You might want to clarify what "produces commercial e-cats" means to avoid future arguments.
I'm prepared to trust Alan SMith's judgment better than pages of legalese.
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Rossi claims to have regulatory permissions for industrial versions of the E-Cat. Permission for industrial use is far easier than for domestic use. I have had to obtain permission for all sorts of equipment, including furnaces, over the years. What is you experience?
The "test" will be whether it performs to specifications. Rossi has stated the buyer gets his money back if it fails to do so.
Adrian,
And you actually believe him?
I mean you really, truly believe him?
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@ Shane D.,
Are you saying you hold out the chance that Rossi "may have been the brightest success in the entire CF/LENR story", or are you implying he was successful in fooling a lot of people?
I'm just saying that we cannot rule out that they are both true, … in the only way they can be both true.
QuoteNonetheless, this is the first I heard of Ahern/Rossi worked together. That must have been very interesting to say the least...fire and fire.
Isn't it strange? I mean, the fact that nobody talked openly about this collaboration. What was the reason to keep it secret?
QuoteYours is also the first speculation I read that Rossi *may* have first worked with the DOD, and then gone on to introduce himself to Focardi.
It came from Passerini years ago. You couldn't have read it because it was in Italian. It appears at the end of a post published on 22passi in December 2014 (1). He wrote (please use a translator): "Secondo il mio informatore, prima di tornare in Italia e cercare Focardi, Andrea Rossi aveva lavorato per un certo periodo proprio insieme a Brian Ahern nel medesimo laboratorio USA. Aggiungo (ma questa è solo una mia supposizione) di sospettare che potesse trattarsi di un laboratorio militare/governativo."
Then Passerini added: "Per correttezza vi informo che a suo tempo chiesi a Rossi se fosse vero che negli USA avesse lavorato fianco a fianco con Brian Aher nella ricerca sulla fusione fredda: beh, me lo smentì categoricamente definendola una sciocchezza. Ma chissà...
Arriverà a questo punto una analoga smentita da parte di Brian Ahern?"
QuoteI just wish you could tell us where you hope to go with it
Don't the people here (or at least part of us) wish to have a better understanding of the facts?
How can we, if we ignore the true beginning of the story?
(1) https://22passi.blogspot.it/20…an-ahern-da-colleghi.html
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And you actually believe him?
You are a slow learner. I have repeated many times that I don't know. That we should wait for more evidence. Also added that I think he probably does.
A rather safer position than the skeptics, many of whom are certain that he doesn't and will look very foolish if he does.
I'm prepared to bet at 10:1 that he does. How about you? -
I'm just saying that we cannot rule out that they are both true, … in the only way they can be both true.
So you believe Rossi might have something just like Jed believes. Yet, you have written many posts blaming him for supporting Rossi in his early years...why? Does not make sense to me. So how about you wait until we know for sure about Rossi, and if it comes to past he had absolutely nothing, then go after Jed? BTW, this is the first time in 5 years you have admitted Rossi may have something. None of your posts on any forum even hinted to that.
It came from Passerini years ago. You couldn't have read it because it was in Italian. It appears at the end of a post published on 22passi in December 2014 (1). He wrote (please use a translator): "Secondo il mio informatore, prima di tornare in Italia e cercare Focardi, Andrea Rossi aveva lavorato per un certo periodo proprio insieme a Brian Ahern nel medesimo laboratorio USA. Aggiungo (ma questa è solo una mia supposizione) di sospettare che potesse trattarsi di un laboratorio militare/governativo."
Then Passerini added: "Per correttezza vi informo che a suo tempo chiesi a Rossi se fosse vero che negli USA avesse lavorato fianco a fianco con Brian Aher nella ricerca sulla fusione fredda: beh, me lo smentì categoricamente definendola una sciocchezza. Ma chissà...This is the translation:
"According to my informant, before going back to Italy and looking for Focardi, Andrea Rossi had worked for a certain period together with Brian Ahern in the same laboratory in the USA, adding (but this is only my guess) to suspect that it could be a military / government laboratory. " For correctness I inform you that at the time I asked Rossi if it were true that in the USA he worked side by side with Brian Aher in the research on cold fusion: well, he categorically denied me defining it as nonsense. Who knows..."
I have read 22Passi/Passerini for years. Not that I speak Italian, but it Google translates well. I love Daniel. Very passionate man, but he has been wrong about Rossi many a time. Yes, he was supposedly a confidant of Rossi, but like all Rossi's "friends", he was used. This one passage of his came from that period. I would not trust it at all.
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I do not understand if Rossi does have regulatory approval of his devices, why then doesn’t he just simply post it for verification. It seems like it could be good for his sales. Surely he realized many doubt his honesty after he admitted he intentionally mislead HydroFusion for his own benefit. Posting an official approval that could be checked should do nothing but help him.
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I do not understand if Rossi does have regulatory approval of his devices, why then doesn’t he just simply post it for verification. It seems like it could be good for his sales. Surely he realized many doubt his honesty after he admitted he intentionally mislead HydroFusion for his own benefit. Posting an official approval that could be checked should do nothing but help him.
OG,
Rossi has no "industrial certification". That is just another one of his ruses/lies. He did get a "Safety Certification" in Sept. 2012, or 13. It was based on the verification company witnessing an Ecat test, run by a Third Party. We came to know years later, that the Third Party was Penon.
Fast forward to IH. In order to convince IH to agree to Doral, Rossi made a "pitch" -as Jones Day described it, to Darden, that along with making money on the energy sold to the "customer", ironing out kinks in the operation, that he would be able to get the necessary "certifications".
Obviously, from the court records, there was no such attempt by Rossi to get any certification. Shortly after the settlement with IH, Rossisaid on his JONP, that he had dismantled the 1 MW plant...
so there is no way he attained an industrial certification.
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Shane, yes, that is my take on it as well. I think it is obvious which position to take in all this betting.
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Shane, yes, that is my take on it as well. I think it is obvious which position to take in all this betting.
Yes, I figured your post was rhetorical. Should have mentioned that.
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I have read 22Passi/Passerini for years.
Ah yes! I remember that blog from the distant past. Does Mr. Passerini still support Rossi? Almost all people have stopped supporting him after about 3 years or less of following his antics. Very, very few keep the faith, not because of the skeptics mind you, but because of Rossi himself!
Shane, do you know what stance Mr. Passerini has now a days?
Has anyone heard anything, positive or negative from HydoFusion in the past year? You would think they would be laying the public ground work for the mass commercialization coming this year as Rossi is purporting!
I even read Rossi is now claiming his QuarkX reactor is reaching 11,000 degrees! Is this all using the plastic sprinkler parts along with the common plumbing pipe used in the "Stockolm"
demo! Or has Rossi "invented" a magnetic bubble in the past 3 months? One that large, scientific hot fusion groups have failed at! Perhaps he has invented more miracle materials to withstand such high temperature! After all, he has invented other wonderous materials at will, so why not magnetic bubbles? His calculations using 1ev to determine temperature are also ground breaking! What a genius! Why, just with the Doral test he invented new math, new material science, nuclear theory, new electronic controls, advanced heat exchangers, revolutionary endothermic materials, radical invoicing techniques, super economical platinum sponge manufacturing, new light producing technology, new thrust producing technology, possible anti-matter creation AND 1MW EXCESS HEAT!
The above greatest ground breaking advances of the century, all done with two employees! (a pin ball electrician and an out of work computer network guy) All done in a small, rented warehouse with no technical equipment to speak of! Genius indeed!
It takes NO faith at all to believe this guy Rossi! It is totally believable and logical that he is telling the truth!. I applaud the faithful as they have so much logical fact to put their faith in! It is "Safer" to believe him than to question him!
Case Closed!
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One more point on permits, etc. If you are selling to either commercial or consumer markets, your product has to be deemed safe enough for the insurance companies to allow it to be installed.
That is what UL (Underwriter's Laboratory) does. It is an insurance company consortium. UL certifies that products are safe. The products have the UL tag on them. As far as I know, there is no law against selling products not certified by UL, but no vendor would do that. It would leave them wide open to a lawsuit in the event the product caused harm.
When you submit a product to UL, you have send them a complete set of blueprints, a list of all the parts included in the machine, and several test machines. No secrets are allowed.
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My direct experience is that regulators for glass melting furnaces were only interested in the emissions and neither knew nor cared anything about the design.
My direct experience is assisting people who submitted machines for certification at UL. I have seen the applications and the requirements. That trumps your experience. See: https://www.ul.com/
Plus I know how government regulators work. They do not simply allow anyone to install anything. You can be sure that glass melting furnaces are covered by a long list of regulations, and regulators make sure these regulations are followed. It is not an honors system. Here are the regs from the EPA; you can be sure there are many others for safety, operator training and so on:
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I have no problems accepting cheques to hold. But somebody else ought to be the adjudicator.
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Ah yes! I remember that blog from the distant past. Does Mr. Passerini still support Rossi? Almost all people have stopped supporting him after about 3 years or less of following his antics. Very, very few keep the faith, not because of the skeptics mind you, but because of Rossi himself!
Shane, do you know what stance Mr. Passerini has now a days?
Has anyone heard anything, positive or negative from HydoFusion in the past year? You would think they would be laying the public ground work for the mass commercialization coming this year as Rossi is purporting!
I even read Rossi is now claiming his QuarkX reactor is reaching 11,000 degrees! Is this all using the plastic sprinkler parts along with the common plumbing pipe used in the "Stockolm"
demo! Or has Rossi "invented" a magnetic bubble in the past 3 months? One that large, scientific hot fusion groups have failed at! Perhaps he has invented more miracle materials to withstand such high temperature! After all, he has invented other wonderous materials at will, so why not magnetic bubbles? His calculations using 1ev to determine temperature are also ground breaking! What a genius! Why, just with the Doral test he invented new math, new material science, nuclear theory, new electronic controls, advanced heat exchangers, revolutionary endothermic materials, radical invoicing techniques, super economical platinum sponge manufacturing, new light producing technology, new thrust producing technology, possible anti-matter creation AND 1MW EXCESS HEAT!
The above greatest ground breaking advances of the century, all done with two employees! (a pin ball electrician and an out of work computer network guy) All done in a small, rented warehouse with no technical equipment to speak of! Genius indeed!
It takes NO faith at all to believe this guy Rossi! It is totally believable and logical that he is telling the truth!. I applaud the faithful as they have so much logical fact to put their faith in! It is "Safer" to believe him than to question him!
Case Closed!
Bob,
Passerini has not mentioned Rossi as a friend, for about 3 years now. He is into Italian politics lately, and that is more complicated than LENR...so not going there! Th rest of what you say is right on the mark. So much so, that when AA awakes, he may have something to say about it.
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You are a slow learner. I have repeated many times that I don't know. That we should wait for more evidence. Also added that I think he probably does.
A rather safer position than the skeptics, many of whom are certain that he doesn't and will look very foolish if he does.
I'm prepared to bet at 10:1 that he does. How about you?Sure,
Put a date on a product manufactured by Andrea Rossi that produces
Energy Out > Energy in
That can be verified by any US based national lab, I’m okay with that.
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Plus I know how government regulators work. They do not simply allow anyone to install anything. You can be sure that glass melting furnaces are covered by a long list of regulations, and regulators make sure these regulations are followed. It is not an honors system. Here are the regs from the EPA; you can be sure there are many others for safety, operator training and so on:
It is clear you have never worked in a heavy industrial environment. You are wrong. There may be exceptions, but I can't think of any equipment in a glass plant that has UL approval. (Maybe the light switch in the office.)
I have designed and built a number of glass melting furnaces over the years and can assure you there was no list of government regulations to follow. let alone a long one, up until I retired. I don't like it when you you essentially say that I'm lying, when in fact you don't know what you are talking about.
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I have no problems accepting cheques to hold. But somebody else ought to be the adjudicator.
Thank you Alan. I have four $50 American Express Travellers Cheques.
I will send one or more depending on how many skeptics take the bet. Seems several have got cold feet already.
I hope the outcome will be fairly clear cut one way or the other. If it isn't we'll haggle at that time.
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I saw a copy of every "industrial approval" that the R'ster claimed with IH. They were from paid contract consultants and not worth the paper they were printed on. He didn't have a single useful industrial certification for anything.
Somehow Hydrofusion has let the R'ster back in. I guess he explained in his special charming way that he knew along that they would be together and that
their temporary split was just something he had to do to "protect" Hydrofusion and the "IP". There is no telling what he has promised them and I'm looking forward to seeing how that all ends as he runs his patented expectation / calendar method.
And what in the world is going on with the Swedish researchers? Its seems like their reputations are at stake and that it is an all or none outcome they are gambling on.
Lastly, AMEX still issues Travelers Checks"?
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"And what in the world is going on with the Swedish researchers? Its seems like their reputations are at stake and that it is an all or none outcome they are gambling on."
...
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I even read Rossi is now claiming his QuarkX reactor is reaching 11,000 degrees! Is this all using the plastic sprinkler parts along with the common plumbing pipe used in the "Stockolm"
demo!It is the Ecat SK that Rossi is researching that reaches 11000 degrees.
