Production of fuel with COP above 1 (electric energy input/heat energy output) patent about to expire in 2021

  • In a nearly random search to find more supporting data for the idea of the much maligned energetic overunity in the Production of combustible gases from aqueous solutions by means of plasma arcs, akin to what can is doing in some of his experiments, I found this European Patent filed in 2001 and granted in 2013, near to expire in 2021, which lists Ruggero Maria Santilli as inventor but a wide array of companies as patent owners (depending on the country).


    I was under the impression that Santilli had lost most of his battles to patent this seemingly impossible aspect of his inventions, at least by currently widely accepted scientific knowledge, so it was quite a shock for me to see that he obtained a patent for it, and that is about to expire.


    https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1412080A1


    Over-unity production of clean new energies by recycling contaminated liquid waste

    Abstract

    Reactors (108) for the total recycling of contaminated liquid waste, which produce a clean burning combustible gas, usable heat, and solid precipitates, a main feature being that a total of the available energy in the combustible gas and in the produced heat is greater than an electric energy needed to operate the apparatus. The latter feature is called commercial over-unity, and essentially establishes the capability of the new reactors to tap energy from the liquid molecules in full conformity with the principle of conservation of the energy. Different embodiments include the over-unity recycling of automotive antifreeze and oil waste, a new method for the production of a fuel from crude oil, for desalting sea water and for recycling biologically contaminated liquid waste, such as town sewage, into a clean burning combustible gas, nutrient rich water useful for irrigation, and soiled precipitates useful for fertilizers.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • There’s one output that Santilli overlooked in his calculations of overunity. He considers only the output of the combustion energy of the gas and the heat produced, but when one looks this process replicated in transparent reactors, the intense light could be harvested by means of photovoltaic cells, much as one of the iterations of Mills suncells attempted to do.


    One more point of similarity between Mills and Santilli’s ideas.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • For what it's worth, although sparks (arcs of brief duration) may occasionally occur, the plasma electrolysis experiments I have been attempting recently are generally considered a form of glow plasma rather than electric arcs.

  • For what it's worth, although sparks (arcs of brief duration) may occasionally occur, the plasma electrolysis experiments I have been attempting recently are generally considered a form of glow plasma rather than electric arcs.


    Plasma is involved in both, hence my bundling up them together, as the principle as stated by Santilli is that the magnetic field of the plasma is intense enough to create the energetic anomaly. You can get more or less overall efficiency but is always more than predicted by classical theories.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Upon skimming the document(s) with slightly more care, I noticed that either pure water or antifreeze solution could be used in the same process. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol solution) has a higher "commercial efficiency". The carbon content in the compound contributes to forming the clusters called Santilli magnecules.

  • Upon skimming the document(s) with slightly more care, I noticed that either pure water or antifreeze solution could be used in the same process. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol solution) has a higher "commercial efficiency". The carbon content in the compound contributes to forming the clusters called Santilli magnecules.


    The calculations for Antifreeze were included mostly because Santilli was initially trying to market his Hadronic Reactors as a way to recycle many kinds of liquid wastes that are produced in great amounts and are hard or even expensive to dispose off (as a way to generate revenue just by the fact that you receive the waste to be processed), and it seems that Anti Freeze was one of the wastes that was more attractive from this point of view. But any liquid waste either mixed with water, or not, if is sufficiently non viscous, could be processed.


    I was very interested in this technology for a long time, but the price of the smallest plant (and the unavaiability of it for lease), and the fact that I had no capital and I was applying for a grant and it would only pay for a lease, not for a purchase, was the end of my attempt to pilot test it for the potential of profitable recovery of municipal sewage and recycle of the clean water for irrigation. With a succesful pilot I could have searched for scale up partners.


    I think the idea is still, and even more now than then, completely valid and relevant, and with the patent close to expire, I would think this has much more chances now of success as I know a lot more about the technology now than 14 years ago (when I did my attempts and contacts with the Magnegas company) and I think that today I could build a small plant for USD30K. Unfortunately, in that time Innovation grants in Chile were much more abundant and pilot scale was favored, now they shrunk considerably the funding, and what is considered pilot scale is mostly benchtop really, I would have to do the whole project with USD 20K. Still interesting, but got already much things to juggle.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina

    I was looking at this more from an experimental point of view. I hadn't read enough about Santilli's work to know that solutions of water and organic/carbon compounds could be used as well, even advantageously for the process. This variation could be possibly also incorporated into tamer glow discharge electrolysis experiments—coincidentally I've been doing that recently, but mostly because it seemed to work better under my testing conditions (there are also theoretical reasons as for why non-metal surfaces in the form of small particles may help).

  • By the way, a more concrete link between the above and glow discharge electrolysis could be that it's considered advantageous to have in the electrolyte solution a "hydrogen scavenger" to increase the non-faradaic yield of H2, generally in the form of an alcohol or other organic compound miscible in water like acetone. The discharge process can also be used for treating waste waters, which is similar to what Santilli suggests to be doing with his method.


    See for example Sen Gupta in this general review on the subject https://doi.org/10.1007/s11090-017-9804-z (open access):


    Quote

    [...] As one would expect, the potentiality of generating high local concentrations of H· and OH· radicals and H2O2 in the liquid phase reaction zone near the anode plasma-anolyte solution interface made anodic CGDE well exploited for applications in synthetic chemistry, waste water treatment, polymer degradation, electrosurgical devices.


    It may be noted too that both anodic and cathodic CGDE could give rise to considerably large yields of H2, the former particularly from the liquid phase reaction zone and the latter from the plasma phase zone. The H2 generation by CGDE could be further increased through the use of potential H· scavengers, one H2 molecule being formed from one H· radical by interaction with its scavenger. Among the potential H· scavengers are acetone, methanol, ethanol, iso-propanol, n-propanol, n-butanol, etc. [2931].


    CGDE = contact glow discharge electrolysis

  • Alan Smith

    Could be useful, but in my case—or at least until I get a good power supply—I found that very thin wires are more convenient to use for the active electrode in plasma electroylsis. They don't seem to be selling those as well (EDIT: it actually appears that not all wire have a thickness selection). The graphite electrodes on the other hand could be more useful for the Santilli-type arc discharge process in water presented in this thread by Curbina.


    I think I have seen several of the items in the above website also listed on my local Amazon store; the 6x300 mm graphite electrodes (which I broke in half) that I got a while ago (now mostly used up) could have come from them.

  • In this book from Santilli, starting from page 89 there’s a report of an empirical measurement of the “commercial overunity” measured as around 2,8 (times the electric energy input compared to the heat and energy contained in the gas output) that is quite interesting. I insist he did not consider the light output.


    https://thechurchoflife.net/wp…942d08aee8c477fade4da.pdf


    One section after he proceeds to calculate the Maximum Predictable efficiency from Quantum Chemistry and the value is 0,79, so he empirically demonstrates that Quantum Chemistry was not able to predict the empirical results obtained.


    This happened in 1998, and he claims later he was able to get the overunity factor to 3,5 in bigger reactors.

    This is something I have always liked about Santilli, he always provided empirical proof of his claims.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • after JoiScientic fiasco I am extremely skeptical every time a claim of over unity is made comparing energy in different form. It is either due to the lack of experience of attempted scam.
    I remind that Joi even inserted overunity claim in earlier patents claiming that energy in the form of hydrogen produced by the reactor far exceeds electricity consumed by the reactor. It took few years to discover they were wrong.

  • after JoiScientic fiasco I am extremely skeptical every time a claim of over unity is made comparing energy in different form. It is either due to the lack of experience of attempted scam.
    I remind that Joi even inserted overunity claim in earlier patents claiming that energy in the form of hydrogen produced by the reactor far exceeds electricity consumed by the reactor. It took few years to discover they were wrong.


    I know that, but Santilli got the tests done by independent labs, and has since done it many times.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Max Nozin , as you demand proof, and independence, this blog article is from people that made their truly independent replication (Benchtop underwater plasma arc reactor, built using a transparent filter case) and found the production of this kind of gas to have a COP of 1,75 , with regards to the electric energy used To create the gas and the heat energy that could be obtained by burning such gas. Santilli claims 2.8 and up to 7.5 depending on the liquid being submitted to the process and the pressure at which the chamber operates. But these guys from blaze labs obtaining 1.75 with a very simple set up, is not bad. Also they did not consider in this calculation the heat evolved by the process itself (dissipated in the water) nor the light output. Considering those two outputs would increase their COP to some extent.


    http://www.blazelabs.com/n-aquagen.asp

    It is not “something from nothing” is simply getting the extra energy from the matter itself.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.