't exclude me from the discussion because my opinion is different from yours. Not unless you want to make it a religion.
QuoteDisplay MoreAttacks will certainly come, but will wither and die if he results are replicable.
The negative reaction against CF in 1989 had two main reasons.
1) The going public by PF was against law, if they would have been physicists... National security tried to tease down the whole field before it could emerge.
2) CERN, ITER with 10'000+ physicists already had to fight against Mills theory. CF was a new threat to their funny live-style. Thus the establishment had to react.
Now about 30 years later and spoiled tens of billions and ten thousand of nonsense papers, the standard nuclear and particle physics has entered the end of live phase. If they are awake, then they can already smell the perfume of the new reality, that will erase their past.
You and Adrien seem to like straw men. Sure, if the evidence is there and replicable, the attacks will die. Problem is, it isn't.
Nobody is fighting Mill's theories, most people don't know and don't care. Mills has yet to accomplish anything other than meaningless shows of bright lights and he has been trying to prove himself for going on 30 years with the theory.
CF is no threat to anyone except occasionally investors like Tom Darden, Neil Woodford and Dewey Weaver. A new reality? ROTFWL. Like the old lady used to say in the Wendy's add: "Show me the beef!"
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@Adrian Ashfield
I suppose I agree with that narrow point but even that would not be certain, hence the "probably." Thing is, I strongly disagree with you that Rossi is building anything other than assembling crappy fake machines out of stuff he buys very cheaply from ordinary retail outlets. If he ever builds a factory and makes LENR machines which are sold to the public or even to industry, I will happily eat my hat. Will you eat yours if he doesn't in say... 2 years?
QuoteThen, by inverting your reasoning (if I understand your point), if Rossi does not build a factory (highly automated) within a reasonable timeline, then he does not currently have a product?
Heh!
That doesn't make sense. It is true that if Rossi builds a factory, he probably has a product. Or he could be doing another trick to make money by swindling investors like he did IH and many before IH. But even if he had a product that worked, which is highly unlikely, he doesn't need to build a factory to prove it. Logic please! -
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This idea that science is settled and unchanging is odd
It certainly is but nobody here is saying that. Good research and deductions are not negated by new and finer work. For example, Newton's laws are just as valid today as they were when Newton brilliantly discovered them. Sure, they only work for a limited set of conditions of size, mass, speed and so on. And sure, with more powerful mathematics and scientific instruments, you can examine regimes wherein Newton's Laws become only a crude approximation or don't work at all. That doesn't change their validity over the regime for which they work within the precision Newton claimed. That will never change unless the laws affecting the constancy and predictability of the universe change. I think that was Branzell's point.
As for over-unity, first off, what the heck is overunity? Define it please. I don't think it's a very useful construct for describing anything! Like paranormal and supernatural have little practical meaning. Either something is real and can be studied or it's not.
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@Adrian Ashfield
The factory problem is that the reasoning is circular. Rossi says he is building a factory and you conclude from that that he has a product. But Rossi is a well proven serial liar. Yes, if he is building a factory, he probably has a product. But there is no reason at all for believing he is building a factory. The only evidence which is public about this is what Rossi said. And we all know, except maybe Adrien and one or two others, how reliable that is. And Adrien says he has his own mysterious sources. People have said that about Rossi a lot in the past, for example Jed Rothwell. But the real sources about Rossi are the extensive news stories and other reports which Krivit assembled and the huge collection of documents and depositions in the court case Rossi vs IH.
As for Dr. Essen, no doubt he is capable and has done good work in the past. However, it can be said with fairness that he was too trusting of Rossi and did not ask the right questions of him. Krivit, on the other hand, did ask those questions. It is not unusual for scientists to be scammed by con men because they are trusting and do not expect scams in scientific matters.
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This is official, and generally the US government is not in the business to scam people, so that is at least off the table. They also do not generally offer to license, or partner with others to develop something they think is crap.
All true but the government has been known to engage in highly speculative (and eventually fruitless) research. For example, Uri Geller and psychic phenomena were studied under government grants by Targ and Puthoff and how can we forget the substantially funded project to study "remote viewing" -- a stupid idea you can disprove in one afternoon in a freshman college psych lab?
https://www.cia.gov/library/re…-00791R000100440001-9.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/re…dp79-00999a000300030027-0
Uri Geller's rather ordinary magic tricks and the vague illusion of remote viewing fooled government scientists for many years each. They are classics but there are dozens of projects tried by various US government agencies which were fanciful and got nowhere. Some in fact were scams, not by the government, but by the experimenters. Government support is no guarantee of legitimacy.
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Rossi wrote:
QuoteLeonardo Corporation is ready, do not worry. We will be very fast with the distribution, because we want to burn out ALL our possible competitors, whose only strategy I can see is hope to be ready to copy our products, pretending they will have invented them.
Rossi always says stuff like this. In fact, speed in coming to market means nothing. Patents do. And Rossi does not have a single one to protect him. All he has are dumb ones like the patent for some sort of heater where the energy source for it is not specified. If Rossi really had an LENR reactor to sell and he tried to market it without real and meaningful patents, big companies would copy his product and make it far better, slicker, safer, and faster than he could, once they got their hands on a working sample. And there would be nothing Rossi could do about it. Or does he expect to compete with trashy prototype made out of Home Depot gardening department parts and duct tape? That's the quality of build he's been known for during the past 10 years.
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loss of license and sales territory is worthless?
License and territory awarded by Rossi has never seemed to do anyone much good. Know any exceptions? So yes. Totally worthless.
Quote"My sources (wouldn't you like to know)"
Not really. Building permits and evidence of expenditures would be interesting but you don't have those, do you? Even though both should be public information if they are real and expenditures are by a corporation.
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The goal is obvious to me. The goal is to increase or knowledge, power and wealth a million-fold. As I said, it is the same goal that led prehistoric people to occupy northern Europe, and to cross the Pacific ocean. It is what we do. It is why our species did not go extinct millions of years ago. The only thing we have going for us is our insatiable curiosity and our drive to make things, do things and go places no one has gone to before. All species have this drive to some extent. In college, I worked on a project measuring this exploratory behavior in guppies. But we humans do not have many other survival skills.
The main drive humans seem to have is for uncontrolled reproduction. And that will probably be their undoing, long before Mars is available to colonize and even if it were, how long would it take to overpopulate it also without a lot more enthusiasm than we already have for birth and population control?
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There are many, many more outside this forum who take the view of wait and see
After 7 years of waiting (11 if you consider Rossi's e-cat heated factory in 2007) the only things to see are meaningless farces Rossi calls demos and a huge inventory of lies and negative results (see the court case). So please Adrien, some specifics:
- how long are you willing to wait?
- what is it we should be looking to see?
QuoteWhy would Rossi spend the money to build a factory to make reactors that don't work?
Rossi has claimed to be doing that since 2012 yet nobody has seen a factory and nobody has seen a robotic production facility. There is evidence that much of the money Rossi got from IH (about $11 million) was spent to purchase Florida condominiums.
What makes you think Rossi is building factories or spending money? As someone else pointed out, there is no way to build a factory in the US and in most parts of the civilized world without building permits and other easily traceable documentation. Where is Rossi's? What do you think a robotic factory capable of making thousands or millions of reactors costs? Who would give Rossi that sort of money? Where are the environmental impact reports? Reports from nuclear regulatory commission(s)?
Are you simply taking the word of a proven liar and a con man? What evidence do you have? Let us in on it, please.
Not that I expect answers. -
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but Rossi shows no sign of going down that route.
Or any new route, preferring, apparently, his old methods which are showing a non-working assembly of hardware store parts followed by a plethora of meaningless and/or unsupported claims probably aimed at the dumbest or most incautious possible investors (sort of like the Nigerian scams are).
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As for ores on Mars, I have no idea except to say that the first astronauts to arrive will feel the need to find some.
Right. Just as soon as they get done finding air (oxygen), water, radiation shielding, energy and food. And I bet it will be difficult to find good household help, good TV repair people, and In and Out burgers for quite some time.
QuoteElon Musk's Tesla went to space and was filmed there for several days and, after that, looked pretty OK.
I believe humans would do just fine in Mars with current technology and resources.
Sure. As long as people can be made of metal and glass and can run on rechargeable lithium ion batteries!
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Yes, Rossi is a fraud who may have had something despite that. Being a fraud, or deeply dishonest, or exploitative does not preclude being right about a technical claim. Or right about one claim and an outrageous liar about another. As I have often mentioned, Edison was a piece of work in some ways, and some of his demos were dubious, but he was a real inventor.
Sure he was a real inventor. In the sense that Madoff was a real investor. Maybe what Rossi is doesn't "preclude being right about a technical claim" but it sure lowers the expectation. And after all these years and all the evidence of fraud on the part of Rossi, those expectations should not be noticeably above zero.
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The only proof that the Ecat works for me is
if the Ecat goes to market and there are
satisfied customers.
So you don't believe in neutrinos or quasars or the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) or "high" temperature superconductivity because you can't buy one at Home Depot?
Actually, if that experiment in which Darden compared a fueled to an unfueled reactor by accident had worked and the fueled reactor had made a lot of energy, everyone would believe Rossi.
It seems that you have no idea at all why skeptics are so sure that Rossi is a fraud. Clues: it isn't hatred, it isn't fear, it isn't jealousy, it isn't most things Rossi supporters think it is. It's simply facts. It's lack of good enough evidence, lack of independent replication, Rossi's long collection of lies, errors, and contradictions, and not to forget that Rossi was a criminal in Italy, no matter what he claims about it on his web site. None of this has anything to with the ecat not having reached the market.
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Sticking to Mars for a moment because it's "easy:"
QuoteMars’ Atmosphere:
Mars has a very thin atmosphere which is composed of 96% carbon dioxide, 1.93% argon and 1.89% nitrogen, along with traces of oxygen and water. The atmosphere is quite dusty, containing particulates that measure 1.5 micrometers in diameter, which is what gives the Martian sky its tawny color when seen from the surface. Mars’ atmospheric pressure ranges from 0.4 to 0.87 kPa, which is the equivalent of about 1% of Earth’s at sea level.
More depressing details at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars And that is before we get to radiation, solar flares, and more.
When you go to settle down there, Jed, be sure to save me some fish.
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With a space elevator
OK, that's where I stop discussing this with you. That is a completely insane idea, at least for centuries to come if not permanently.
QuoteRabbits are self-replicating robots that reproduce and sustain themselves from resources taken from the surroundings. The robots might construct space ships which go to comets, break them into small pieces, and send them on an orbit to intercept Mars.
But I do like the idea of bunnies taking over. Beware of Evil Bunnies though.