Rossi: No Further Black Box Testing

    • Official Post

    [feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/08/12/rossi-no-further-black-box-testing/']Andrea Rossi responded to a suggestion on the Journal of Nuclear Physics by Gerard McEk that Rossi do a black box test of an E-Cat plant with a well known testing company to shoe convincing proof that the E-Cat is real, and open up the large scale commercial market. Rossi responded: Andrea Rossi August 12, […][/feedquote]

  • Apparently 55% of ECW voters are positive on Rossi technology. Rossi himself comments "he-he-he" here, as a PS to his saying that no more testing is needed for credibility because there have been so many honest and credible tests.


    Such a close attention to the belief of his ECW flock mildly supports my idea that he reckons what matters in his work is dramatic effect rather than rigorous testing. It is to IH's credit that they disagree.

  • The following is my idea. Andrea Rossi has an effect that can be extremely powerful, yielding outrageous levels of excess heat and even allowing for multiple hours of heat after death. He has witnessed reactors producing such obvious excess heat frequently enough that he often utilizes measurement methodologies that are not nearly as rigorous as some would desire. To him, the XHE produced is every bit as present and real as the heat and force produced by the ignition of gasoline vapor in the cylinder of an automobile. Therefore, he foregoes the use of cutting edge and extremely precise measurement devices -- which could in excess be overkill -- to utilize a more "steampunk" style. Not counting the one year test of the 1MW plant (we need more data and evidence to determine a number of different facts) his methods have more often than not been sufficient to measure excess heat. In his mind, he has been rigorous *enough* and instead desires to focus on moving forward and enhancing the technology rather than what he would feel as over complicating his measurement setups. With the Quark performing so well, he's more confident in his technology than ever before.

  • Rossi's position has not moved on iota since 2011. In 2013, Industrial Heat wanted Rossi to include a major independent consulting firm, and Rossi said it would "make big problems" for him.


    Of course it would.


    Meanwhile, the customer area! Taa daa! IH has filed an Amended Complaint, and Exhibit 26 shows the ... customer area. You can see the whole thing, enclosed in a low wall. Inside the enclosed area is a large black "box."


    Quote

    82. Indeed, when Murray eventually gained access to the Plant in February 2016 and examined the Plant, the methodology being used to operate the Plant, and the methodology being used to measure those operations, he immediately recognized that those methodologies were fatally flawed. Some of the flaws that he was quickly able to identify are explained in Exhibit 5. Murray also recognized that the building in which the Plant was located had no method to ventilate the heat that would be produced by the Plant were it producing the amount of steam claimed by Rossi, Leonardo, and Penon such that persons would not have been able to work in the building if the Rossi/Leonardo/Penon claims were true. This conflicted with the claims of individuals who had been in the building when the Plant was operating, all of whom claimed the temperature in the building was near or not much greater than the outside temperature.
    Photographs of the building ceiling from the inside are attached hereto as Exhibit 26.


    That is one very large black box test, eh?

  • Apparently 55% of ECW voters are positive on Rossi technology. Rossi himself comments "he-he-he" here, as a PS to his saying that no more testing is needed for credibility because there have been so many honest and credible tests.


    Such a close attention to the belief of his ECW flock mildly supports my idea that he reckons what matters in his work is dramatic effect rather than rigorous testing. It is to IH's credit that they disagree.


    My sense is that most of those who had been following ECW left in disgust long ago. So what is left are largely firm believers, even fanatics. There are plenty of skeptical voices. to be sure. There, as here, Sifferkoll adds nothing but FUD. He thinks. Nobody is actually confused but him.


    It's a wonder that the big black box in the Customer area didn't have big letters SEKRIT on it. Really, we couldn't make this up.


    Supposedly IH could remove their plant at an time. (One fanatic ECWer said all IH would have had to do would have been to call the police.) The police are going to dismantle the customer area so that the E-Cat containers could be removed? It looks like there is no access to the back bays at all.


    (I had the layout backwards. I think I was fooled by the taped-off office windows. Access to the Plant was through the back bay or other back door. But, no, the police, if there was conflict, would not allow removal unless the renter of the space permitted it. They don't make legal judgments.)

  • Quote

    Not counting the one year test of the 1MW plant (we need more data and evidence to determine a number of different facts) his methods have more often than not been sufficient to measure excess heat.


    That is false. None of Rossi's tests have been so sufficient.

  • The last test was not a black box. He has a patent. There is no need to hide it from anyone.


    So far, all of the more rigorous tests (using the same formula as the patent), have demonstrated no excess heat (at least 28 from me, several dozen from Ed Storms, at least that many from JPB, who knows how many Brian Albiston, MFMP, Brian Ahern, Mizzou, and others have done). There are non-replicable or methodologically-flawed positive results. There is inundo and anecdote in support (so and so says this, so and so says they got amazing results, "I have seen things you people wouldn't believe."). The empirical data say it doesn't work. IH couldn't get it to work even with ARs help. But he and his gang of two or three want everyone to believe that the magic transplant to Florida transformed a non-working plant to one that developed a COP of 50. Perhaps he couldn't use the stethascope in NC. ;)


    Now whether some minor gain can be achieved based on Piantelli and Focardi, I don't know. Maybe. We'll see.

    • Official Post

    H couldn't get it to work even with ARs help


    I'm not sure that is strictly correct Jack. Visitors to see the set-up in Raleigh say they saw working reactors made entirely by IH with Rossi's supervision - but they were hands on. After they were made Darden kept them in his office safe until it was run-time. All very vague and unsatisfactory, for sure- but diametrically opposed to your assertion above.


    It is (currently) a riddle wrapped in an enigma inside a mystery. Bleugh!

  • Quote

    Visitors to see the set-up in Raleigh say they saw working reactors made entirely by IH with Rossi's supervision - but they were hands on.


    Were they perhaps working according to the flawed Lugano measurement method, which even as modified by Levy suggestion (reply to Mats recently) would massively over-read?

  • Quote

    Who knows about the famous emissivity protocols (FFS don't start that again) - I don't have that level of detail - but IH were allegedly in charge and (as we are often told) they have their own experts. One run - there were several - was said to end in meltdown. 'Everything was peachy ' one observer said.


    Yes, but IH experts were deceived for a long time by Lugano. They claim to have noticed the work discrediting it only early in 2015, and then, they claim, there was an argument, with some still convinced by Levi's "it would have COP=2 even if emissivity were 1" false argument. When were these positive comments?

  • I'm not sure that is strictly correct Jack. Visitors to see the set-up in Raleigh say they saw working reactors made entirely by IH with Rossi's supervision - but they were hands on. After they were made Darden kept them in his office safe until it was run-time. All very vague and unsatisfactory, for sure- but diametrically opposed to your assertion above.


    Yes, sadly another anecdote, but no data. I don't know if it is correct. IH says in their counter-claim that they never got any XH. I think there was some qualification to that like (credible or repeatable), but could be wrong.

    • Official Post

    Post Lugano - soon after Rossi went to NC. Gary Whosit of 'Shut Down Rossi' fame (I forget his name) made a big song and dance about these tests carried on in a 'To Let' warehouse in or near Raleigh. He tipped off the NC EPA who paid the place a visit +to check for radiation - and found nothing - nor any evidence anyone had ever been there. But the birds had flown. And if Cherokee (The Reclamation Company) can't suborn an EPA guy in NC it would be a poor do. Those who were present really were present. And that includes TD and Rossi and 'others unknown'. If you want dates troll the Shut Down Rossi or Krivit sites- though someone here may know them.


    But what these tests were worth when viewed through the eyes of a skeptic I have zero idea. I suspect (but only suspect) that Jed knows more about this than me, btw, but won't say..

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