From e-catworld:
Thanks to LuFong for putting all the Exhibits mentioned in the IH answer in a Google Drive folder here:
https://drive.google.com/drive…KQafY4bHhOZHlBZFZ4MG8</a>
Thank you, LuFong!
Abd has also uploaded these files, here:
All exhibits from I.H. answer to Rossi uploaded here
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Thanks, Jed. LuFong has actually put all the files there, including Summons issued to the five counterclaim defendants (which I didn't bother with), these are Exhibits 26-30.
Obviously, LuFong is getting at least some of the files from PACER.
The newvortex filespace has annotations for the Exhibits, so you can tell what they are! I also chopped down the business card image which was ridiculously large as a PDF.
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now all the question is if there was a conspiracy by Leonardo as say IH, or if there is a conspiracy against Leonardo by IH and evidences are fake.
analyzing the incentive network, the respective differential losses if one is caught lying, only one possibility is credible.
I want it to be quick and definitive. We have to reconfigure our effort.
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Quote from "AlainCo"
analyzing the incentive network, the respective differential losses if one is caught lying, only one possibility is credible.
Correct.
If the plant does not work, I find it extremely difficult to enlist Penon and Fabiani in the conspiracy IH describes in the CounterFUD. Odds for that working out is miniscule and the downside HUGE. COP~50 for one year in that scenario is rediculous .
However, if the plant works all the actions and FUD taking place the last year falls into place. Endless Lugano bashing by TC, endless flow meter FUD by Adbul and Jed. All comments by Weaver. And the Zoepfl/Murray connection with DC people incl Apco. The incentives to discredit Rossi is huge, especially after the first quarterly report when IH realized that they probably due to incompetence were not able to reliably replicate (with or without help by Rossi) COP~11. The very carefully worded counterFUD (especiall on excess heat/COP issues) strengthens this hypothesis enormously. And the fact that they acknowledge the ERV report as "speaking for itself", ie COP=50, but not releasing it ... and only denying the GPT on the old signature/timing issue... They actually acknowledge the MW plant, but deny it was the test ... go figure ...
I do hope you realize this Alain!
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OK, so I've just read through a few pages of comment on the other thread.
I also read through the entire IH answer (though I've not yet checked most of the exhibits).
Putting the two together, I'm unwilling to re-argue points here - the answer is almost precisely as would have been expected and IH's story of how and why they were defrauded by Rossi is entirely consistent. That there are some here who don't see it that way is predictable - but it does them no credit. Paras 79-86 of the counterclaim are well worth reading carefully.There are just a few points that I'd like to bring out:
(1) The GPT errors. IH are giving, in their example, some exemplary ways in which the test clearly contravened good practice to an extent that is negligent, in several ways. The fan being just one of those, another being the existence of "cooked" data. Given such provable errors, they do not have to precisely account for how the fudges results are what they are. The point is that once you leave specs - running flowmeters wrong, substituting estimates for real data, it is very difficult afterwards to know how large is the error. You just know "dragons go here" and rightly don't trust it. Also, given provable errors of this kind it can be reasonably supposed that there are other similar, but undetected, issues. Hence the arguments from some that because COP=50 is so large, and accounting for all of that is difficult, the device must have worked, would fail even if the exemplary errors were indeed provably limited.
(2) The exemplary errors are not provably limited. For one reason: if some data is proven fudged no limit can be put on how much more fudge. For context please read Exhibit 5, in detail.
(3) Flowmeter specifics.The (claimed) average flowrate is just below the minimum flowmeter spec. That is unprofessional and means the results cannot be reliable, but I’d not expect large errors just from this. Other things make the matter worse.
(a)You remember the ill-fated DGT demo where they were able to generate arbitrary high apparent flow rates with near zero real flow rate by reducing the rate below meter spec and allowing turbulence to make the impellor run backwards? This flowmeter has the same issue, and being mounted with vapour in the tube as well as water makes this infinite error mechanism possible as well as the obvious large over-reading due to a partially filled pipe.
(b) The evidence in exhibit 5 that the reported data on flowrate is just wrong is unmistakable (how could it remain so constant over large working reactor number changes etc?). Given this, the actual flow rate could be much lower than that reported.
(4) IH behaviour. The arguments here from some, specifically Shane, are just scientifically and logically wrong. I know Shane does not claim to be a technical guy – but then he should not argue technical arguments with such confidence. It is actually very difficult to prove COP = 1 to any good accuracy. Much easier to prove COP is higher than some limit (if it is really greater than 1) then to prove there is no excess heat. In fact it is logically impossible to prove there is no excess heat. All you can do is say that you have not been able to measure anything convincingly above errors. IH’s care on this issue will be especially strong because until they got high power tech help in (Murray) they were influenced by Fabiani and others and relying on test methods that were just wrong. Look at their believing the Lugano results until rather late in the day when they seem to have located TC’s report. I guess Jed told them, because it is published on lenr-canr?
(5) Armchair critics here think that IH would be certain there was no excess heat early on. That cannot be true. They would have doubts, which got larger with more experimentation. They can never say there was no excess heat, only that they have no evidence of this and certainly any actual excess is provably below some value given by their total setup errors. Correct estimation of those errors is not simple for any setup.
Regards, THH
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Interesting find by "givedogabone" on ECW. (http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…nds-to-rossis-complaints/)
There is a James Bass playing soccer for the Johnson Matthey XPO soccer team ( http://football.mitoo.co/PlayersHistory2.cfm?PI=95623&LeagueCode=hoc2006 ) It looks like this James Bass have also played for the Royston Town team some years ago.
and
In Royston, a small town outside Camebridge in the UK, we easily find the address of , you guessed it (easy to find on google earth).... :
Johnson Matthey Chemical Products
Orchard Rd, Royston SG8 5HE, Storbritannien
and, guess what they manufacture ...http://chemicals.matthey.com/chemicals/element/Pt
a lot of stuff that has to do with platinum and catalysts .... -
Maybe Rossi came across to them in his earlier research for a nuclear catalyzer once the 90 years old man providing the magical powder was going to pass away.
Isn't funny that the energy produced by an nuclear device powered by a nuclear catalyser is used to produce further nuclear catalyzer?
More or less it sounds like a chicken egg loop... -
Re exhibit 5 - and Wyttenbach's slur's on James Murray's competence - see:
The Industrial Heat Answer -
Re exhibit 5 - and Wyttenbach's slur's on James Murray's competence - see:
The Industrial Heat AnswerTC: Just post a photo of the flowmeter in place ( 1MW), with the type tag and the story is over...
If You don't have it, then the type they(IH) name is a nice try...
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Quote
the flowmeter
LOL - like Defkalion, is not it? Seems as if Rossi really taught something to the Greeks. Well, what a pity: ore than five years and stil people wondering where the scam is or who the scammers are.
Money is the answer: those who entered the business and got money are the bad guys - guess what? You can save very few people, and only where you cannot think they think they would have done (and a lot of).Point is: the whole story of a magic machine imagined while in jail and thereafter realized by a known scammer is incredible by itself.
Such a miracle should have been proven without uncertainties far more than by the words of some retired professor or some non brilliant researcher. Instead, it went that way: friends and fellows and employees (people paid to swear it worked!) - and a lot of money all around.The "incredible" part is not that it could work to make money, the incredible is that till nowadays (and excluded friends and fellows and employees, for which is normal) there might be people wondering if it was a scam and - should they really accept the fact - who the scammer(s) might ever be...!!
p.s.
Hi, AlainCo.
Any news on broken clocks? -
RED ALERT RED ALERT ACTIVATE ALL SOCK PUPPETS
SHITPOST SUNDAY IS ON I REPEAT SHITPOST SUNDAY IS ON
Green ink award. This post not as amusing as you imagine. Alan.
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about what is self-evident, it is clear "self-evident" is relative.
No need of sock-puppets when you have convince people who defend their opinion with the courage of the last soldier of Napoleon in Waterloo.External Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.Here the disease is caused by the total control that the rational hemisphere (Left) have on the personality.
it does not work if the creative/irrational hemisphere (right) is the only one controlling personality. In that case the victim simply admit he screw up and believe his doctor.I think this is the proof that even in one body there should be different opinion expressing on the same subject, and that pure rationality is not always the best way to catch real world, and accept owns mistakes.
By the way, if I accepted to change it is because of the long list of wrong opinion that I corrected, sometime multiply.
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The paranoia of Planet Rossi imagines that IH has some huge motive to discredit Rossi on the blogs, but the blogs are completely irrelevant to IH operations and plans. IH is not soliciting investment by public means. They are operating through a limited partnership, and limited partnerships do not generally solicit public investment. Rather, they require that investors be "qualified," i.e, that they be in a position to lose their entire investment, should that happen, without major harm.
The claim of Rossi and those following him is that IH obtained the Woodford $50 million by showing Woodford the "successful test" at Doral. Rossi, in fact, set up that test claiming that IH could use it that way. But IH, it is highly likely, did not use it that way, because they already suspected serious problems, and if they suspected serious problems, they would be obligated to disclose them to investors.
The Cherokee people were very accustomed to risky limited partnerships, it was how they operated. A fair number of these went bankrupt. Cherokee would lose about $25 million when that happened. But this is 1% of their net worth, and as long as the average return, including those losses, is positive, they are fine. Industrial Heat was not Cherokee, that was obvious, even if Rossi had visions of billion-dollar signs.
If all the people who write on blogs were to agree on Rossi Genius or Rossi Fraud, it would make no difference to Industrial Heat. For them to hire APCO for any serious activity would make no sense, waste of money. For them to consult with a public relations specialist, once, as they knew it had fallen apart with Rossi before March, that could make sense. And then from that email cc, Sifferkoll spins a vast tale of sock puppet armies.
There are such armies, you can buy them for $5 on a certain web site. They offer, for example, upvote rings, 100 upvotes for $5. They offer "mature accounts" on some sites. But hiring someone who has actual experience in a field, a known writer and author .... expensive. After I was banned on Wikipedia, and having become an expert on the system, I was paid as a consultant several times, and was paid $50 per hour. Which was substantially less than what I made as a designer. Because I care about LENR, because it is life-dedication-worthy, I often put in 10 hour days. Living on social security.
The paranoid vision doesn't care about practicality. It cares about emotional impact. The idea of a sock puppet army engaged to crush the energy future of humanity gets some people excited. How Horrible! However, these are mostly people with low social power. Where is the crowd-source project to raise money for Rossi to defend against these "libels"? It's all talk, the inmates in an asylum planning and scheming and arguing, and repeating crazy tropes to each other, with, "Yeah! Right!"
Meanwhile there are real people with real money who saw the situation with LENR in 2012 and decided to break it open, to invest some serious money. You know who they are. They are not all-mouth and no-action. In fact, they kept it very quiet, they barely allowed mention of what they were doing. They did no recruiting of people to write for them and to attack Rossi. That would have been visible, and there is no trace of it. Nobody is being paid to write about Rossi and Rossi v. Darden.
Increasingly, those who want to invest in LENR will seek them out, will at least talk to them. That is likely what happened with Woodford, which claims to have been following LENR for years. Rossi v. Darden is demonstrating how serious -- and patient -- they were.
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The "incredible" part is not that it could work to make money, the incredible is that till nowadays (and excluded friends and fellows and employees, for which is normal) there might be people wondering if it was a scam and - should they really accept the fact - who the scammer(s) might ever be...!!
If I didn't know human nature, I'd consider it incredible that there are people who, when they find out that a "partner" who paid $11.5 million for the privilege is not satisfied, conclude that this partner, out of pocket that money (and actually much more), is the scammer, trying to trick Rossi into revealing his secrets.
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Quote from "Abdulla FUD master"
The paranoia of Planet Rossi imagines that IH has some huge motive to discredit Rossi on the blogs, but the blogs are completely irrelevant to IH operations and plans. IH is not soliciting investment by public means.
IH is not doing it to get investment. Their plan has always been to pocket Rossi IP without paying and possibly/probably to delay public LENR break through as a proxy for larger US interests, incl int'l AGW agenda/taxation, etc. Goal being to keep Rossi in a tight leash ...
Reason to discredit Rossi on blogs is the of course to make it harder for HIM to take off on his own; producing industrial scale LENR. In this, the interests of IH and the establishment is aligned ...
Quote from "Abdul"If all the people who write on blogs were to agree on Rossi Genius or Rossi Fraud, it would make no difference to Industrial Heat. For them to hire APCO for any serious activity would make no sense, waste of money. For them to consult with a public relations specialist, once, as they knew it had fallen apart with Rossi before March, that could make sense. And then from that email cc, Sifferkoll spins a vast tale of sock puppet armies.
Yeah... APCO was in the game already july 2015 (exhibit 19). It was probably their intent to pay Rossi the $5M (or something) to stop the GPT but keep the IP & LA valid... (because when Rossi offered to buy back the LA they refused. Easy to forget isn't it Abdul). When that was not possible "DoD" Murray came along to trash the test, but at that point Rossi was of course very suspicious.
So my "vast tale" actually turned out to be quite accurate, I would say.
And APCO are the world leaders in professional astroturfing; we are not talking $5/h likes, but more like endless rants of FUD to diffuse, divert and decieve. (do you see what I mean?)
And using the epithet "paranoid" on anyone stating the obvious is astroturfing 101... You should know that...
(BTW, I hade a closer look at the "Abdulla FUD Rant Production Facility" and only during the last hour it flooded the forum with close to 5 pages of useless words and repeats. A job well done I suppose.)
