The Playground

Argon,

The avatar is there to remind me that I personally promised Rossi to wear a donkey cap and publicly apologize as soon as I am convinced by evidence that his claims are true.

Since for long time we have had nothing concrete to catch on, we have time to speculate on scenarios, but as this is purely speculation, lets stay in playground thread.

What indirect indications we have on what is going on.

- Mysterious need, more or less in 'both camps', to flood good discussion threads with unrelated stuff - indication of something or pure frustration?
- Nonsense MTD rounds, second round brought nothing new - some time wise goal behind or just greedy lawyers hunting more billable hours?
- IH:s response full of secondary arguments like 'missing signature', 'six cylider unit', 'missing the schedule' - proof of exceptionable business ethics or standard lawyer(/business?) procedure not related to code of conduct nor original/real intentions of IH.
- Important hearings coming in autumn. If you want to ruin LENR reputation in those decision makers eyes for few more years, optimal timing would be time Rossi vs Darden verdict little before those important hearings and then bring in big guns, PR campaign, articles, statements from hot fusionists, all kind of mess. I just hope that nobody has hazy photo of guy looking like Rossi in wrong kind of 'action'.
- Most probable scenarios are the ones presented so many times, things simply went southwest after good start with Rossi becoming suspicious or 1MW container is simply expensive COP1 electric heater? What if it was not what has happened? IH wanting to control and delay technology? Even bigger scenario DoD, NAVY, NASA, BigOil younameit is acting behind as they want to get headstart and having so much to loose in their current 'business'. Then even IH woud be just tiny paper company put up for this goal only? What else it could be? COP1 is simplest and mistrust is second, but are all others totally out of question? Why seemingly Rossi is not willing to solve this quickly outside court, whereas IH could be in theory. Why it is that way around if it is true?

I'm not taking the sides, but please pick your bullet and feel free to speculate, maybe we come up with something new this round.

Quote from Keieueue

or the October Surprise that Walker evokes.

Thanks Keieueue. Could you elaborate bit more or provide a link what Walker has said about that? I must have missed it.

Ok you meant t hat one. Now I remember seeing it also. Based on todays documents this Sebtember guess was not so far off

Quote from Keieueue

Well, it seems that the Weaveraunauts have left Planet Dewey. One heat round and they scatter like startled chicken! Can you hear their fading cackles? "... bad calorimetry... Petroldragon scam... don't go for high COP... garage tinkerer..."
The real show is starting now, Rossi has got roaring tigers under the hood of his six-cylinder muscle machine! Soon it will be felt as if the inhabitants of Planet Dewey collectively cried and then were instantly silenced.

Hey Doobie, or APCO troll, or handler of automatic posting software, MAD PROPS to you my man, keeping up a sad gig like this for weeks on, this has to take a toll on one's soul.

A thought for Lomax as well, astroturfing is no way to enjoy the twilight of life

Dewey swept into our midst like an ill wind, a hurricane of dissension and conflict. It's was an ill wind that blows nobody any good. Many here were infected by his malevolent spell and followed his will zombi like at the cost of friendships and reputations. Dewey's brief passage through our number will take a long time in passing.

Quote from axil

Many here were infected by his malevolent spell and followed his will zombi like at the cost of friendships and reputations.

That is how I would describe Rossi.

As for Dewey, everything he said was true. I have independent proof of it. Rossi's test really was a fraud and a travesty. I have proof of that in Rossi's own words. You do not believe this, but you should be careful not to disbelieve it too much. Since you have no technical data from the test, you can have no idea why I have reached this conclusion. It is not possible to evaluate a technical claim without technical information. As I said to you in Peter's blog, where you claimed I am harsh for this standard:

Quote

. . . if you know something [about this test], tell me what type of flowmeter Rossi uses, and how he determines steam quality. These are important details. If you do not know them, you know nothing about the test.

So do you know? Does Peter? If he doesn't then what I said is not harsh, it is a fact.

You may be the smartest person in the world but if you do not know what sort of flowmeter Rossi is using then you have no idea why I.H. disputes his result.

Do not paint yourself in a corner. Sooner or later the facts will come to light, the ERV will be published and you will see that everything you believed about Rossi was false. It was all a lie. I think it would be better for your reputation for you to leave open the possibility that you are wrong.

Quote from JedRothwell

That is how I would describe Rossi.

As for Dewey, everything he said was true. I have independent proof of it. Rossi's test really was a fraud and a travesty. I have proof of that in Rossi's own words. You do not believe this, but you should be careful not to disbelieve it too much. Since you have no technical data from the test, you can have no idea why I have reached this conclusion. It is not possible to evaluate a technical claim without technical information. As I said to you in Peter's blog, where you claimed I am harsh for this standard:

You may be the smartest person in the world but if you do not know what sort of flowmeter Rossi is using then you have no idea why I.H. disputes his result.

Do not paint yourself in a corner. Sooner or later the facts will come to light, the ERV will be published and you will see that everything you believed about Rossi was false. It was all a lie. I think it would be better for your reputation for you to leave open the possibility that you are wrong.

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Because the trial is so far off into the future, and the judgement will be make by ordinary people, the terms of judgement will be based on the validity of the LENR reaction itself. If Rossi can prove that LENR works before the jury retires, he will win, if not he may well lose. It all depends on Rossi's credibility and his ability to get a product out on the street.

IH knows this and they will do their best to keep Rossi from succeeding in the marketplace. If Rossi wants to keep IH out of his business and protest his IP, Rossi better produce and soon.

Quote from axil

Because the trial is so far off into the future, and the judgement will be make by ordinary people, the terms of judgement will be based on the validity of the LENR reaction itself. If Rossi can prove that LENR works before the jury retires, he will win, if not he may well lose. It all depends on Rossi's credibility and his ability to get a product out on the street.

IH knows this and they will do their best to keep Rossi from succeeding in the marketplace. If Rossi wants to keep IH out of his business and protest his IP, Rossi better produce and soon.

The irony in your perspective is that Rossi himself is the biggest reason his "invention" is not succeeding in the marketplace. With his lawsuit, he has successfully kicked this can down the road for at least a few years. I wonder what it will actually take for those on planet Rossi to finally admit to the crying wolf...like if there is actually any scenario that Rossi supporters will finally say...okay okay Rossi fooled us!

Quote from stephenrenzz

[quote='axil','https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3261-The-Playground/?postID=26975#post26975']

The irony in your perspective is that Rossi himself is the biggest reason his "invention" is not succeeding in the marketplace. With his lawsuit, he has successfully kicked this can down the road for at least a few years. I wonder what it will actually take for those on planet Rossi to finally admit to the crying wolf...like if there is actually any scenario that Rossi supporters will finally say...okay okay Rossi fooled us!

I think back in the history of the fission reactor; Its developments started by in 1942 and it continued into the 1970s before it lost is appeal. And then there is the fusion reactor which started development in the 1950s and continues to this day. The take away, nuclear reactor development takes a long, long, long time.

Quote from axil

I think back in the history of the fission reactor; Its developments started by in 1942 and it continued into the 1970s before it lost is appeal. And then there is the fusion reactor which started development in the 1950s and continues to this day. The take away, nuclear reactor development takes a long, long, long time.

Agreed...and maybe that is the way it should be. We see what happens when one man supposedly holds all the secrets of a technology that would change the world...pocketed investment dollars and a huge lawsuit.

Quote from axil

Because the trial is so far off into the future, and the judgement will be make by ordinary people, the terms of judgement will be based on the validity of the LENR reaction itself.

The validity of this LENR claim rests entirely on Rossi's calorimetry in this test. Not LENR in general, this claim. This calorimetry is an abomination. It is ridiculous. Any expert who sees it will dismiss it.

LENR is definitely real but there are dozens of experiments that purport to show it which were done wrong and which show nothing. This is one of them. It is the worst I have ever seen.

Quote from axil

If Rossi can prove that LENR works before the jury retires, he will win, if not he may well lose. It all depends on Rossi's credibility and his ability to get a product out on the street.

He does not have to prove that LENR works. This is not a debate about LENR. It is about calorimetry. It is about standard HVAC techniques for measuring the heat from large boilers.

Rossi has to prove that this particular reactor works. He could perhaps do that with a proper set of instruments and procedures. However, the instruments and procedures used in this test cannot prove anything. At best they give a rough approximation. The I.H. people did a rough estimate, and so did I. We concluded there is no excess heat. The I.H. experts did additional studies confirming this.

Rossi and Penon claim that the data shows 50 times input, but their analysis is as preposterous as their methods and instruments, in my opinion.

Quote from axil

[quote='JedRothwell','https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3261-The-Playground/?postID=26960#post26960'][quote='axil','https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3261-The-Playground/?postID=26958#post26958']

If Rossi can prove that LENR works before the jury retires, he will win, if not he may well lose. It all depends on Rossi's credibility and his ability to get a product out on the street.

This is not true. Even if Rossi somehow figures out how to create a LENR reaction before trial (which I sincerely doubt), he cannot apply that new discovery to the 1MW plant technology that is core to this situation/lawsuit. He will have to prove THAT technology and THAT technology only. If the QuarkX or QuarkZ ends up showing excess heat, that has nothing to do with the 1MW plant.

Quote from JedRothwell

The validity of this LENR claim rests entirely on Rossi's calorimetry in this test. Not LENR in general, this claim. This calorimetry is an abomination. It is ridiculous. Any expert who sees it will dismiss it.

LENR is definitely real but there are dozens of experiments that purport to show it which were done wrong and which show nothing. This is one of them. It is the worst I have ever seen.

He does not have to prove that LENR works. This is not a debate about LENR. It is about calorimetry. It is about standard HVAC techniques for measuring the heat from large boilers.

Rossi has to prove that this particular reactor works. He could perhaps do that with a proper set of instruments and procedures. However, the instruments and procedures used in this test cannot prove anything. At best they give a rough approximation. The I.H. people did a rough estimate, and so did I. We concluded there is no excess heat. The I.H. experts did additional studies confirming this.

Rossi and Penon claim that the data shows 50 times input, but their analysis is as preposterous as their methods and instruments, in my opinion.

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Dear Jed,

I know that you're a man of fire and steam weaned on your father's knee with tails of the iron clad sailing ships and the iron men who sailed them when the 20th century was young. But steam drove a way of life that has long passed. The testimony about calorimetry will be so boring it will peal the paint off the courtroom walls and nary a soul in that august room will follow such a dry subject. As much as you love the stuff, a good lawyer will avoid talk of bubbling steam like the plague.