Rossi: The E-Cat X Does Produce Electricity Directly

Quote from Eric Walker

Why the downvote of my legitimate question?

Because Tyy, your downvoter, is nothing but a heckler and a clown.

oystla - do you mean the Japanese paper. I've got that. I'm wondering why you think it shows any nuclear excess. It has apparent endothermic and exothermic measurements of 50ev/H or D. Now, as the paper points out, these are an anomaly and beyond what is expected chemically. Also, they are not feasible as an LENR anonaly which would perhaps explain the exothermic excess and not the endothermic.

We therefore have a clear indication that the calorimetry here, or its interpretation, has issues. Therefore the "continuous excess heat" claims are likley to suffer the same issues and superficially look unsafe.

I'd critique this, but the paper you have shown me does not explain the calorimetry or how the claimed anomaly is calculated. All these details matter. Given a further explanation it might be possible to say more, but you will see this paper does not comply with my requirements. In fact it states itself that it contains an anomaly that cannot be explained by LENR (the endothermic bursts).

I do think its interesting. If not some calorimetry artifact (most likely) it indicates some unusual chemical behaviour in these systems that might be confusing other researchers.

Rossi is the tip of the spear, the edge of the blade. I don't know why some are quite so scathing in what they write about Rossi, he is such a pure spirit. As far as I can tell he has advanced the field further than anyone else; more than could have been expected. When so many others have succumbed, Rossi is resolute. Most in LENR have given up; it is the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone would expect you to fall apart, now that is true strength. When others have given up the fight, Rossi remains sequestered like a monk seeking heaven through the purification of pain and work in his shipping containers. A warrior does not give up what he loves, he finds strength in that love and what he does. Rossi has his faults but they are more than forgiven by what power and credibility that he will anoint like Holy Unction upon LENR's brow. Rossi will take science by the scruff of its neck and shake some sense into it.

If the reactor has a fuel, then Rossi must know how the energy is being produced in the reactor from that fuel. But then he cannot explain how the NI62 formed in the 100 micron ash particle that was produced in the Lugano test. Rossi's theory with Cook does not explain pure Ni62 formation.

Will Rossi explain how heat and electricity is produced in his patent or will just assert that fuel is required without knowing how the fuel produces that energy that his reactor generates? Will the patent office allow such a patent that cannot explain how energy is produced?

Even if Rossi does not understand how his reactor works, will people accept it without that operating description? Rossi might need to make something up to make the patent office and the people sanguine. How can Rossi prove that the E-Cat is not an perpetual motion machine?

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Even if Rossi does not understand how his reactor works, will people accept it without that operating description? Rossi might need to make something up to make the patent office and the people sanguine.

Rossi has already made something up to make the patent office sanguine. Specifically, he has submitted the Lugano tests - with details of the calorimetry - for the WIPO patent. That calorimetry as described in the patent is known wrong, and when corrected there is no evidence from calorimetry of nuclear reactions.

So, if that part of the description were to be important for the patent it would not stop it from going though (patent examiners cannot perform scientific review, and accept what they are given) but would make it invalid on challenge.

Of course for Rossi patents so far matter for PR, not for protection of IP, since Rossi has no patentable IP - not one inventive step described in a patent that could be replicated by someone skilled in the art.

Thomas,

Regarding your comments to the Japanese paper:

"I'm wondering why you think it shows any nuclear excess."
Answer:
They proved an excess heat accumulated energy of 800 electron volts pr Ni atom or 600 eV pr hydrogen atom. In comparison for chemical energy: There are only 4-5 electron volts pr combustion of a hydrogen or Carbon atom.200 times higher energy in LENR than chemical energy.

"It has apparent endothermic and exothermic measurements of 50ev/H or D. "

Answer:
Wrong. They measured 50-80 eV/H or D endothermic and 600-800 eV/H orD exothermic.

"......these are an anomaly and beyond what is expected chemically. Also, they are not feasible as an LENR anonaly which would perhaps explain the exothermic excess and not the endothermic."

Answer:
Wrong. The paper even have a proposed hypothesis for the endothermic event.

From paper "One event that might be considered would be a single or plural Ni-atoms kick-out (displacement) induced by the abrupt H(D)-desorption, for we know from the radiation damage study of hot-fusion materials that metal atom displacement energy from lattice is on the order of 40 eV "

Regarding your "We therefore have a clear indication that the calorimetry here, or its interpretation, has issues. Therefore the "continuous excess heat" claims are likley to suffer the same issues and superficially look unsafe."

Answer:
As I said before one single paper does not necesarily explain everything about an experiment. The Japanese have a separate paper om calorimetry.

So If you where less lazy and searched for more of the Japanese research you would find the following statement in another paper on.... Calorimetry
"To confirm these interesting phenomena, repeated measurements with improved signal-to-noise ratio are required. Since the easiest way to accomplish this is to increase the amount of sample material being tested, we have fabricated a reaction chamber with ten-times-larger volume than the present one. Another important improvement is mass flow calorimetry applied to the system using an oil coolant with a boiling point of 390◦C. "

Would you like to have the paper ?

And wrt your
" ....indicates some unusual chemical behaviour in these systems that might be confusing other researchers."

800 eV/atom of excess heat would mean a new energy source, call it chemical or LENR or whatever. Worthy of more research

Quote from axil

If the reactor has a fuel, then Rossi must know how the energy is being produced in the reactor from that fuel. But then he cannot explain how the NI62 formed in the 100 micron ash particle that was produced in the Lugano test. Rossi's theory with Cook does not explain pure Ni62 formation.

Will Rossi explain how heat and electricity is produced in his patent or will just assert that fuel is required without knowing how the fuel produces that energy that his reactor generates? Will the patent office allow such a patent that cannot explain how energy is produced?

Even if Rossi does not understand how his reactor works, will people accept it without that operating description? Rossi might need to make something up to make the patent office and the people sanguine. How can Rossi prove that the E-Cat is not an perpetual motion machine?

Rossi said:

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The E-Cat X is well protected by my patent US 9,115,913 B1.The system to produce electric energy is a separated patent in preparation:

So my interpretation in relation to your post is the following: the system that produces energy (e-cat X) is already patented (although Rossi did have to avoid mentioning anything about LENR).

What he is trying to patent now is some add-on that allows the invention in his current patent to deliver electricity rather than heat. This is different than if he had to patent the whole thing.

IMO Rossi has already done the hard work by getting that first patent approved.

You are right I was somewhat lazy - I got the correct impression that they were putting these forward as provisional results subject to further validation - which is true.

I also thought the calorimetry was dubious, but did not dot is and cross ts. I've done this now, and will post a thread on this paper because it is a classic example of how LENR fans who don't examine the details are taken in by truthful but essentially null LENR papers such as this one.

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Thomas,Regarding your comments to the Japanese paper:"I'm wondering why you think it shows any nuclear excess."Answer:They proved an excess heat accumulated energy of 800 electron volts pr Ni atom or 600 eV pr hydrogen atom. In comparison for chemical energy: There are only 4-5 electron volts pr combustion of a hydrogen or Carbon atom.200 times higher energy in LENR than chemical energy."It has apparent endothermic and exothermic measurements of 50ev/H or D. "Answer:Wrong. They measured 50-80 eV/H or D endothermic and 600-800 eV/H orD exothermic."......these are an anomaly and beyond what is expected chemically. Also, they are not feasible as an LENR anonaly which would perhaps explain the exothermic excess and not the endothermic."Answer:Wrong. The paper even have a proposed hypothesis for the endothermic event.From paper "One event that might be considered would be a single or plural Ni-atoms kick-out (displacement) induced by the abrupt H(D)-desorption, for we know from the radiation damage study of hot-fusion materials that metal atom displacement energy from lattice is on the order of 40 eV "Regarding your "We therefore have a clear indication that the calorimetry here, or its interpretation, has issues. Therefore the "continuous excess heat" claims are likley to suffer the same issues and superficially look unsafe."Answer:As I said before one single paper does not necesarily explain everything about an experiment. The Japanese have a separate paper om calorimetry.So If you where less lazy and searched for more of the Japanese research you would find the following statement in another paper on.... Calorimetry "To confirm these interesting phenomena, repeated measurements with improved signal-to-noise ratio are required. Since the easiest way to accomplish this is to increase the amount of sample material being tested, we have fabricated a reaction chamber with ten-times-larger volume than the present one. Another important improvement is mass flow calorimetry applied to the system using an oil coolant with a boiling point of 390◦C. "Would you like to have the paper ?And wrt your " ....indicates some unusual chemical behaviour in these systems that might be confusing other researchers."800 eV/atom of excess heat would mean a new energy source, call it chemical or LENR or whatever. Worthy of more research