Can we talk about Holmlid?

  • These are figures from the paper linked above, which is a bit dated.

    i3puUFx.png HuFUfsY.png

    The "emitter" is the Fe2O3:K catalyst, which is directly heated by a current passed through the tube holding it. Hydrogen diffuses through the heated catalyst which forms a loosely bound "cloud" of Rydberg matter and ultra-dense hydrogen material around it, and is here probed with the laser at a small distance from its surface.

    The ultra-dense hydrogen produced also falls on the metallic foil/holder assembly that can be seen in the photo, as if it were a liquid. In newer papers the laser would be typically focused there.

  • What I know is, heated iron oxide gets reduced with hydrogen rather smoothly. The reduced iron is dense and ferromagnetic and thus it will fall down at the foil where it could be affected with magnets in similar way, like prof. Holmlid is claiming for "Meissner effect at room temperature" in dense hydrogen clusters. Even the Fe3O4 and ferrous (II) oxides are ferromagnetic. Curie temperatue of Iron (Fe) is 1043 K, Iron(III) oxide (Fe2O3) 948 K, Iron(II,III) oxide (FeOFe2O3) 858 K.

    I'm not saying, it's just the case of Holmlid's experiments - but their thorough replication and revision would be useful here.

  • I suspect that iron peaks would arrive at a later time than the lighter and much more tightly bound ultra-dense hydrogen atoms in the time-of-flight analysis that Holmlid usually does, so they would probably be easily recognizable.

    This being said, these catalysts are not just composed of iron oxide but also other oxides (chromium, potassium and other promoters that are typical for these industrial catalysts) which slow down reduction and improve structural stability. A low hydrogen pressure should also help.

  • I guess this explains why sometimes Holmlid uses precious metals as laser targets, like for example Iridium or Platinum. It appears that in Intense ionizing radiation from laser-induced processes in ultra-dense deuterium D(−1) (2014) he suspected that the ultra-dense hydrogen absorbed between atoms (interstitial) on/within the surface of the laser target contributes to a non-linear behavior which increases the total energy release. Apparently this effect would be greater on "catalytic metals". This is by the way also interesting in the context of the possible absorption of ultra-dense hydrogen clusters into the bulk of metals as I previously suggested in this thread.





  • Iridium, platinum and palladium reflect high frequency visible light which produces a good substrate for the production of surface plasmon polaritons when blue/green/uv light interact between electrons and hydrogen. This mechanism excites the spin waves on the surface of the ultra dense deuterium with surface palsmon polaritons thereby generating a monopole magnetic beam that disrupts protons that generate mesons.


    Polaritons are produced by a enveloping mirror effect that bounces photons between a reflecting metal and a insulating gas(deuterium) so that these photons can become entangled with electrons in the spin wave of the ultra dense deuterium.

  • axil

    Sometimes (for example here or here) Holmlid uses his laser at a 1064nm wavelength, which is in the near-infrared region.

    Like nickel, copper is a good match with infrared.


    Further, 1064 nm light seems to give less reflection than 532 nm from the Cu surfaces, thus improving the thermal calibration of the setup.


  • axil

    I've found a similar graph showing also Nickel and Platinum, though Google Images. They don't seem so good in the wavelengths of interest (532/1064 nm) compared to other metals.


    Iridium seems to perform worse on this regard

    EDIT1: my mistake, I didn't pay attention to the wavelength scale of the graph I previously used for it.

    EDIT2: here's a graph using data from this link. This one should be correct. It seems to behave similarly to Ni and Pt:


    I think the choice of Ir could have more to do with the absorption of ultra-dense hydrogen on its surface which Holmlid remarked in an older paper. In the paper you took that excerpt from (Heat generation above break-even from laser-induced fusion in ultra-dense deuterium) I found that this property is mentioned again:


    The ultra-dense deuterium is partially absorbed by the Ir, but finally falls down to the internal bottom of the Cu cylinder

  • axil

    I think you're doing the same mistake I did before editing my previous post: I didn't pay attention on the units of measurement for the wavelength. Here it's in ångströms, which are equal to 0.1 nanometers. Therefore this graph only shows the 10-100 nm wavelength region which is in the extreme UV region.

  • I'm preparing a list of questions strictly related to the experimental side of Holmlid's studies to be submitted to him in case somebody decides to attempt a replication. The idea is taking advantage of the circumstances to clarify some of the less known/clear aspects. Does anybody have suggestions for other questions along these lines?

    * * *

    - Can suitable fresh catalysts eventually work just by depleting their excessive K content by heating in a vacuum or do they have to be treated in a hydrocarbon/steam atmosphere for light graphite coverage and other transformations that normally occur with typical usage in an industrial reactor?

    - Can all industrial Fe2O3:K catalysts eventually work after a proper preparation or could for example an excessive initial potassium content (e.g. >50% wt.), even when depleted, prevent this? Could the absence or presence of certain promoters also have an influence (e.g. chromium, which is used in the original Shell 105)?

    - Can you describe in detail is the typical preparation you do to your catalysts? For example, what hydrocarbon do you use, what gas is used to flush the vacuum chamber, etc.?

    - Can you suggest a vendor who could sell to individuals Fe2O3:K catalysts that you know to be particularly suited for these experiments?

    - Can you suggest macroscopic indicators of when a catalyst is ready to use for H RM and H(0) production which could be used in a simple, inexpensive heated reactor? The idea in this specific case is being able to prepare many catalyst pellets at the same time conveniently and not necessarily demonstrate the existence of Rydberg matter.

    - [Follow-up question] for example, according to prof. Michael I. Ojovan Rydberg matter should be a good getter material and its formation may cause pressure drops, which could be used as a RM detection parameter. Have you observed this in your experiments, especially with K RM (i.e. with no hydrogen admission)?

    - Do you think that acquiring used Fe2O3:K catalysts at peak activity from actual industrial reactors could shortcut the preparation needed for H(0) production or would these not work?

    - Is the hydrogen flow rate through the catalyst when producing H(0) an important parameter? What it usually is in your experiments and for how long is it maintained?

    - Could you clarify the hydrogen flow rate in Efficient source for the production of ultradense deuterium D(-1) for laser-induced fusion (ICF) (2011)? It seems at first a bit fast for the initial and target pressure reported. Does condensation of Hydrogen to H(0) and H(1) make pressure rise significantly slower than normal?

    - When admitting hydrogen through the heated catalyst(s) do you typically use constant catalyst temperature and hydrogen flow or may these advantageously be pulsed?

    - Is it actually possible to inadvertently produce “too much” H(0)? What would happen to this material after hydrogen is admitted through the catalyst up to several bar of pressure?

    - Is a voltage sometimes applied through at least part of the catalysts in your experiments for H(0) production with positive results? From Emission of highly excited electronic states of potassium from cryptomelane nanorods it's known that a small voltage may promote RM K formation.

    - Does the spontaneous emission of high energy particles (muons, etc.) also occur with p(0) or only with D(0)?

    - Has diffusion of H(0) inside non-porous materials (like for example the H(0) carrier materials used as laser targets) been investigated? in a recent paper it's suggested that small H(0) clusters are expected to diffuse rapidly in the surface due to the large difference in scale between regular atoms and H(0) atoms.

    - [Follow-up question] for example, even if retrieving deeply diffused H(0) inside a material might be difficult, perhaps it could be possible to use it in different ways like applying a current to such material or other impulsive triggers. Do you think it would be possible to use and study the H(0) in this way?

    - With a bond energy of 320 eV/atom, is the energy of formation of H(0) above conventional chemical energy? If yes, wouldn't this alone already be commercially useful?

    - If the interaction of H(0) with oxygen can form water (as reported in, would be the energy of formation of that water molecule be different than with regular hydrogen?

    - Have you tried producing H(0) with a hydrogen-noble gas mixture or admitting hydrogen with the vacuum chamber filled with residual noble gas atmosphere? Some researchers in related fields claim that there may be benefits in doing so.

    - Have you tried using gold foil as a laser target and H(0) carrier?

    - Could you provide more detailed photos of the apparati used in your experiments?

    - Is it important that the walls of the reactor chamber are made of a metal like for example stainless steel or could they be made to a large extent of glass (e.g. quartz) or transparent polymers without affecting the results when probing H(0) on metal surfaces immediately nearby the emitter?

  • Given that he's sometimes mentioned about admitting gaseous hydrocarbons and air during catalyst preparation (presumably in the same reactor used for the actual experiments) I suspect that it's not seriously problematic. He's got has a turbo-molecular vacuum pump and together with hydrogen admission and subsequent pumping cycles that might be sufficient. The catalysts once ready are also seemingly able to produce small clusters of Rydberg matter of N2 molecules, which haven't been shown (yet) to have an ultra-dense form. However, the ultra-dense hydrogen produced can apparently form water with oxygen.

    Interestingly, some time ago in an email he's told me that oxygen should not be "avoided too much" (paraphrasing) as it keeps the catalyst (Fe2O3) in its active oxidic form, so I don't think that extreme hydrogen purity in these experiments would be particularly helpful.

    Nevertheless I'm adding it to my list of questions!

    EDIT: here's another one inspired by what axil proposed some time ago:

    - Can the hydrogen admitted contain a significant fraction (e.g. >15-20%) of deuterium/protium and still work for H(0) production or does it have to be substantially (e.g. >99%) composed of either gases?

  • axil wrote this on Vortex-l:

    Holmlid is not dead yet; why not? Why is no radiation detected by Holmlid even when he has detected muons by the ton?

    In a few papers (example) he measures the spectrum of the radiation caused by muon capture reactions in different materials with a scintillation detector. I don't think he's around the apparatus while it's running; I suspect he's running it remotely (see excerpt below from from the linked paper).

    It's probably a question worth asking though, which could be added to the previous list:

    - In your experiments you have calculated that the reaction can release hundreds of times the energy of the input laser pulse in the form of charged particles like muons, which leave the apparatus. How do you usually shield yourself and your laboratory from this emission?

  • Was anybody aware that in the early '90s Holmlid studied the formation of Rydberg states and matter of alkali atoms and hydrogen desorbing from heated (~1000-1100+ °K) graphite surfaces? I was but I've never looked at those studies more in detail until recently.

    The excited states of hydrogen detected at that time were in molecular form as graphite alone doesn't dissociate hydrogen efficiently. In general the takeaway message from early papers from Holmlid's group is that atoms and small molecules desorbing from non-metallic surfaces (metal-oxides or carbon/graphite) can easily do it in an excited state, which can in turn form a condensed state of matter called Rydberg matter.

    However, only Rydberg matter produced from atomic hydrogen can fall to its lowest state which reportedly enables the transition to the ultra-dense form studied in the past few years by Holmlid.

    Lately I have been wondering if given these premises, carbon-supported catalysts that are designed to efficiently split off hydrogen atoms could in principle also be used for the formation of Rydberg matter of hydrogen atoms (and thus ultra-dense hydrogen).

    I've also been wondering if this property of non-metallic surfaces in general of forming Rydberg states may also be related to the hydrogen spillover effect often discussed in catalysis (and still poorly understood), which incidentally usually happens on the catalyst support - carbon or oxide/ceramic. It might turn out that materials and experimental conditions that enhance this spillover effect may also enhance the probability of seeing anomalies.

  • I don't think he's around the apparatus while it's running; I suspect he's running it remotely (see excerpt below from from the linked paper).

    Holmlid has spent a great deal of time in experimentation using his equipment before he discovered that muons were being emitted by his experiment. During that time, he most likely was colocated with his experiment and in close proximity with it. Holmlid also stated that the fluorescent lighting in his lab generated muons so it is reasonable to assume that there was a time when Holmlid and others were exposed to subatomic particles and their byproducts without knowing it when they handled the fuel. Holmlid also said the muons were emitted without stimulation from light and decreased gradually over time which was also an occasion of unintended exposure to subatomic particle emissions.

  • axil

    He might have been occasionally exposed, but since MeV particles and radiation other than muons were also previously observed, I don't think he's kept doing experiments all along without at least some sort of shielding. No photos of his laboratory or other information currently exist to confirm this, however.