Jed
Rossi's device is nothing more than an electric water heater, so there is no danger from it. It did not produce more energy out than in. It is a badly designed 20-kW electric water heater. So it does not need to be regulated.
Why the change of tack? You now argue against your claim that an this 'boiler' conflicts with the requirements of safety law. How many Jed Rothwell's are there? Perhaps the 'hand over book' got lost.
Best regards
Frank
Why the change of tack? You now argue against your claim that an this 'boiler' conflicts with the requirements of safety law.
I have said all along it would only violate laws if it were larger than 117 kW. Smaller boilers are not regulated.
Jed
So in your opinion, is it a boiler or not. If I had a boiler I would expect to get some heat out of it but there was no heat from the vent in the factory so where did it go. Maybe there was no heat after all and if that is the case no boiler, end of story. Which is it Jed? If Rossi's stuff works then I grant you it could be a boiler but not if it doesn't.
But even if it does work, its not a boiler under the Florida boiler regs because the heat produced was not 'used' and there is no combustion or similar process creating heat only an impossible nuclear reaction so who's going to believe its a boiler anyway. But according to Dewey Weaver, there was no heat so no boiler.
Mind you, some of the data is fake. For example, he erased the pressure data and replaced it with 0.0 bar. The original pressure figures showed there was no heat. These numbers show the reactor was in interstellar space in a perfect vacuum. I suppose
Cannot be a boiler then!!
Best regards
Frank
So in your opinion, is it a boiler or not.
Of course it is a boiler. Anything that heats water is called a boiler in HVAC terminology, even if it only heats the water and does not boil it. Even a home hot water heater is called a boiler. It does not matter whether the boiler is heated by gas, coal, nuclear fission or concentrated solar power (CSP). It is still a boiler. (The part where the heat originates will be a burner, a reactor, or a set of mirrors, respectively.)
In Florida, boilers over 117 kW have to be inspected. Smaller ones are exempt. Rossi's reactor is only 20 kW so it is exempt. If it actually produced anomalous excess heat over 117 kW it might have to be inspected. Rossi claims it does produce over 117 kW. I think he also claimed it has been inspected, but there is no record of an inspection at that address, so he is lying -- as usual.
If it were an actual fusion reactor there are no laws applicable and I am sure the authorities would shut it down immediately. No sane government official will allow someone to run a megawatt nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles.
But according to Dewey Weaver, there was no heat so no boiler.
According to Rossi's data there was 20 kW of electric heating, but no excess heat. It is a small electrically fired boiler. (And yes, they do call them "electrically fired.")
Well, Frank, if that's your background, perhaps you can explain to me why you believe Rossi (if you do) when he has:
- never allowed a correct calibration over the operating range and
- never designed and built a forced cooling system for the hot cat -- no real and highly energetic reactor would be designed this way due to the danger of thermal runaway
Oh, also explain to me how Rossi's "safety heater" works-- you know, the one on the original ecat, the one which is comparatively huge and wraps around the coolant channel only?
Also, while you're at it, how does Rossi regulate the reaction in a) the old ecat, b) the megawatt plant with a COP of 50 and maybe 200 and c) the hot cat. Nevermind the QuarkX -- that lying fantasy is not even worth asking about.
(BTW, I said I was not an engineer but I didn't say I was totally ignorant about fluid flow and heat transfer or that I had no experience in labs, with calibration of instruments and processes or calorimetry in general -- I do have such experience.)
ETA: oh... you know about safety law? Then explain to me how it is that Rossi can legally run a megawatt nuclear fusion reactor in a populated area without nuclear regulatory commission inspection? Explain to me how come Rossi thinks SGS self-certification is meaningful in any way and finally, why it takes more than five years for his certificators (what the hell is a certificator, anyway?) to provide safety certification for his home ecats?
Also, how he can sell industrial power plants but not individual ecats presumably because of the same lack of certification? So he can sell fifty ecats in an array but not one (to industry)? You really believe what Rossi says about that? You sure you stated your credentials correctly?
Mary
What makes you think I believe Rossi? please provide evidence from any of my comments and I will be pleased to clarify.
What makes to think as an engineer I can tell you how Rossi's stuff works, no one here knows and I sure don't.
But I would like to know, and while sparing with you is fun (but more than that it highlights some pretty abhorrent practices of yours) it is in particular far from the scientific disciplines that I think will eventually answer your questions.
Best regards
Frank
Jed
According to Rossi's data there was 20 kW of electric heating, but no excess heat.
Who do you believe? Dewey or Rossi? For a boiler to be a boiler it needs to 'boil'. End of storey.
Best regards
Frank
Who do you believe? Dewey or Rossi? For a boiler to be a boiler it needs to 'boil'.
Nope. In the HVAC business they often call hot water heaters "boilers" too. See definition #4 here:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/boiler
"a tank in which water is heated and stored, as for supplying hot water."
I doubt Rossi's gadget was boiling, but there may have been some steam mixed with hot water. That would depend on the pressure data, which Rossi erased.
Mary
Then explain to me how it is that Rossi can legally run a megawatt nuclear fusion reactor in a populated area without nuclear regulatory commission inspection?
Where is the evidence that he has in fact a megawatt nuclear fusion reactor? Its not from the Mary Yugo stable that is a fact. But I await your impeccable penchant for corroborated fact. Cant wait........................
Best regards
Frank
Jed
I doubt Rossi's gadget was boiling, but there may have been some steam mixed with hot water. That would depend on the pressure data, which Rossi erased.
No evidence whatsoever for Rossi's e-cat being a boiler, I think you made it all up. But I give you some credit, your little ruse did have some legs but you cant' fool the engineers, maybe the programmers but not the engineers.
Nice try.
Best regards
Frank
No evidence whatsoever for Rossi's e-cat being a boiler, I think you made it all up.
One Last Time: if you look up the word "boiler" in any dictionary, or in any textbook on HVAC ("heating ventilation and air conditioning") you will see that "boiler" means any device which heats water. Whether it heats it to around 60°C for hot water, or over 100°C for boiling water applications, it is still called a boiler. That is industry-standard terminology. You don't get to decide it.
As I noted, a boiler is "a tank in which water is heated and stored, as for supplying hot water." Rossi's gadget resembles an on-demand boiler with a small tank. It is supposedly powered by cold fusion, but I am sure it is not.
Perhaps more to the point, if it is not a boiler, what do you think it is? What would you call it? Obviously the reactor portion is a reactor. (Actually an electric heater, but Rossi claims it is a fusion reactor.) What do you call something that heats water? People in the industry call that a "boiler."
Jed
It is supposedly powered by cold fusion, but I am sure it is not.
Well, how can you be sure its a boiler then.
Best regards
Frank
Jed, Frank argues just to argue. Now watch, he'll next ask me for proof of that.
Who do you believe? Dewey or Rossi? For a boiler to be a boiler it needs to 'boil'. End of storey.
It's all a matter of pressure, you even don't need any heat...
Well, how can you be sure its a boiler then.
Because it heats water! The pipe is hot. The water coming back into the tank is hot; it is around 60°C.
Anything that heats water is a boiler, by definition. (You disagree because you think you can overrule dictionaries and industries -- but the rest of the world agrees.)
Rossi and I.H. agree it is a boiler. They dispute this question: How much enthalpy does it add to the water? More than the electric power used to run the reactor units? Or the same amount? What is the heat balance?
"There are no regulations in Florida or anywhere else pertaining to cold nuclear fusion reactors, because most scientists do not think they exist. If there were a 1-MW nuclear fusion reactor, the authorities would have no regulations governing it, but that does not mean they would allow it to operate. If they found out about it, I am sure they would close it down, and probably cordon off the neighborhood with dozens of police cars."
It doesn't matter whether ithe device is nuclear, zero point energy, or millions of Maxwell's Demons dancing on a stage...the important meme here is "experimental". Prototype devices being tested for industrial applications are simply not regulated to the same stringency as devices being sold commercially. They are in a different category. I know this from twenty years of experience working with such systems. Admittedly, my experience is largely in Louisiana and Texas, both of which have far more industry of this sort than Florida, but I would think that would mean that such regulations would be more comprehensive rather than less. Instead of repeatedly regurgitating the same silly comments, just point me to the section of Florida's regulations that apply.
Jed & Mary
I'm with Warthog on this. So you are both just plain wrong, but then that's familiar territory for you both so I don't expect you to admit it, we will have to agree to disagree.
Best regards
Frank
Prototype devices being tested for industrial applications are simply not regulated to the same stringency as devices being sold commercially.
Perhaps that is true, but I expect a 1 MW reactor in a crowded neighborhood, in the building not zoned for scientific experiments, would cause widespread alarm among government officials. I expect they would call in the police if it were real, and they would shut it down forthwith. Since several cold fusion reactors have exploded for unknown reasons, I think that would be a wise course of action.
If you are going to test a 1 MW nuclear fusion reactor that works by unknown principles, I think you should put it somewhere such as a military testing range in the desert far from a populated area. At the present stage of development, I would recommend making cold fusion reactors no larger than 100 W or so, until the reaction is thoroughly understood and controlled.
None of this applies to Rossi's 1-year test gadget. It was no threat to anyone. It produced only the 20 kW of heat, all from electrical input power. There was no excess, and no cold fusion reaction. So it was no concern to any government agency, as far as I know.
Jed
None of this applies to Rossi's 1-year test gadget. It was no threat to anyone. It produced only the 20 kW of heat, all from electrical input power. There was no excess, and no cold fusion reaction. So it was no concern to any government agency, as far as I know.
So what is all this fuss about Florida Boiler Regulations about oh FUD Miester.
Best regards
Frank
Display MoreMary
What makes you think I believe Rossi? please provide evidence from any of my comments and I will be pleased to clarify.
What makes to think as an engineer I can tell you how Rossi's stuff works, no one here knows and I sure don't.
But I would like to know, and while sparing with you is fun (but more than that it highlights some pretty abhorrent practices of yours) it is in particular far from the scientific disciplines that I think will eventually answer your questions.
Best regards
Frank
WHAT WHAT WHAT? What makes one think you believe in Rossi?? Hmm I dunno, the fact that you argue every single point made by skeptics about Rossi. I can't believe I even read that!! That is like saying to a wolf licking his lips that has blood all over its face and deer bones at its feet....did you eat that deer mister Wolf? And the wolf responds...what makes you think I eat deer...you didn't see me eat it.... good lord.
