Personally I think diddling with a few particles (of whatever hue) on a bench-top creates a system that while it may bear some comparison to what some scientists surmise is going on in a BH is 'pushing it'. Interesting experiments, but for the moment it is a 'castle in the air'.
BECs are commonly misunderstood. They are not necessarily "produced from low-density gases." Experimentally, they are observable at extremely low temperatures, but "temperature" is a bulk measure. Whenever a collection of bosons is at very low relative momentum, it will collapse into a BEC. Both Kim and Takahashi theories posit that this can occur at room temperature or higher. That is, the local temperature of a small collection of bosons is close to absolute zero, caused by confinement under certain conditions.
The Rydberg matter research of Holmlid is unconfirmed. Otherwise, it's of substantial interest, but until it is confirmed, it could be highly misleading. Holmlid himself is building an extensive research approach, with many publications that are accepted in journals, but almost entirely citing himself.
A BEC is extremely dense. It might be like a black hole, I have not looked at the math. As a very small black hole, it would not last long, and by its nature, it could not "swallow" other matter as we are accustomed to thinking of black holes as doing. Any incoming energy would disrupt the BEC.
However, generally, BECs would be neutral particles. Once formed, they could create transmutation at some level. Takahashi has calculated that a two-deuterium-molecule condensate would collapse in about a femtosecond if the intial conditions are set up -- which only requires very low momentum within and between the two molecules -- and then fuse by tunneling within a femtosecond. I consider Takahashi's work to be one of the promising theorietical approaches for cold fusion, but it is far from a complete theory. As to an overall theory, Storms has done it, but his mechanism is preposterous, though he is strong is on conditions (as might be expected for a chemist).
Let's assume that LENR produces BEC analogues that also are tiny black holes analogues, obviously not of size and duration enough to be dangerous.
From this article, what would happen if a black hole the size of an atomic nucleus were to pass through the earth:
QuoteSo just how bad are these little black holes, really? ... The answer, it seems, is no worse than a mild earthquake. As ScienceNOW reports, Princeton researchers have simulated the likely most common mass of these primordial black holes and found that these objects would take about a minute to make it through the Earth and back out again, with the only evidence of their passage a few mild tremors. As primordial black holes get bigger, the tremors of course also grow more violent, but such black holes are much, much rarer.
How small are the black holes we're talking about?
The Rydberg matter research of Holmlid is unconfirmed.
May be you know it: Holmid just reproduced an effect SPAWAR (about a particle source..) patented some years ago. We already discussed this some months ago.
Thus it's up to You to tell us, which new aspect of Holmlids work (not already covered/claimed by the SPAWAR patent) is suspect/not confirmed.
Quote from AbdWhenever a collection of bosons is at very low relative momentum, it will collapse into a BEC. Both Kim and Takahashi theories posit that this can occur at room temperature or higher. That is, the local temperature of a small collection of bosons is close to absolute zero, caused by confinement under certain conditions.
BECs exist when bosons do not have enough energy to be pushed above ground state. Since they have integral spin any number of particles can occupy the single minimum energy state in which they are indistinguishable. BECs therefore break when the bosons have additional energy equal to the energy difference between lowest and next lowest quantum state.
since deltaT ~ kT for thermal equilibrium we require kT << E(1) - E(0) where E(1) is the 1st state and E(0) is the ground state.
What containment does is not to generate low temperatures, but to increase the energy needed to get to a non-ground-state. That is because from H.U.P. deltaP * deltaX > h/(4pi). Containment reduces deltaX hence increasing deltaP. Thus smaller objects have higher momentum (and therefore also energy) gaps between energy levels and are therefore easier to keep in ground state at higher temperatures. You get this equally from a solution of the Schroedinger equation in a box which gives you harmonic solutions at higher wave number for smaller boxes (obviously). The higher wave number means also higher frequency and therefore more energy.
It is the opposite of what Abd says here, though the conclusion is the same.
There are other ways to get BEC at higher temps, for example having particle-like phenomena with high effective mass in a solid-state system. These pseudo-particles can mimic the exotic effects got from real BECs, because they obey the same maths, although they do not have the same interesting properties at a fundamental level.
BECs are an obviously interesting thing if you want to invoke collective phenomena to bridge the energy gap between solid state energies (10 eV) and nuclear energies (1MeV).
Nametag removed. Alan
Quote from WyttenbachMay be you know it: Holmid just reproduced an effect SPAWAR (about a particle source..) patented some years ago. We already discussed this some months ago.Thus it's up to You to tell us, which new aspect of Holmlids work (not already covered/claimed by the SPAWAR patent) is suspect/not confirmed.
Maybe it is also up to you to present clear and complete evidence that Holmlid has done this reproduction. Patents are notoriously bad as scientific references so you would do better to refer to published (or internal) SPAWAR research reports to have a precise description of what is being reproduced.
@THH, I think you're reading more details into Abd's remark than he had in mind. (I'm sure he'll clarify.) I don't think he was suggesting that the collection of bosons would be confined. The example I have seen given in this connection is that of two molecules of D2 coming at one another crosswise, where they pass through one another. For a brief moment they presumably form a "+" sign. At that moment, supposedly, you might get a BEC.
On the basis of intuition alone, I find Kim's and Takahashi's BEC suggestions implausible in the extreme.
Maybe it is also up to you to present clear and complete evidence that Holmlid has done this reproduction. Patents are notoriously bad as scientific references so you would do better to refer to published (or internal) SPAWAR research reports to have a precise description of what is being reproduced.
@THH: Are You ABD?
You are free to comment about any detail of Holmlids experiment - and please tell us in detail which aspect is not confirmed... (Without any relation to others...)
How small are the black holes we're talking about?
The BECs form on the surface of the metalized hydride clusters,,,aka rydberg matter clusters and are made from surface plasmon polaritons that cover the surfaces of these nanowires.
A global BEC is formed from a entangled connection of many rydberg matter clusters. Rossi forces these clusters to aggregate together though the application of a high voltage(up to 100,000 volts) DC potential. This is produced by the Tao effect. A bright ball lightning type of EMF ball this formed in this way,
Perhaps. 
But how small are the black holes we're talking about?
Rossi forces these clusters to aggregate together though the application of a high voltage(up to 100,000 volts) DC potential.
When precisely do you think this part of the experiment is performed? And how do you estimate the voltage used?
On the basis of intuition alone, I find Kim's and Takahashi's BEC suggestions implausible in the extreme.
There are two types of BECs, Low temperature BECs that have reached equilibrium at its lowest energy level of its components; the BEC is the BEC that everybody is familiar with. Then there's the non equilibrium BEC formed by Surface Plasmon Polaritons who reach a state of condensation through a chaotic process that has come to a steady state condition.
See
When precisely do you think this part of the experiment is performed? And how do you estimate the voltage used?
As was shown in the Lugano demo, waveform stimulation produces a limited power density reaction that does not exceed at most COP=3 and some say far less. The stimulation that might be used to produce the very high COP is the electrostatic stimulation that generates the TAO effect. That is the reference to the two electrodes that can produce an EMF potential of up to 100,000 volt and is defined in an update to the Rossi patent.
See my post: High Temperature Superconductivity and LENR
See the patent update here:
https://patentscope.wipo.int/s…621/PDOC/WO2016018851.pdf
If you read this patent update that references the NEW electrostatic stimulator which operates between 50 and 100 KV, Rossi says that the resistance heater is NO LONGER REQUIRED.
Rossi also says that the reaction temperature is between 400 to 600C. This means that the update is applied to the LOW TEMPERATURE REACTOR.
Perhaps.
These BECs(the term black holes have a bad political connotation) cover the surface of the metalized hydride crystals.
A fluorescent picture of Surface Plasmon Polaritons on the surface of a microwire.
The size of these crystals vary based on the elements that form the hydride. The water crystal is quite large and can be seen by a microscope as LeClair has photographed.
See slide 18
Quote from AxilAs was shown in the Lugano demo, waveform stimulation produces a limited power density reaction that does not exceed at most COP=3 and some say far less.
Some say that there is no evidence of COP different from one. In that case the Lugano demo certainly does not show there is any reaction at all!
