The Playground

  • The way people change position about LENR, Rossi... is interesting.


    I started neutral on LENR in 92-93, moving after much reading to an optimistic prudent "it seems real, and at least it deserve study"... "It may even be an artifact, but engineers can exploit artifact... eg for batteries"


    around 2005 I've seen Jean-Louis Naudin experiments (inspire by Mizuno) but was not convinced. I've seen news from Spawar with the famous hotspot images... not interested... Seen Rossi claims... not serious looking...

    then end of 2011 I started to look at Rossi, Defkalion with more interest. I gathered data on LENr, thanks to Jed, Abd, Vortex...

    Rossi was raising all the possible Red flags, and many old supporters of LENR were very cautious with the pathetic experiments of Rossi, sure not convincing, but probably not sure erroneous... incompetence in testing or fraud ? that was the ambiance.

    Defkalion looked more serious, let us say because of their blue suits, and engineering proposal. Optimistic...

    I started to be woried but not yet negative when they leaked the Nelson test which was only preliminary. I learned later the test could have been more deep but theyr refused to pay...

    The Milano show of Defkalion was not so great, a pony show... it could be defended but some details were missing to be an evidence. When Luca Gamberale raised "concerns" I was worried but waiting for Defkalion answers. With answer not coming i started to seriously consider there was a huge problem, but not 100% sure... I started to warn people to wait for answers.

    Then Luca explained me what Defkalion had done, I was not 100% sure (claims agains claims). When he published the report, and DGT did not answer, I trusted his public claim.


    Many time misplaced trust is because you conclude from evidences that are not exactly as you have been told...

    Meanwhile clowneries of Rossi, with NI, with licensees were raising more red flags... Anyway his "plausible deniability" defense, on Petroldragon, on Army's TEG, on his LENR tests could be defended.. I attacked people being sure against him, on their lack of evidences (only Dewey recently seems to be better informed than skeptics, especially on the gold smuggling).

    His partnership with Darden gave him at last credibility that could not come from his own behavior.

    His behaviors with the Swedish and the voltmeter increased my impression of incompetence and stubbornness, but I could not imagine it was just to dump a partner as he explained to darden with pride.

    I was worried by his manners when dumping his former licensee's, especially Prometheon who looked serious.

    The test in ferrara, especially with Bo Hoistad comments looked serious, and Stephan pomp accusations a bit conspiracy and un supported by evidences.

    then the Lugano test came, and I trusted the physicist, then realized there was a clear mistake, but could not connecte those blatant errors, with their blatant silence, and clear support of darden.... I was needing more data.

    Since long the only reason to trust rossi, was darden.

    When Darden was attacked by Rossi I had no reason to trust Rossi.

    Reading some key documents in the pacermonitor send me to terminal phase of disillusion.


    Today, I trust only the scientists, knowing their imperfect humanity, and trusting few.


    I am optimistic on Brillouin as they are not claiming great results, and are supported by Tanzella and McKubre, who have a job at SRI... But after so many misplaced trust, I'm ready for deception.


    I'm worried that so many people still support Rossi (Or Defkalion).

    Optimism and waiting for evidences to conclude is not criminal, but once there is evidences, evidences of excess heat, evidence of fraudulent behavior, one should accept to have been wrong.

  • Just a reminder that if people find someone distracting for whatever reason, there is a "block" feature which will hide the comments of that person. Obviously we each have our own views on what constitutes signal, noise and trolling. But the feature does wonders for increasing the signal in specific cases according to one's taste.


    I'm guessing that there would be fewer personality conflicts if more people used the feature, and that any that persisted would be due mainly to people here for the specific purpose of getting in a brawl.


    (I can't use the feature as much as I would like, unfortunately, as I have to keep up with most of what is being said.)

  • What I wish is that the Signal-noise ratio here would be higher.


    TTM,


    Come on, is it really noise we are making when we trash Rossi? We are not speculating as we were before the IH venture, when there was little to go on. Now, with the revelations in the court documents, we have more than enough information just a click away to make informed decisions.


    So our signal is loud and clear...you guys are defending a con-artist, and you are going to keep hearing that until you finally come to your senses. :)

  • TTM,


    Come on, is it really noise we are making when we trash Rossi? We are not speculating as we were before the IH venture, when there was little to go on. Now, with the revelations in the court documents, we have more than enough information just a click away to make informed decisions.


    So our signal is loud and clear...you guys are defending a con-artist, and you are going to keep hearing that until you finally come to your senses. :)


    Ok. I see. Defending a criminal is the general accusation. I wonder what would be the equivalent for the Rossi deniers that put so much effort into disrupting and delaying a global energy breakthrough? Will they be responsible for these actions? Some kind of Hague Tribunal maybe...

  • Quote

    Optimism and waiting for evidences to conclude is not criminal, but once there is evidences, evidences of excess heat, evidence of fraudulent behavior, one should accept to have been wrong.


    The LENR reaction might not produce much excess heat, but it does produce transmutation of elements. Detection of transmutation is easy to do and reliable. The Lugano test did not produce much excess heat but it sure did produce transmutation of elements and that fact was rigorously tested. Piantelli might not produce much excess heat put he does produce transmutation. Proton 21 does not produce excess heat but they do produce transmuted elements. Defkalion did not need to justify their heat production but they did transmute elements. Maybe your problem with faith in the reality of LENR is in perception and expectation rather than fact.

  • Just a reminder that if people find someone distracting for whatever reason, there is a "block" feature which will hide the comments of that person. Obviously we each have our own views on what constitutes signal, noise and trolling. But the feature does wonders for increasing the signal in specific cases according to one's taste.


    I'm guessing that there would be fewer personality conflicts if more people used the feature, and that any that persisted would be due mainly to people here for the specific purpose of getting in a brawl.


    (I can't use the feature as much as I would like, unfortunately, as I have to keep up with most of what is being said.)

    Eric ,


    Nice feature.


    Can we block you?


    Cheers,


    JB

  • Prove it...


    Some of us do enjoy proving that demos are no proof - it happened for all of Rossi's demos and likely easy on these Golden Balls - nomen omen. No one in their right mind will engage in trying to prove that the Balls don't work, for the epistemological reasons repeated a thousand times.