Paradigmnoia No, this would be always similar to a log curve.
If there is non linearity it mean there is more than one heat source.
Or that there is a non-constant heat transfer function.
Paradigmnoia
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- Member since Oct 23rd 2015
Posts by Paradigmnoia
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Another power off temp curve.
This cooling curve is typical of cooling of an insulated material.
A vacuum can be considered to be insulation. -
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If you mean ... the actual size..
the calorimeter could be made smaller.. are there any dimensions?
assuming the reactor is 0.6m long.. I get volume= ~0,5 m3... SA = ~4 m2
this compares to Mizuno's 0.2 m3 and 2 m2
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In a usual test, the input power of the blower is 5 W, so the wind speed is 4 m/s.
Since the air outlet sectional area is 4.4 × 10−3 m2, air volume of about 1.6×10-2m3/s passes through the interior of the box.
Since the volume of the box is 0.21 m3, if the air volume by the blower is 0.03 m3, the air in the box is replaced every ~13 seconds.
The cylindrical devices of Mizuno’s (50 cm long) are clearly longer than the cruciform reactors, so the Saito calorimeter box appears to have the same external dimensions as Mizuno’s calorimeter box. I estimate the cruciform reactor to be about 40 cm long, consistent with the description in the 2018 ICCF power point presentation (page 5).
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Here is a hi-res photo of Saito's calorimeter.
Clear enough to see the acrylic layer on the outside.
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You can see one of the RTD probes entering the outlet tube on slide 3.
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72 W and 50 W calibrations done. 50 W was fairly stable, much better than expected.
Seems comparable to the figure 7 plot calibration, discussed above. One It cools down I’ll check the real data.Edit: For some unknown reason the input power turned off for an hour, right at the beginning of steady state for the 72 W run, and then started right back up again. So the 72 W delta T results are questionable, but at least 4.5 C. The 50 W run worked out fine, and has a solid 3.95 C delta T.
Probably the heater cartridge connections are getting oxidized and will need inspection.
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The calibration Delta T temperature is shown in other graphs. This particular graph was intended to show the temperature contrasts.
This is Slide 9, here:
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasedea.pdf
It is similar to the Slide 7, except that Slide 7 has actual calibration data for 50 W. I do not have any calibration for 216 W input. I probably have 200, 250, 300 and so on, but not 216 on the nose. So I have to extrapolate.
If that delta T (blue, excess) on slide 7 was from my calorimeter, (which is not exactly the same and possibly slightly more efficient), it would represent about 210 W input. For the 50 W calibration trace, the delta T seems low but extrapolates OK from fan heat data. I can’t run as low as 50 W stably with the present heater arrangement, but serendipitously I can hold 30V which is 72 W.
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That is no surprise. I remember long discussion with a plant fitter in years gone by about speed variations of the industrial version of a turbo vacuum pump, he couldn't understand why it would speed up when there was a good vacuum and drop when there wasn't - he was sure there was something wrong with it. I tried explaining that if the turbo-fans aren't moving much air then they are doing little work, when they are pumping air there's more load. He could never see it.
I also sort of found this out already when doing the voltage steps with the fan outlet unhindered a few months ago. At some higher voltage, the fan current plateau-ed as it seemed to reach the peak efficiency RPM of the fan.
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I reset the fan and series 3 ohm resistor total voltage to 10.45, which puts the blower fan at 9.05 V, and exactly 1.40 V for the resistor drop.
The taped on (still) vane anemometer reports 6.30 m/s compared to 7.06 previously. That probably will be still 2 m/s high compared to the hot wire results if I took the vane off again. The hot wire anemometer can’t test the outlet properly with the vane blocking up the opening, which is now three wedges. I can stick another 65 mm ID tube onto the vane to fix that up. I also don’t think I should spin that vane for countless hours (unless it has magnetic bearings), but if I burn out the bearings working out why it seems to read high maybe that is covered by warranty...
Also I variably blocked the air outlet to check the fan current draw under adverse conditions and it actually drops. Almost half the normal current consumption when the air outlet is blocked completely. Voltage remains the same. -
Yup.
As noted, the spreadsheet has many more columns. This is just a sample made to fit the slide. The columns on the left show data as recorded, without any adjustment.
Can you confirm if the Saito blower voltage is the voltage directly to the blower, or if there is a sense resistor in series included in the 10.57 V (and whatever resistance that resistor is, if any)? The 10.57 V and 0.48 A is consistent with a 3 ohm sense resistor in series, at least as far as my San Ace B97 blower measurements go. Mizuno had 10.42 V to the blower including the 3 ohm sense resistor, so the final blower voltage was lower, based on the equations we went through a couple months ago. I don’t think it affects the experiments much, as long as things are consistent, but it means that I should put my fan voltage back to where it was to do a more correct calorimeter replication.
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The calibration Delta T temperature is shown in other graphs. This particular graph was intended to show the temperature contrasts.
This is Slide 9, here:
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasedea.pdf
It is similar to the Slide 7, except that Slide 7 has actual calibration data for 50 W. I do not have any calibration for 216 W input. I probably have 200, 250, 300 and so on, but not 216 on the nose. So I have to extrapolate.
Is that a new version? I see it had the bubble foil installed photo I have been dreaming of.
Anyways, on Slide 13, Calorimetry, I think the “Blower A” column is actually the voltage drop of the 3 ohm sense resistor, so current is actually 1/3 of the values in that column. -
Nothing to it. It is based on the calibration. That level of input should produce a 10 deg C temperature difference. It is 15 deg C instead. In other words, the blue line is actually measured; the green line is extrapolated from the input power measurement.
If I might be so bold, why not show a calibration Delta T instead of a calculated one?
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Here is the last test data plot. 100 W boost makes for a total delta T of 19.45 C, which is 6.7 C higher than the 200 W delta T.
The 6.7 C Delta T of the 210 to 310 W Delta T's is pretty close to my pre-test estimate, above, which was 7 C.
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Paradig,
1) This shows R-19 which is the name of a Mizuno reactor. But I thought you had built your own, or did Mizuno give you R-19?
2) Did you calibrate with the same reactor as the above experimental run? Or do you (like Mizuno) have a different reactor?
3) What is different in the test reactor run compared to the calibration run? Same reactor body with an inert gas or vacuum on the inside? Same reactor body with active gas but no mesh or a non-Palladium rubbed mesh? Or different reactor body of similar external characteristics?
4) Is the reactor's H2 or D2 supply valved off from the supply system?
Assuming the control is adequate, I think this is excellent results.
P.S.
Is Paradig a good abbreviation of your Pseudo-name -- it's easier to spell for me. I hope you don't mind.
1) The R19 image was from Jed a few months ago. See the second sentence in my post. I have no active reactors. I have almost no idea how “heat converted into temperature” was performed on this plot, but presumably by a method equivalent to the Farnam interactive calculator I posted above, but solving for temperature.
2) I have a stainless steel cylinder made of stove pipe and caps that is 20 cm in diameter and 50 cm long. Inside is a ceramic and Kanthal heater cartridge that I built originally several years ago, then refit recently to install into the cylinder. The cartridge has been tested to be capable of handling 1068 W in open air. There are some cut slabs of fire bricks inside the cylinder as spacers and to increase the mass to close to that of a thick steel cylinder (and prevent it from wanting to roll off the stand).
3) I have no active reactors, the cylinder is at atmospheric pressure, and contains normal Earth atmosphere, although the high heat inside may reduce the internal gas content a bit.4) This is Mizuno’s reactor data in the image. I have no idea.
5) call me what you want, but just don’t call me late for supper.
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For the same range of rows:
Blower V: 10.57, standard deviation 0.02
Blower A: 0.48, standard deviation 0.00 (0.0042)
The column is blank. I guess it was used in other spreadsheets.
Thanks
I had hoped that reactor column had a bad formula or something because it plotted something instead of a blank. Oh well. -
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Reaction? here or over there? Not specifically postulated by Takahashi's team..
Takahashi et al are still investigating "Turbulence"
Considered suggestions will be welcomed I am sure..
The hydrogen condensation a la Mills/Holmlid has been mooted on this thread..
~500 eV per condensation
maybe there is a catalyst somewhere... zirconia?
Hmm. I would have thought that measurement of turbulence in H gas would need ms temperature resolution rather than hours
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Just to get this straight, are the TC4 oscillations postulated to be caused by a reaction elsewhere, or are they postulated to be evidence of the reaction occurring right there causing heat elsewhere?
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You mean the temperature difference between the outlet and inlet air. That is what is shown in the 500 W calibration:
I wrote "Arbitrary units" in the left Y-axis, but those are actually degrees, volts and so on. The outlet temperature is show in the brown line, inlet on the next lower blue line. They are pretty stable from 100,000 s to the end (116,790). The values taken from the spreadsheet are:
Inlet temperature average: 20.33, standard deviation 0.08
Outlet temperature average: 40.71, standard deviation 0.09
20.38 difference
I do not have spreadsheets for the other graphs.
Yeah, I meant the delta T for each one.
If you have the spreadsheet for the 500 W, what are the average V and I values for the blower fan?
Also, why is the reactor temperature zero?
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Check out this delta T to CFM online simulator. All in imperial measurements but seems to work.
You have to scroll down a bunch to the image with the heater element in the middle and dials around it, which have adjustable settings. The heading is Power Flow Rate Visualized.
https://farnam-custom.com/resources/calculatorsEdit: Somehow a quote from a Jed ended up in the middle of the post, now removed.
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Is it possible to get the steady state delta T associated with each of the calibration and excess periods reported from the Saito work?
