In a balanced 3-phase condition the effect of reverting a clamp is to underestimate power by a factor 3 whatever the triac conduction angle.
So the mistake could happen when disconnecting for fueling and reconnecting.
You still have not checked the Lugano setup. There was never a full three phase set up, as one phase was reserved for the "superwave" induction current.
Using a common ground (prerequisite) this would have lead to a great mess.....
Superwave, never full 3-phase, whats all this about? Is the report wrong? All three heating coils were visibly the same colour when heated and all 3 phases were instrumented and measured by the power meter.
Great @P! That's exactly what Lugano claims... --> I would back off! .
Otherwise You would have to prove that the wrong measurements were right...
That is, consumes 2880 W of electricity. Not so good for what Lugano claims. But it does contradict my delta-wye hypothesis.
Which is fine. Data overrules theory.
Anyways, it is just part of a hypothesis , which needs more work, but it does predict that the dummy must have consumed approximately 960 W, not 479 W.
In a balanced 3-phase condition the effect of reverting a clamp is to underestimate power by a factor 3 whatever the triac conduction angle.
Thanks. That helps. I thought that the factor was 3, then it was more variable in your other analysis. Now I understand where the difference is.
So with three phase, a factor three error, and with single phase more variable error with reversed clamp. OK.
I'm not sure what to think about the rods now, but I'll plug away at it with your clarification in mind.
QuoteAs I have explained in the introductory lines (1), these quotes are mainly those in which you undoubtedly sustained the credibility of the professors, who, in turn, reported to have undoubtedly measured excess heat. I know, as I admitted, you've often advanced some cautions about Rossi, but not about the professors, and you always knew that the whole credibility in the performance of its devices rests on the scientific authority of these lasts (2): "The fact that Levi and other established professors took part in the experiment is about 4 orders of magnitude more significant than what Rossi may have done, or the unexplained fires, or his criminal record (if he has one)."
And don't forget that Jed has maintained that Rossi had to be right about some of the anomalous measurements "on first principles" and because some huge chunk of metal still caused water to boil when power was removed. Never mind heat storage in the large device (the "Ottoman" ecat). Nevermind the misplaced (OBVIOUSLY misplaced) thermocouples measuring the output power. Nevermind the total lack of proper calibration. Jed consistently poopoo'd any suggestions that Rossi might have used sleight of hand to cheat on input and/or output power measurements or to introduce weird isotopes into his "ash". Nevermind the complete inconsistency between experiments and the fact that Rossi never did the same experiment twice (like any good magician who does not want how he does his tricks discovered). Jed swallowed Rossi hook, line and sinker, even if he won't admit it. And he was pretty sure about Defkalion as well because of what some secret sources were telling him. What are those sources saying now?
@Mary
@Ascoli
you guys can be really nasty. Jed fell for it. so what. We all did, for a time ranging from hours to years, though many of us with big "caution" disclaimers.
Most skeptics writing here are like ex-smokers complaining for the smoke and bashing smokers for their unhealthy habits.
your comment on 3 phase input is pure fantasy. And "superwave" is a laughable term: does Rossi superimpose RF on the AC supply? OK, maybe, so what? You don't mean he feeds kIlowatts of RF outside the wattmeter's frequency range, do you?
And for some guys the "E-Cat" seems to be the Holy Grail and Andrea Rossi is the prophet of the LENR-Religion
They simply believe in almost everything coming from Andrea Rossi and the JONP.
Sometimes starting wild speculations and, hmm, some kind of "Religious war"
No prove at all, some gimmick tests, no serious replication, just same data and "Rossie says", but they BELIEVE!
True believers!
SCNR!
Jed fell for it. so what. We all did, for a time ranging from hours to years, though many of us with big "caution" disclaimers.
Lots of disclaimers on my part, which for some reason Mary Yugo overlooks.
Not too many argued for Rossi more than I did over the years, but even I always made it clear that I, nor anyone else for that matter, could be absolutely certain....for obvious reasons. Along with disclaimers, many others went by percentages in expressing their belief. One week 90% sure of Rossi, another 30%.
I, like most, was all over the place, but never 100%. Closest I came to that was when Rossi/IH started the 1 year test. The longer it went on without IH pulling the plug, the closer to 100% I went. Even now, it baffles me why IH would sign off on starting that test, if things were not looking good at that point -which was well along into their relationship. Or why they allowed it to continue if what we hear about their doubts early on are true?
Only ones that were 100% certain of Rossi being legit gravitated to ECW where they remain today. Those absolutely sure he was a fraud, like MY/JC, took up residence at ECNs (now totally defunct).
Even now, it baffles me why IH would sign off on starting that test, if things were not looking good at that point -which was well along into their relationship.
Do you mean the 1-year test? I believe they were dissatisfied by the time Rossi moved the machine to Florida. But had already paid, so they figured they might as well let him do whatever he wanted. It wasn't going to cost them any more money, so why not? I think they still felt it might work. Heck, I still wonder whether some of the earlier tests did work. I can't tell. Not enough data, and no independent replications.
Only ones that were 100% certain of Rossi being legit gravitated to ECW where they remain today. Those absolutely sure he was a fraud, like MY/JC, took up residence at ECNs (now totally defunct).
Most folks at ECW are fence-sitters--wait and see, although with a lean toward Rossi given IH's shenanigans. That is my current position as well. The pathological skeptics resided at ECN, and no longer have place to rest their head. So some of them came here.
And don't forget that Jed has maintained that Rossi had to be right about some of the anomalous measurements "on first principles" and ...
You forget that in the Ecat saga Rossi plays the role of the inventor/entrepreneur. As entrepreneur he can justify a lot of apparently weird behaviors. As inventor, an edisonian inventor as JR has always defined him, he said that he has found the recipe of his effect by chance and did get the confirmation of the efficacy of all his devices by someone else, many people, mostly professors. You cannot criticize his position, he owes nothing to anybody. Did you ever trust him?
I tell you one more time. You are too much obsessed by Rossi. He is not the key to understand the Ecat affair.
@Peter Ekstrom
QuoteIt's too much work to write a motivation for rejection
Most theories ne durent que l'espace d'un matin.
Did somebody care of this claim by John C. Fisher?
http://www.iscmns.org/asti06/FisherFission.pdf
There are hundreds of such claims which seem to have been swallowed by a black hole.
Do you remember the "three miracles" by G. Preparata?
Cold fusion doesn't need theories; it badly needs experiments.
your comment on 3 phase input is pure fantasy. And "superwave" is a laughable term:
Did You ever follow LENR? On p.6 Fig.5 You can see the frequency decomposition. They posted it just for Your fun...
Jed fell for it. so what.
Andrea, what do you mean with "Jed fell for it"? Do you mean, that he believed in the Ecat results?
You should leave apart for a while the wires of the hotcat and look with more attention to the upstream facts happened in 2011, and may be even before, to understand this saga and the possible role of its protagonists. And if you do that, you will see that JR looks much more like a protagonist rather than a simple very special commenter.
Have you understood the historical importance of the demo held in Bologna, on January 14, 2011, at the presence of a dozen of members (or ex-members) of the local Department of Physics? They took publicly the responsibility to measure the possible excess heat produced by a presumed revolutionary device and to properly report it to the public opinion.
Do you think it is normal that all the main calorimetric data of that test has been communicated within hours to someone at the other side of the ocean (1)? Who did establish the wrong data reported by Levi in his calorimetric report? It's really hard to believe that JR was not aware since the beginning that those data were wrong.
QuoteWe all did, for a time ranging from hours to years, ...
You don't need Google Translate to read my first comment on EnergeticAmbiente (2). JR had much more information and occasions to raise the same questions. Why he didn't?
(1) Jed Rothwell on an Unpublished E-Cat Test Report that “Looks Like it Worked”
(2) http://www.energeticambiente.i…fala-9.html#post119167978
You don't need Google Translate to read my first comment on EnergeticAmbiente (2). JR had much more information and occasions to raise the same questions. Why he didn't?
The answer is simple and contains only three letters...
QuoteYou are too much obsessed by Rossi. He is not the key to understand the Ecat affair.
No obsession at all. Martin Fleischmann and Sergio Focardi are dead. Only Rossi is left. Who else? I wish Rossi a long life, but if he disappears so does cold fusion. Rossi's CF is customized, so to say. It is only a patent, it didn't turn into an acknowledged scientific achievement.
Rossi is the only reference left to the believers.
Do you mean the 1-year test? I believe they were dissatisfied by the time Rossi moved the machine to Florida. But had already paid, so they figured they might as well let him do whatever he wanted. It wasn't going to cost them any more money, so why not? I think they still felt it might work. Heck, I still wonder whether some of the earlier tests did work. I can't tell. Not enough data, and no independent replications.
Yes Jed, that is the one I mean't. Your theory of IH's behavior is a reasonable one of many. They were in fact disillusioned with Rossi well before that 1 year test as you say. First indicator of that was when Gary Wright ("ShutRossiDown") reported Rossi to the North Carolina State Radiation Agency for operating an unlicensed nuclear reactor. Regulators paid IH a visit and talked with Vaughn in response. Took a lot of measurements. In their post visit report dated Dec 2014, they quoted Vaughn as saying "Rossi is not credible". The GPT (1 year test) started Feb 2015.
Interestingly, that was not the first time Wright did this. He reported Rossi to the Florida Radiation Agency also, which I believe was before IH bought the 1MW. Interesting guy this GW, but that is for another day. 
Most folks at ECW are fence-sitters--wait and see, although with a lean toward Rossi given IH's shenanigans. That is my current position as well. The pathological skeptics resided at ECN, and no longer have place to rest their head. So some of them came here.
Fanboy,
You are right. Some of those guys started out on ECNs with me. Peter, George...those were the days. Good guys too. George has even become outspoken against Rossi!
Acland has loosened up ever so slightly to allow some mild dissent. Not sure the regulars there have followed suit though. But you are right, not all are 100%ers anymore so I take that back.
Rossi is the only reference left...
Do we live on the same planet. The one called Earth?
