Posts by DnG

Quote from THHuxleynew

Be more precise. you believe I am this corrupt person. That is your right. It is very misguided, and makes me quite cross to be accused of dishonesty. Except that in your case you have given no reason for this assertion except that I do not agree with your views, and it is more laughable than annoying.

If i understand correctly your views are anti-vax (?) - and anti-expert. as for keeping what is available away from peopel - if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral. I reckon doctors should be free to give what they want. They bear the risk of wrong prescribing, not you or I. And no-one can be certain what is right, it is balance of probabilities. There is a long history in medicine of doctors jumping on treatments that do more harm than good and sticking with them. i think this is what makes those who want to stop individual doctors doing what seems right act as they do.

I profoundly disagree with you on both the non-HCQ points. Vaccines are not perfect, but they are the only way out of COVID (unless we find some miracle drug - not likely). Experts are wrong sometimes. Non-experts are wrong most of the time. Which would you choose?

And Youtube videos on conspiracy sites are wrong 99% of the time.

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you got all that and stayed on script, No THH I'm just making a document why.

Quote from THHuxleynew

DnG

Do you know why I can be quite sure that your view of the world is rubbish?

It seems that the only way you to sustain it is to reckon I am a paid emissary of those dark forces you fear.

Well, here I have an advantage over you. You can speculate - based on your wrong assumptions, why I post here. I know it. And anyone else of good sense who has observed me over time also knows this. I may be right, or wrong, but my motivation here is to argue what I believe true. And in the process educate myself. i am not paid, nor do I gain any career benefit, from posting here. My one principle is that I try to tell things as they are.

You think this bizaare and false idea so easily of me because I guess your views only cohere if 95% of the world's experts are similarly (in your view) dishonest. Either working for some corrupt ends, or so afraid of "their masters" that they must toe the line. That is why i call this view both arrogant (you are one of the few brave people who know the truth) and dismal (almost everyone has no integrity).

It is extraordinary to me that anyone would think, in Western democracies, that such uniformity of views could exist. We tolerate all views. Even ones obviously crackpot like yours. And it is right we do this, right that you should post here or elsewhere and argue your case. There will be those here who agree with you, and disagree with me.

Happy posting, THH

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The few post I have made in the virus thread are

1 its going to spread all over the place with no way to stop it

2 anything that can infringe on the immune system are being used to kill not help.

3 the math they are giving up is junk

4 keeping what is available to help away for people is a Crime

5 truth is ... you spin topics for a living at a time of need by meany.

Quote from THHuxleynew

If you were honest about the equation here; certainty of higher COVID deaths vs certainty of harm to the economy, I'd be sympathectic.

But you are not, your argument only works if the (obviously) disastrous COVID is in fact harmless, contrary to advice of experts and experience all over the world where countries that ignore it end up in trouble. Note the long list of countries that appeared Ok, until their initially very small rates had increased exponentially to something horrible in cities.

Jed's point here (which I'll make for him) is that if you let COVID infection rates increase you get worse harm to the economy than if you take strong early action, because the infection rates get so high no-one can tolerate them. Even if governments tell people to ignore the risks, in a free country when faced with tv pics of over-run hospitals and stories of horrible deaths most people will be cautious. The later measures then have to be worse, and last longer.

There remains some question about what (lowish) rate of infection is tolerable. The costs of test and trace go up as infection rate goes up, so it is difficult to see a higher but stable infection rate as cost effective. For the same level of social restrictions - needed to get R = 1 - you have more deaths, more fear, more costs doing test and trace.

So it is just not the case that lower population-level restrictions is better for the economy. What, DnG, is the real world scenario that corresponds to your "islanders eat the COVID fish and survive" scenario? I can't see how it works for more than a month or so, after which the higher COVID rates become impossible to ignore even for those previously willing to trade more COVID deaths for less harm of other sorts (and, yes, less other deaths) due to damage to economy.

Think of it as being like managing a gambling habit. It is tough to stop, but if you stop sooner you are better off.

THH

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you cant stop the twisting of any point of view like this is what you do for a living.. but at the same time I'm using your twists and turns that force my hand.

Hope its not the hand of God, Keep talking..

And at the same time an island of people being told not to eat the fish "churchexperts" from the sea as winter ran them out of crops and they all died.

It is the same with the Corana virus.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Jed has very definite views about COVID in which he passionately believes certain things are true. Mainly, he sees the evils of pandemic deaths as very high, and reckons the only rational solution is very strong government action: as has worked in a number of countries. Notice, he does not say that extreme tight lockdown is the solution: rather he sees that as a failure caused by governments without the capacity to do other things that work better and do not stop people going about their normal levels.

You are saying here, I think, that because he holds those views strongly, he is not thinking for himself and is part of the media-organised polarisation in the USA. (I don't think you are really believing he is deliberately engaging in a PR he does not believe for others).

I have always found Jed to be rational, but more certain of his facts than I would be - it sometimes makes him seem irrational. So over this pandemic I am less certain morally what is right - the evils of restrictions that crash the economy are very real and deaths from horrible disease are something we live with, with many diseases, it is a fine balance, and will make moral questions for many years to come, what is right. I agree with him that governments that are able to organise strong "big brother like" track and trace, with effective plentiful testing, will do much much better. We have obvious examples of this. Look, for a clear case, at New Zealand. Very strong early action - enormous priority given to track and trace, and everyone doing what was needed when they were locked down. Cost, both human and to economy, less than almost anywhere else. They are lucky in having very precise control over immigration, being an island.

I don't see this is a partisan point, unless you trade off distrust of government against older people dying horribly and unnecessarily from this disease, because your politics is so far to distrust government that higher deaths are preferable to temporary measures. It is pretty clear that after we have effective vaccines (very likely early next year) few people will die. It is also pretty clear that the overall death rate will vary enormously according to how effectively governments have responded, and how lucky they have been - Stefan's point that some countries were seeded more than others before lockdown is true.

I can agree with you only if you reckon those who are highly polarised (that is in the US Trump, + his supporters, and most of the new democrats, but not old-style democrats nor old-style republicans) are caught in a media-sanitised partial view of issues which demonises opponents.

Saying that Jed's views are not his own but manufactured by the media you are dehumanising somone with (I guess) different views from you. So can you expand further on this? Are you saying that you are equally certain (sharing this with about 1/3 of the US) that Jed's views along with those of another 1/3 of the US should be dismissed as rubbish? Or are you saying that Jed is part of the political disastrous polarisation that has been sharpened even further by Trump and the new Republicans and that you don't like? If first option, then it is you who are going along with media-inspired polarisation and dehumanisation of opponents.

I'd hope you are against this polarisation - in which case the only way out is to respect your opponents and argue the issues. If somone has biased views and is not seeing this clearly that in the end will come out just as long as those with more complete views so not engage in tribal behaviour. And whatever politics Trump himself should be anathema to anyone looking for better political discourse in the US because he, along with many of the democrats and (now) many of the republicans who support him, demonise political opponents. It is not demonising Trump to say that his strategy (or maybe just his personality) is to simplify complex issues and divide people into friends and foes, then to treat foes with an extreme lack of respect.

THH

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Like most topics of science continue to be elusive and how scientists describe ghost particles that come up from the core of the earth, they will bond with different elements, to keep earths core hot ..they are the mechanism of cold fusion. and yet the Fake deceiving write up's are the same as whats going on though out the world today. Stop and look around, you lost this war of words.

I did not believe you all are the cause but a victim until I see the none stop reckless driving of the people reporting only the collision course to this virus.

just like delaying the "mail in voting' to replace trump by simply not counting the votes to restore there power and everything go's back to the way they planed.

I think not.

you still have time to change.

Quote from JedRothwell

So, you are saying that public health officials in Japan, Korea and China are "spinning a story." We can't believe them. You should explain why they have the pandemic under control. You cannot control it without good data, and you have to make the data public, so people know what to do. Do you imagine they do not really have the pandemic under control, and the entire population of all three countries is going alone with their deception? Do you think people in Japan and Korea don't realize that thousands of their friends and family are sick and dying?

China is a totalitarian dictatorship and the government can suppress the facts. They did so at first, but as far as anyone can tell they are now telling the truth. Japan and Korea are open, democratic societies. The government cannot cover up the facts. Not much anyway. The state government here in Georgia does a better job of stonewalling the media and lying about the facts than the Japanese government, but even so, everyone here can see they are incompetent fools and liars. You cannot fool the public for long about a deadly pandemic.

So, you are saying you miss your new york office...?

Sorry to hear that.

Quote from JedRothwell

If the people you refer to do not realize that data from Japan, Korea and China is reliable, they are not skeptics. They are ignorant. They might even be biased against Asian countries. Anyway, I welcome them to drop out.

When my children believe people that spin a story that will endanger them an not listening to my advice, what comes next is on you all.

Quote from JedRothwell

That is incorrect. The data from Japan, Korea and China is reliable.

With statements like this Jed even the skeptics are going to stop reading your post if they drop in..

but I understand you all have a job to do.

The X22 Report / Justinformed / truth and art TV are a few of the "not at the fingertip" news if your looking..

they are not paid to tell you what to think.

Seems your loyalty Sam12 is similar to other that hold truth with no more then words.

I hope he come through for you but if not I can understand if you never believe anyone ever again.

or at least the very high benchmark of what it will take.

~

Fish.

~

just like what your doing now~

I'm not much into the hype ufo/alien devil's mountain but it was interesting who slapped all the stickers on them.. All that work for what ? and now they are doing it again to everything Cov. virus... Hydo.. its the same crew. why?

Daily Mail and General Trust

Wow.. 1.91 billion..

Sharing a story from a qualified medical doctor who says one great treatment early for Covid is already here. Of course since the President mentioned it, others are OK with folks dying just so he is not right. Read it for yourself and see what you think. Thanks to a classmate for forwarding

Like my last court case I brought the guy that write the book and lost to the guy that interpreted the book. thin ice...

Twist and turns of the msm.. jed... every trap start with.. For your safety or for the good of... TRAP.

and now your telling us what Trump meant when he talks.. Trap.

Enough.

I saw this interview live Jed it was the reporter that jumped up and spewed this bullshit "are you telling people to drink"... out of context to Trumps comments.

Curious Sam 12, has he ever mentioned ununpentium 115 or 116 ?

Curious.. modeled after a ice sled sail? ridiculously fast...?