The Industrial Heat Answer

    Quote

    Pressing charges is what the police do. This is not a matter of opinion. You cannot go out and arrest people or charge them with fraud. I.H. cannot do this. Only law enforcement officers can do this.The government of Florida might be inclined to listen to I.H. because they are wealthy people, and money talks, but I.H. has no direct power to order Rossi arrested.


    Well, no, not in this instance. What I believe has already happened is that a private citizen with an interest in punishing Rossi and enforcing the laws against business fraud, has already filed a complaint with the state attorney's office or the local district attorney, not sure which but probably the state attorney. The state attorney examines the evidence in the complaint and decides whether they should mount their own investigation. If they do and the complaint is valid, the SA then decides if they will bring criminal charges. The police may then go out with a search warrant and bring in the suspect for questioning and bring in whatever evidence they can find. After questioning the suspect, witnesses, complainants and examining whatever they wish, the DA or SA decide if they wish to take the case to court and "charge" the suspect. If they charge him, he can be invited to surrender himself or if considered a flight risk, he can be formally arrested by the police.


    In this case I hope they will charge Rossi. It's a lot of work for the investigators and state attorneys but with the fraud being alleged to be upwards of $10M, there is a good chance that they will proceed, at least with the investigation.

    Abd Ul,


    So, you're implying that Rossi hacked the flow meter to give a COP of x 50?


    If that was the case, he must have hacked Penon's flow meter as well.


    I'm sure that the surveilance cameras have picked this up. But as part of the contract, wasn't the flow meters re-calibrated after the test?


    IH does not allege tax fraud. They allege that he has not paid taxes on certain income as contractually required. As I said, I'm not entirely convinced so far that a later failure to pay would be a contractual issue, but just to be clear: they do not claim he violated tax laws.


    Yes, he could file late. Having dealt extensively -- and successfully -- with the IRS, I know where the boundaries are, and he may not have crossed them. Nevertheless, he might find a Revenue Officer coming by to have a chat with him. $10 million paid to him in a lump sum? Ah, they will want a cut, if he hasn't already paid it. A Big Cut, plus interest and penalties. And if they think it is actual tax evasion and it's for over a million dollars in taxes, he might see something different from a reasonably polite chat with a Revenue Officer.

    @nuclearNut


    The questions you asked me are not bad ones but that ground has been covered here and elsewhere again and again so forgive me if I don't bother to take the time to reply. Do your homework. And of course, it is hardly necessary to do one's own tests to verify or deny a claim. I am pretty sure the Higgs boson is real but last I looked, I did not have very good access to my own Large Hadron Collider device. Only nutty enthusiasts ask dumb questions like those. But, as I have reported several times, in early 2011, Jed Rothwell and I had correspondence intended to culminate in a trip to Italy for a research team to test Rossi and of course, knowing it would be a competent test, Rossi never allowed it-- not even close.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    But we still have very little evidence either way. The best evidence we have so far is a fuzzy picture showing what appears to be a large plant of some kind on the "other" side of a partially completed wall. This tends to support there being an actual going concern.

    This is crazy. IHFB is referring to a photo of the Plant where a large black object can be seen on the other side of that short wall. For all we know, that is a big frame with black cloth over it. This is not in any way evidence of a going company. Then we have the letterhead Johnson used in his first report of power used. Johnson-Matthew Platinum Sponges? Really?


    Johnson might be able to plead ignorance. Jed thinks he must have known. Maybe. Maybe not. But he did apparently travel to North Carolina to sign the Terms document for the rental. And there are representations there. As I have mentioned, he gets to Answer. Perhaps he had reason to think everything was okay, his client Andrea Rossi assured him it was fine. How much did he understand of what was being done? But it looks like the Terms might have been a flat lie.


    "Don't worry, Howard, this is just a formality."

    I have not made it all the way through yet, but this paragraph says all you need to know. Not only were they unable to get his purported IP to work, nobody else has convincingly or repeatedly demonstrated a credible replication. This goes along with what I have been saying for some time: It is not a matter of if he lied, it is only about what and how far does it extend. The email posted earlier shows just how willing he was to scam his way out of a contract. What reason is there to believe he would have any compunctions about scamming for money? You could of course make the argument that he did not scam his way out of the contract (all he had to do was a valid demo to show a COP of 1), but that just shifts the scamming target back to IH with regard to the email.


    Quote

    9. During the same time period, Counter-Plaintiffs continued their own efforts to replicate Rossi’s purported results using the E-Cat IP that Leonardo and Rossi had provided them when they received the $10 million payment. Counter-Plaintiffs were unable to replicate any of Leonardo and Rossi’s claimed results or otherwise generate measurable excess energy. This led Counter-Plaintiffs to realize that there were only three possible conclusions: 1) Leonardo and Rossi’s claimed results, including the purported results from the Validation, were fabricated; 2) Leonardo and Rossi did not provide all of the E-Cat IP to Counter-Plaintiffs as was required under the License Agreement in exchange for the $10 million payment; or 3) both.

    Jed, I am tiring of killing this dead horse. I have NO OPINION on tests producing low levels of energy, especially at low COP's (wrong term as always) and short times. So don't write that I think they are wrong. I think they are indeterminate and/or I do not understand the technology which was used and/or the way the results are presented. And unravelling all that to my satisfaction would be far too time consuming if I could even do it.


    I do have an emphatic opinion about high power tests, defined however you like them. I do not believe they show excess energy suggestive of nuclear origin. From looking again at Storm's calibration curves, 5W up is fine as this seems within the range of high accuracy of Storms Seebeck Effect / gradient layer calorimeters. BTW, does he have any long duration, convincing tests, using that apparatus and yielding values well within his range of accurate calibration and stability? If so, I actually would be interested in seeing them. Can you link some?


    And then there is the concern about calibration drift between controls and real runs as someone else mentioned (ETA: it was kirkshanahan) but I am not sure that would matter in a properly set up SE calorimeter.

    "To the extent that the E-Cat IP has commercial value, Counter-Plaintiffs’ ability to capture that value is substantially harmed by Leonardo and Rossi’s improper disclosures."


    It is striking to me that IH even holds out the possibility of the E-Cat IP having commercial value after such a trashing of it.

    Rossi propably had his reasons. Maybe he knows that some fight are un-winable and that would be one of them.


    You wrote: " I am pretty sure the Higgs boson is real but last I looked, I did not have very good access to my own Large Hadron Collider device. Only nutty enthusiasts ask dumb questions like those. "


    This is textbook strawman arguments.


    LENR experiments are not really comparable to a Hadron collider. After the 1989 announcement, many of the harshest sceptics of Pons and Fleishmann never set foot in a lab. And they didn't know about or wanted to know about calorimetry, so they could understand how the experiments were done.


    To quote Albert Einstein: "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance"

    Quote

    Abd Ul,So, you're implying that Rossi hacked the flow meter to give a COP of x 50?If that was the case, he must have hacked Penon's flow meter as well.I'm sure that the surveilance cameras have picked this up. But as part of the contract, wasn't the flow meters re-calibrated after the test?


    The implication is that Penon and Fabiani and others were in on the scam and wrote falsified data and reports. What amazes me is that they thought that somehow they'd get away with it. What a Keystone Cops routine. Just a little bit of miscalculation!

    Quote

    This is textbook strawman arguments.

    Nonsense. You don't really think I am going to dabble in lithium-aluminum-hydride and hydrogen mixing experiments just because a convicted felon and lifelong failure and chronic consistent liar (Rossi) and some unresponsive and largely unknown Swedish scientists said it works, do you?

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Jed,


    IH clearly admits that they raised money based on all of this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seemed pretty convinced before that the money raised by IH was not connected to Rossi's / Leonardo's efforts.


    Perhaps IHFB might actually quote what they say. They acknowledge having received investment from Woodford. Okay, I'll be generous. Here is what they actually say:


    Quote

    To the extent that any response is required, Defendants admit that Industrial Heat raised substantial sums of money from numerous investors, including entities affiliated with the Woodford Funds. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph 70.


    I don't see anything there about "based on all this."


    Then, again, Paragraph 70 of the Complaint:

    Quote

    70. Upon information and belief, IH, DARDEN and VAUGHN were able to raise substantial sums of money from numerous investors including, but not limited to, approximately Fifty Million Dollars ($50,000,000.00) from the Woodford Funds (including Woodford Patient Capital Trust, PLC and CF Woodford Equity Income Fund), predicated upon their claims that IH and/or IPH had "acquired Rossi's intellectual property."


    So the Answer explicitly denies that this was "predicated" upon Rossi IP.


    I recommend a sauna. Hanging out on Planet Rossi has damaged thinking badly; get the toxins out.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    "To the extent that the E-Cat IP has commercial value, Counter-Plaintiffs’ ability to capture that value is substantially harmed by Leonardo and Rossi’s improper disclosures."


    It is striking to me that IH even holds out the possibility of the E-Cat IP having commercial value after such a trashing of it.

    Yes. However, this demonstrates the IH ability to hold contradictory concepts. Small minds find this very difficult. If one thinks something is such and so, why would anyone ever buy a hedge against it? If they think Rossi IP is worthless, why would they want to keep the Licence.


    It's a hedge.


    Something else is going on as well. They are showing how totally incompetent Rossi was at business. He behaved as if his agreements and responsibilities meant nothing and he could do whatever he wanted. He wants to blab about the 1 MW test on his blog? He blabs. He wants to take some fuel and give it to the Lugano professors for analysis, why he just takes it. Consistently, he seems to believe that he owns everything.


    I've been saying it for quite some time. Rossi is not sane. He does things that a sane crook wouldn't do. That, in fact, has been a common defense: if he were a crook, he'd be crazy to ....

    63. Defendants deny that the “test” referenced in Paragraph 64 – meaning the
    operation of the Plant in Doral, Florida in 2015 and early 2016 – was the “Guaranteed Performance” to be performed under the License Agreement.


    This statement of IH makes it all clear. There was no test in Doral. At least not the claimed contractual 1MW Test. They fooled Rossi and Rossi fooled them back. Thus all following denial is procedural, just judiciary logic(otherwise everything fails) and certainly not related with exact reality.


    What we know: There were two completely different 1MW test units shipped to Doral. The cores of the first Unit were built by IH (as we know from Deweys confession...).



    First:



    The second unit had a military grade quality build up, that was far out of the reach of Rossis engineers.


    Second:



    Most likely Rossi was granted a testbed (in Doral) to improve his process. The COP's A.R. quotes could be the ones they (IH's partner) measured else where... May be IH promised AR a bonus, but latest they believed it was to high/to early. Doral, as I expected since long time ago, seemed to be a mutually agreed fake site.


    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Indeed, using the E-Cat technology Plaintiffs directly provided them, Industrial Heat and IPH have been unable to produce any measurable excess energy.


    Note: This is about the pre 2013 technology!! Read carefully “as directly provided” - but later on...


    This statements is the proof that IH could improve the process. Otherwise the story would have stopped here (2013)!


    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Defendants deny that the E-Cat produces energy substantially in excess of the amount of energy input into the reaction at a cost substantially below that of more traditional energy sources;


    Read the word substantially! This is investors slang. Does it mean 10,20,50,100 ?


    Quote from JedRothwell

    The COP was 1. There was no excess heat.


    This statement is FUD and silly. Take a break Jed: it's not Your day...


    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    Where I am from, it is not terribly wrong to not file for taxes late (even very late, years) unless you know you owe tax money. Just a snarky letters come once a year.


    This comment in the answer to AR's complaint (there is no such thing as a plaint!). It is just a threat. IH themselves know where to place money to avoid taxes. Who knows where Leonardo.. is located and and how they manage their assets.

    Quote from Shane D.

    Gameover,


    While that first e-mail shows Rossi to be a sleazebag, it also supports the narrative that he has something.

    Actually, no. Rossi was creative, taking advantage of accidents.


    Shane, you are thinking that he could have run a successful test. Maybe not. Maybe the test actually failed and then he explained it to IH this way.


    IH notes that they did not care about the agreement with Hydro Fusion, because it was outside their Territory. So that whole sequence really makes no sense. Over and over, reading these mails, and as I have from JONP, I get a sense of someone who is seriously imbalanced. That he would think that his little story about Hydro Fusion would impress the "Cherokee" people, as he calls them, shows a poor judge of character. He was thinking of them as selfish and greedy. And stupid.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    IH clearly admits that they raised money based on all of this.


    I do not see where they said that, but raising money is not against the law, as long as they told the investors the truth. The investors do not appear to be withdrawing the funds, even though this lawsuit has been going on for months, so evidently they are satisfied.


    Actually, I talk like an academic, wrapping all assertions in rhetorical cotton wool.


    How do you know what I have witnessed? What you have you witnessed? Has it occurred to you that I might have witnessed more than I let on? Read Exhibit 5 and you will see that I knew what was up with the flow meter.

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