What is it about this sector that attracts people, sans the Planet Rossi SPs, with little or no ability to process reality?
Mainly this is caused by wishful thinking and the desire to save the planet from the energy crisis and global warming. It is also caused by people who want to make a lot of money selling cold fusion energy. And, as I said, this is characteristic of all new science. New science, as well as new fields of technology, art, politics and so on tend to attract strange people.
You got it in one there, Jed.
This episode tells us nothing about LENR but everything about the psychology of ungrounded hope.
Well said! It is wishful thinking. With Rossi, the outcome has been tragic, and infuriating. I have seen many similar outcomes in cold fusion. In most cases, there is no harm other than researchers wasting their time, or me wasting my time.
Man-decades and tens of millions of dollars have been invested by those chasing the ecat replications. I know that IH has at least 1 man-decade and $20M in Ni-H right now - anyone dare to guess the other man-decades in China, the EU, Asia, US, Russia and India?
It seems winds of madness are blowing here.
We know for certain that:
- a plant existed /exists in Doral;
- it was in function state for 352 days continuously;
- technology defined as phenomena of transport, transfer and transformtion of mattter, energy and information have happened there;
- there are opposing opinions here if it worked as reported- more energy out than energy in- however the naysayers cannot show real proofs and come with factoids
- but are accusing their opponents that are as a crazy religious cult. See the Oppressors' 10 commandments , No. 3.
Even more madness is in the NiH-less cold fusion
research program- suicide or killing LENR's future.
PdD is not a complete form of LENR and will be never a technology.
I fear this is an extension of the hatred against Rossi to NiH- and to use mild words- a scientific crime. As killling the Rossi process IF it works is a technological crime.
Forum discussion suffer of specific illnesses as Dilutitis, Disfocusitis, Disputitis, Defrostitis etc.
now we have here Degeneratitis.
I know that some like Ed S. and Brillouin think that H2 may be made to work but I just don't see the nuclear pathways.
How about stimulated radioactive decay and fissioning of heavier elements under the influence of H adsorbed onto the surface of the substrate. Here we would expect to see an isotope effect for H in comparison to D due differences in their masses and other attributes, but not a fundamentally different process.
It's been quite convincingly shown that, no matter how swampy and unstable the foundations of a faith are, attempts to convince the faithful that they may be wrong merely serve to reinforce their convictions.
Yes, in some cases, with some faithful people. Other people are faithful but they can be disillusioned. To take an extreme example, most Japanese people lost faith in the Emperor after WWII. They no longer consider him a God, and they do not believe that Japan is racially and morally superior to the rest of the world. But some people still feel that way. Such as cold fusion researcher Y. Arata, and P.M. Abe's wife, who is mixed up with a neo-fascist grade school in Osaka. The government gave the school a lot of public land for a small sum of money. (Abe himself is very conservative and I suspect he is sympathetic to the neo-fascists.)
Display MoreIt seems winds of madness are blowing here.
We know for certain that:
- a plant existed /exists in Doral;
- it was in function state for 352 days continuously;
- technology defined as phenomena of transport, transfer and transformtion of mattter, energy and information have happened there;
- there are opposing opinions here if it worked as reported- more energy out than energy in- however the naysayers cannot show real proofs and come with factoids
- but are accusing their opponents that are as a crazy religious cult. See the Oppressors' 10 commandments , No. 3.
Even more madness is in the NiH-less cold fusion
research program- suicide or killing LENR's future.
PdD is not a complete form of LENR and will be never a technology.
I fear this is an extension of the hatred against Rossi to NiH- and to use mild words- a scientific crime. As killling the Rossi process IF it works is a technological crime.
Forum discussion suffer of specific illnesses as Dilutitis, Disfocusitis, Disputitis, Defrostitis etc.
now we have here Degeneratitis.
peter "it was in function state for 352 days continuously"
I thought that Rossi in his blog said he had taking it off line or at least half or so offline so it was continuous
Peter Gluck unfortunaltey hardly sees the forest for the trees...I thought he still might be an old, but wise scientist. Being a physisist myself (I changed my intial view on AR' technlogy quite some time ago and still hope there will be others to will light the new fire) I cannot understand how Peter can still believe there was a working plant in Doral for 352 days that produced the claimed excess heat...he seems to take all what Rossi says for real.
I give up taking him seriously ...so sad.
How about stimulated radioactive decay and fissioning of heavier elements under the influence of H adsorbed onto the surface of the substrate. Here we would expect to see an isotope effect for H in comparison to D due differences in their masses and other attributes, but not a fundamentally different process.
Are you thinking that the Ni somehow transforms? The Ni nucleus is fairly stable. I don't see much way for the H to overcome the nuclear coulombic forces. Please give your analysis. It seems much easier for D and D to fuse or for D to have a n stripped than for H and Ni nuclei to transform.
In a more peaceful vein
To Jed Rothwell
it is about a ltigation; do you know what proofs, answers has provided Rossi to the Court?
E.g. re Exhibit 5?
And BTW what proofs has provided the IH party?
Who delivered facts and who- only fctoids?
I repeat for the n-th time, why should Penon
answer to a paid technology denigrator- cavil as Murray? He answers at/in/to the Court
peter
We know for certain that:
- a plant existed /exists in Doral;
- it was in function state for 352 days continuously;
- technology defined as phenomena of transport, transfer and transformtion of mattter, energy and information have happened there;
You believe these statements are true. I do not. You should, at least, concede that I and others who disagree with you are sincere. We are not pretending we think Rossi is wrong. We actually do believe that. We gave you the reasons, but you reject them. You should not accuse us of withholding our reasons.
Perhaps you should say "I know for certain . . ." You should leave open the logical possibility that you are wrong despite your certainty, and you should grant that "we" do not all agree with you. In this case, although you are certain, you are mistaken. You are deluded by wishful thinking. (Or, perhaps, I am deluded.)
I don't think the Ni in NiH does anything. And we've seen many people fiddle around with pure Ni and H and not get even a single promising result. I suspect that whenever NiH has worked (e.g., Piantelli) it is because there is something heavier in the system as well. My own hunch is that LENR does not involve fusion of any kind as a first order process.
In my suggestion, H does not overcome Coulombic forces. The electron bound to it screens the Coulomb barrier inside the heavy nucleus, causing it to become unstable against fission or alpha decay, as the Gamow theory of alpha decay suggests it will. (There are also possibilities with regard to surplus electron charge and weak decay pathways.)
(We should probably continue this in another thread; the playground, perhaps?)
The Planet Rossi chapter will be closing in the not-too-distant future and, fortunately, the real work has continued, sadly with no Ni-H in the present experimental mix.
Okay folks, there we have it. IH is here to divert attention to non-commercially-viable LENR.
it is about a ltigation; do you know what proofs, answers has provided Rossi to the Court?
E.g. re Exhibit 5?
Yes, I do know. Rossi uploaded the Penon data, which strongly supports Exhibit 5. Nearly every assertion in Exhibit 5 is shown in Penon's data. So, Rossi gave proof that the Exhibit is correct.
Rossi has not provided any proof or answers showing mistakes in the Exhibit. He has given no reason to doubt it. He did not give any reasons before filing the lawsuit, or after.
And BTW what proofs has provided the IH party?
They do not need to give proof. As I said, Rossi did that for them, in Penon's data. He made their case for them. Also, he did not disprove -- or even dispute -- the other assertions in Exhibit 5, such as the fact that the pipe was DN40. If that were not true, he could easily supply a photo to disprove it. So I am sure it is true. (I have other reasons for thinking that, but Rossi's de facto acquiescence is good evidence.)
Remember that the court threatened sanctions against Rossi for not giving IH the raw data. This happen even when the Federal rules declare that if he doesn't produce them in discovery he will not be able to introduce them at trial if sanctioned. This is very telling. It is Rossi that brought the suit and it is he that must prove his case against IH who should be assumed innocent unless brings proof. Even the digested Final Report that Rossi claims is from Penon may be thrown out if there is no proof that it is indeed from Penon.
And that is just one component of the case. The other major one being- was Doral the GPT or was the Six cylinder run at IH the GPT?
The "die hard" Rossi supporters here will not accept it.
I would venture to guess that the "die hard" IH supporters here would also not accept it were it to be in Rossi's favor.
It's been quite convincingly shown that, no matter how swampy and unstable the foundations of a faith are, attempts to convince the faithful that they may be wrong merely serve to reinforce their convictions.
If you are going to believe this axiom, you must then also accept that its application can apply equally as well in your direction.
A few photos could easily prove all of this.
That would be a good start.
QuoteMore to the point, if all of this were wrong -- if there was a U, for example -- Rossi could have proved this easily. He could have provided a few photos last year before he filed the lawsuit.
And IH could have used their eyes to look. In fact, IH could have used their eyes at the beginning of the test. IH had representatives there every day of the test, we are told. Instead, they let nearly the entire test transpire before sending in an apparent non-expert, who also could have used his eyes.
IHFB What would your reaction be if the court rules IH innocent because the test did not fulfill the legal requirements of the GPT and if it is mute on the heat aspect ? Or if it just summarily dismissed the charges against IH?
I think that the court just might do the first to shorten their work load since without GPT approval, then they could avoid all the rest.
