Rossi: Customer’s Manufacturing Process was Endothermic

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    "Telecopier" is a trademarked name also. Lawyers usually avoid using trademarked names in official paperwork.


    That among about a thousand other things that a "lawyer usually would avoid" in this circus, from both sides of the fence, I would add. I see that Engineer48 is now pushing a ridiculous narrative that the document is an inside joke, I would say that would be something far more odd for a lawyer to send out. His notion is just another good example of how ridiculous explanations must ALWAYS be concocted to fit questions and inconsistencies regarding Rossi/Ecat. Saunas...foam board...inside jokes...Engineer48 is on quite a fantasy roll!

    This confirmation of an endothermic process is really strange, even for Rossi. I have followed this story since 2011 (as many have) and seen several big "claims" by Rossi, such as getting a safety certificate, which in reality he did not obtain a working, commercial safety certificate. The one that was published was a voluntary review and quite clearly states is not to be used for any sales or commercial purposes. Bloggers posted it continually that it was proof of a working plant. My point is that Rossi made a claim that had some basis of truth, but in reality meant nothing. His description of IH as a "customer" may have been "true" in that they may have purchased a plant. However, they were a partner in reality, not an end user. Again, grains of truth, but not a true picture. The list goes on.


    This confirmation that the customer's use was endothermic is really problematic, even for a Rossi claim.
    #1, he is doubling down that there was a real customer! He will not be able to explain this away. That actual production was being made.


    #2, his confirming that there was little waste heat due to the "customer's production" as being endothermic equally disturbing, or should be to any that have any faith left in Rossi.
    No company in Florida "melts ice" and pays $1000 per day to do so. A real company is only going to pay $1000 per day for a year to make a sellable product. A prospective company is not going to pay $1000 a day to "test" someone else's design and equipment. The volume of material in and out of that small facility required to consume that much heat is extraordinary. I have 30 years manufacturing experience. To consume that much energy would require a LOT of material and there would still be a LOT of waste heat. (As many have pointed out)


    This is seriously puzzling and I do not know what individuals, such as Engineer48 can say about this? He states he is well versed in steam applications, so he should realize that size of the facility would not handle that much energy. Forget about waste heat, I am talking about bringing in raw material, storing it, the size of manufacturing equipment, fork trucks, quality control, storing finished products, etc. etc. Equipment using that much energy requires maintenance and down time. Mechanics and support equipment for maintenance. It could not happen in that small space and now doubling down on an endothermic manufacturing process?


    Could this be the reveal of an actual breaking point with Rossi? That he may truly be losing it? As mentioned before, he often made claims that were then blown out of proportion by his supporters and he would then not "quell" those speculations. But here, he is clearly stating as fact, something that is going to be almost impossible to explain or prove. Of course the fallback claim of some is that he is "intentionally misleading" the competition. With the lawsuit in place and now the real possibility of criminal charges (89 million can very easily bring criminal charges if fraud is proven) I cannot fathom his continuing such a story! Has he really lost it?


    This with his extremely extraordinary claims about the Quark are reaching the "twilight zone". I would think even for Engineer48?

    I think there will come a point when the realities of the Court process get to Rossi. He is still just saying things:


    Blogs speculate about evaporative cooling => Rossi says he has that
    Blogs speculate about endothermic process (particularly silly) => Rossi says he has that


    I guess he still has not worked out that saying random things will not help him when it comes to the Court case.

    Also, it's important to differentiate between statements that people put to Rossi, to which he replies, cryptically, "yes," or "no," and statements that he himself makes. I have not seen him make any direct statements about the process being endothermic, although I might have missed something.

    Quote

    differentiate between statements that people put to Rossi, to which he replies, cryptically, "yes," or "no,"


    Technically he does make the statements himself - either by allowing them to be asked (out of many more he probably deletes) or by asking them himself as "Jackie" or "Bob" or whatever.

    Quote from Jami

    Technically he does make the statements himself - either by allowing them to be asked (out of many more he probably deletes) or by asking them himself as "Jackie" or "Bob" or whatever.


    Although it is likely to be the case in some instances, it cannot be assumed in every instance. For whatever it's worth, there's a level of plausible deniability that doesn't exist when he makes the statements himself.

    Quote from Jami

    Technically he does make the statements himself - either by allowing them to be asked (out of many more he probably deletes) or by asking them himself as "Jackie" or "Bob" or whatever.


    Actually, Jackie seems to be a real person. Jacky on the other hand... (not to be confused with "Jacky" [in quotes].

    Jacky
    April 15, 2016 at 8:06 PM


    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi,


    At the beginning I was convinced you were wrong and IH was right, but
    after reading all the rants of Jed Rothwell and the other hatchet men of
    IH and looked through the papers that have been published in the
    internet, I changed idea. You are right in the dispute against IH.


    What convinced me is a foundamental thing. While IH was raising 50
    millions from Woodford ( whose role has to be analyzed carefully ) JT
    Vaughn, in the same very days was writing to the authorities that your
    plant was not working and used a physicist connected with your <---------------- WTF? (ed.)
    competitors to induce the healthcare dept. of Florida to close your
    plant and interrupt the test. This fact, easy to understand reading
    carefully all the papers in the internet, clearly discloses the strategy
    of IH: use you to collect millions from investors, but, at the same
    time, stop you to forbid you to complete the test, so that they can
    avoid to pay you. Their strategy was, and is, to justify with their
    investors saying they are collecting money for an R&D that will
    never end…and block any factual development of your E-Cat, at the same
    time buying toilet papers to show to the investors ( and the auditors of
    Woodford and company ) that they have a lot of IP at the stake and that
    you are only one piece of the mosaic; this way they justify with the
    investors that they got 50 millions and eventually lost your license ,
    which initialy was the pillar of their value.


    From one side we have a man that has worked 16-18 hours per day, risking
    his health while making the Guinea pig, putting all his life in this
    risky endevour, on the other side we have financial smartasses that
    without working got 50 millions, or more, from Woodford, started a 200
    milions concern in China, and at the same time tried to “kill” you: look
    at what JT Vaughn said to the North Carilina healthcare authority
    exactly while he was colecting 50 millions from Woodford. Why ? Because
    they never wanted a real work done, they always wanted only sell toilet
    paper to make easy money.


    I was an enemy of you, Dr Rossi, but Rothwell and his paid armada of
    hatchets has convinced me that you are fighting against sharks to defend
    a work you have dedicated your life to. This having been said, now do
    not lose time in chatters with these assholes, continue to focus on your
    work and put the E-Cat on the market. This is the sole way you have to
    sweep away this trash.


    An admirer of your efforts,
    May God help you
    Jacky


    I always love reading bedtime stories that Rossi reads to Rossi so he can sleep soundly at night. This one reads like a fantasy novel where our character Jacky goes from an enemy of the grand lord to a deep admirer supporting the fight against the sharks who are dedicated to end our fearless leaders reign. Priceless...truly priceless.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Spot on Alain.


    The reaction that Rossi's customer has come up with is just as mysterious as the one that Rossi is using. How did Rossi become familiar with this customer who is really holding their technology very closely?


    A SPECULATIVE answer to this might be that Rossi is a customer of this secretive customer. Ross must use the product of this customer. There must be a pre-established longstanding relationship between this customer and Rossi.


    Rossi must get a precursor of his nickel powder from this company. We have heard the the reaction that this mystery company uses is a variation of the one that Johnson Matthey uses. So this endothermic mystery reaction must be one that produces a nickel based catalyst because we fairly much know that Rossi uses nickel powder.


    IH must not know what nickel based catalyst product that Rossi is using, and Rossi is not about to let anybody know who this company is and what product that this company generates.


    Rossi must have wanted to improve this company's cost effectiveness for his own benefit to reduce the cost of the catalyst that he is using. There must be a freinly relationship between the secret company and Rossi that would inspire this company to get involved with Rossi.


    When the test was setup, Rossi must not have envisioned that the identity of this company would be an issue in a court case.


    The take away from this speculation, being part of Rossi's product supply chain, the degree of secrecy that this company was subjected to must be integrally linked to Rossi's own technology.

    Edited once, last by axil ().

    Like 1

    Quote from Eric Walker

    My hunch is that Rossi neither believes what he's saying about an endothermic process nor does he care that people can readily identify it as implausible.


    My hunch is that there was possibly an endothermic process taking place, plus water cooling. Try to falsify that.

    Quote from LENR Calender

    Well according to the letterhead in exhibit 18, they were manufacturing Johnson Matthew" "Platinum Sponges"


    This is inaccurate. The (sloppy one time) letterhead stated "Advanced Derivatives of..." The letterhead does not purport any direct relationship with Johnson Matthe[y].

    There are laws of physics and chemistry, and no secret technology can not change the thermodynamic data indicators. How can locally change the acceleration of gravity in the same building, so can not change the shape of the heat capacity of the nickel sensitive technology.

    Quote from Eric Walker

    IH Fanboy wrote:


    My hunch is that there was possibly an endothermic process taking place, plus water cooling. Try to falsify that.


    I think the burden of proof is on you at this point.


    I just present it as one possibility that hasn't been explained away yet. Abd holds out water cooling as a plausible scenario. And at $5k per month, the cost is well within the scope of the test. All we need is a water/sewer bill to verify. Should be easy enough for IH to produce (or request to be produced) as evidence in court.


    Edit: with all of IH's sleuthing, did they even think to monitor the water meter over time? How simple that would have been!

    Quote

    My hunch is that there was possibly an endothermic process taking place, plus water cooling. Try to falsify that.


    My hunch is that invisible pixies at the bottom of my garden sing inaudible carols to the moon - which makes it rise. Try to falsify that!


    We do not get far in the world with this type of "make a guess and if it can't be falsified keep it on the table" stuff!

    Perhaps we'll see that water bill, and Rossi won't get in trouble for flooding the lines with gobs of hot water. But note: a water-cooled industrial process that cools the heat generated in 1 MW power production down to something tolerable for humans in an enclosure is different than an endothermic industrial process that does that without the need for much water. What do you think about the arguments that even a highly endothermic industrial process is going to be quite inefficient, i.e., allow a huge fraction (the majority?) of waste heat to escape in huge quantities? Do you go along with the suggestion that there is an efficient endothermic process sucking up nearly all of that 1 MW? If not, the endothermic industrial process is most likely not relevant, and it is any water cooling being used that is relevant. Or do you disagree?

    Quote from THHuxley


    My hunch is that invisible pixies at the bottom of my garden sing
    inaudible carols to the moon - which makes it rise. Try to falsify that!


    We do not get far in the world with this type of "make a guess and if it can't be falsified keep it on the table" stuff!


    So in other words, this one stumps you.

    Quote

    I just present it as one possibility that hasn't been explained away yet.


    As in my post above, and Eric's point, there is no requirement to explain away every outlandish suggestion - and it will in most cases never be possible to do this. Jed, who likes to make categorical remarks, will agree that nothing in the physical world is 100% certain, and that we make categorical statements when things are near enough: 95%, 99%, or 99.999% depending on context. You'd have to ask him what level of certainly he attaches to his statements here.

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