This assertion has not been established. No piping diagram has been provided.
What, exactly, has been provided?
Words. A few photos. A part number. Some flashy light things.
I haven't seen any steam coming from anything.
I haven't seen a Customer operation. Just a wall.
The reactor looks cold.
The warehouse looks cold.
Hotter in the office, if sweat was an indicator.
Display MoreWhat, exactly, has been provided?
Words. A few photos. A part number. Some flashy light things.
I haven't seen any steam coming from anything.
I haven't seen a Customer operation. Just a wall.
The reactor looks cold.
The warehouse looks cold.
Hotter in the office, if sweat was an indicator.
Just be patient, wait for the release of information, and don't make up things.
QA/QC is Quality Assurance, Quality Control. It is otherwise known as a bullshit identification and interruption device (ed: or process).
Why are you guys ganging up to down-vote axil all the time? He is a nuisance, but a lovable nuisance, and he is our own nuisance. And just sometimes he comes up with tasty salads containing good ideas. Be nicer to him please.
Not much enlightenment from the last 4 pages!
QuoteSo, you suggest that it was very obvious to IH that for 9 months of the test, the whole thing was a sham.
Rossi recently wrote the following on his blog:
"during 9 months of the test IH repeatedly accompanied to visit the test their investors, explaining to them how the ERV was measuring the performance, showing the seals of the flowmeter, showing the temperature measurement system ( agreed upon directly between Mr Tom Darden and the ERV) and IH collected many million dollars of investments from Woodford after the officers of Woodford visited the test twice, during the first 9 months, and repeatedly accompanied Chinese top level investors and engineers to visit the test."
So, if what Rossi says really took place, and if what you say is really true, then this will not reflect well on IH.
This is catching at straws, and silly. IH has stated that at the start of the test, before the obvious deficiencies were noticed, they thought it was as Rossi stated and for real.
Consider, IH has the big license with Rossi, and possible investors. Of course the investors would want to look round the Rossi plant which IH were paying for: whatever the then state of IH's belief in the mystery customer. As for what IH told the investors about the plant - Rossi cannot know that.
Further: IH have said that initially they believed Rossi's "mystery customer" was real. So at the start this plant would have been a positive thing even if IH had some doubts, then, about its authenticity.
There is no reason for all this to lack bad given what is now said: even taking Rossisays as gospel. (The one thing Rossi could not know is what they said to customers in a cautionary way after/before the visit).
This argument from IHFB is nothing but assumption twisted to further a fixed view that he is promoting regardless of evidence.
@axil - the ERV figures claim 1MW out. If they are wrong the whole test is wrong - so suggesting a high COP at much lower power out does not work. Further the input power figures I believe have been seen as utility bills.
Re 1MW plausibility.
If you bend over backwards you might reckon a super-high power fan in that roof vent could keep the factory temp down to +10C from ambient - which I guess would mean 40C most of the summer: not good and clearly not what was observed. You then need IH IR scans not to see it, and the fan to be taken down invisibly. This is very far-fetched (and I could not find high enough powered fans, though I'm sure they exist). Bend over backwards further and you do the same but with evaporative cooling. The problem here is that at the needed ultra high flow rate the cooler would be enormous, and the water required also enormous. The advantage is the people in the factory would not fry if you had mega amounts of evaporative cooling because the air pumped in would be below ambient. I suspect also that so much airflow would create a very obvious wind in the factory. You need two (invisible, or removed by pixies) chimneys to the roof for inlet and outlet from the closed "customer area" to prevent that.
Finally if you believe in mythical heat-eating industrial processes (basically an inverse boiler - and entropy means we don't see such things) and invisible pixies to bring/remove large amounts of physical product - you are bending over backwards even further.
It seems that for some people such contorted exercises shed light on the Rossi/IH case? I can't say I agree.
Making judgments about the world is not about deductive logic - everything true or false. You take the total likelihood of different things and compare them. The Rossi support here starts with a very high certainty of belief that, for reasons people who have looked at the calorimetry don't believe, Rossi's tests proved almost certainly that he had high power LENR. And therefore they try to find extraordinarily improbable explanations for the facts emerging now.
IHFB et al - do you still claim that IH behaviour (according to their story) is unlikely? Which element of this - stating explicitly all the assumptions you make - do you find implausible?
Regards, THH
IH has stated that at the start of the test, before the obvious deficiencies were noticed, they thought it was as Rossi stated and for real.
Since that test began around 18 months ago, that suggests that IH still believed in 2015 - certainly in early 2015. Darden's 'don't mention Rossi' speech at ICCF 19 was in March 2015. It certainly seems that he was being at least cautious by then. I find it hard to believe that these 'deficiencies' were either noticed so quickly , or are the real reason they changed their opinion - though obviously it suits the court case to say so. And they still had a certain amount of faith otherwise they would not have bothered dragging Woodford's team to Miami twice. So something else happened. I wonder what it was?
it is hard for common people to understand what is the faith of a VC.
Faith is "0.1% chance to be right" for a VC.
Anyway it is more rational than refusing to investigate an anomaly when you pretend to be a scientists.
QuoteI find it hard to believe that these 'deficiencies' were either noticed so quickly , or are the real reason they changed their opinion
They had other evidence, e.g. Lugano, which they set store by, and which turned out wrong because 6 independent profs made a mistake and persisted in affirming it. That took quite some time to unwind, they seem to have looked seriously at the valid critiques in 2015 some time.
I imagine that when they finally worked out the issues with IR thermography in Lugano, that also invalidated a whole load of in-house testing using the same methodology, and they had no evidence. At that point they would revisit all Rossi's secretiveness in a very different light.
During the whole test one of the neighboring units (7863) was on sale... One less to ask...
During the whole test one of the neighboring units (7863) was on sale... One less to ask..
Yes, that is the one that connects to unit 7865 with the forklift-sized door. They could be sold together.
Technopack was in there. They moved to 700 Sawgrass Corporate Pkwy in July-August 2015.
As for what IH told the investors about the plant - Rossi cannot know that.
Hopefully that will come out in trial. Was there audio recording in addition to video? That would be helpful to get to the bottom of all of this.
Here is my guess: Darden either pretended that he thought the operation was stellar, thereby attracting tens of millions of $, or he warned off the investors, and they didn't invest. But we know at least Woodford invested, and it wasn't because of some low power LENR experiment existing on lenr-canr for the past 15 years.
The question as to the destination of the heat produced has been answered -- an endothermic chemical process.
Let's examine this possibility. First of all, if the conjectured process is spontaneous, it would get cold spontaneously. For example, the evaporation of liquid air. You wouldn't bother to apply expensive heat to do this. So it is reasonable to suppose that the endothermic reaction is not spontaneous at room temperature but it is around 100 C. So the reaction must be close to equilibrium. As it absorbs considerable enthalpy, there must be a corresponding very large increase in entropy (almost certainly a phase change). The evaporation of water might be a possible candidate except for the difficulty of disposing of the very visible steam (36 tons per day). I suggest no process fits the facts.
QuoteHere is my guess: Darden either pretended that he thought the operation was stellar, thereby attracting tens of millions of $, or he warned off the investors, and they didn't invest. But we know at least Woodford invested, and it wasn't because of some low power LENR experiment existing on lenr-canr for the past 15 years.
That is an understandable speculation. I expect that Darden did both. Until some time in 2015 IH was (it seems most likely) getting positive results from Lugano-style reactors measured with the wrong calorimetry. However this wrong calorimetry was validated in detail by 6 profs and they probably relied on it and pointed this out to investors. In that context Rossi, whatever his defects, was the goose some of whose eggs were golden. Darden would highlight the defects and also the apparently golden egg. He would highlight the inconsistency - other calorimetry methods (perhaps) failed to confirm what the gold standard 6 prof method confirmed.But LENR is known inconsistent - he had much better consistency (all the Lugano-style reactors measured using IR show excess heat) than ever before.
There is some guesswork here, but it is in line with all we know.
Why are you guys ganging up to down-vote axil all the time? He is a nuisance, but a lovable nuisance, and he is our own nuisance. And just sometimes he comes up with tasty salads containing good ideas. Be nicer to him please.
Rossi brought this controversy on himself. He complicated the 1 year test by layering many irrelevant requirements that Rossi believed was required to make a viable commercial product. It is alway best to kept a test restricted in satisfying the minimum set of requirements. Rossi imposed extreme complication on this 1 year long rube goldberg test that only tends to confuse the simple minded.
It takes a very involved effort to untangle what is absolutely required from what Rossi wanted to do... what he thought would be neat and whizbang. The ERV should have rejected the test design as too opaque. The simple minded are highly agitated and aggravated by this over the top complication and become belligerent. The underdeveloped mind is wiped into a tizzy by something that is difficult to digest. When this complication is used by astroturfers to make the situation even more obscure, it only drives the simpletons even more wild. As always, adhere to the KISS principle if Rossi wanted to kept the scalded war dogs from howling.
Quote from axilIt takes a very involved effort to untangle what is absolutely required from what Rossi wanted to do... what he thought would be neat and whizbang. The ERV should have rejected the test design as too opaque. The simple minded are highly agitated and aggravated by this over the top complication and become belligerent. The underdeveloped mind is wiped into a tizzy by something that is difficult to digest. When this complication is used by astroturfers to make the situation even more obscure, it only drives the simpletons even more wild. As always, adhere to the KISS principle if Rossi wanted to kept the scalded war dogs from howling.
Probably the best excuse yet for a claimed 1MW reactor that does not work.
I can't understand a word. Underdeveloped mind has been wiped into a tizzy.
Display MoreAs I have mentioned before, preparation of the Ni (rather than Pt)
sponges requires heating a mixture of 50% caustic solution and Ni/Al
alloy to leach out the aluminium and leave the Ni sponge. Depending on
the type of sponge (fine powder or honeycomb chunks) the mixture
requires heating to 90C and maintaining for many hours. Some of the
"multiple boil" processes will require repeating this procedure.
Additionally, from what is known, the heat is also used to boil down the aluminate residue solution to make disposal easier.
Unfortunately 50% caustic soda boils at a temperature well above 100 C so Rossi's device would be useless. The same is true for the aluminiumate residue. Worse still, the reaction is very exothermic! No heat would be consumed, but extra chemical heat would be produced (as well as hydrogen gas).
I think the idea was that the simple minded had scalded the war dogs, and built a Rube Goldberg device, and that that the war dogs had whipped the simple minded into a tizzy.
@axil,
So Rossi intentionally was agitating and aggravating the simple minded, and whipping the scalded war dogs into a frenzy with his whizbang Rube Goldberg device on purpose?
Rossi is famously impolitic. He really does not give a damn about what others of lessor abilities think about his work. He just says "screw you" and moves on. Rossi has bigger fish to fry than to have to baby sit the lesser class into the proper mode of thinking. If he had to deal with all the stupidity in the world, he would get nothing done.
