Rossi and Cures [split]

  • If it was actually possible to use a special catalyst to load ultra-dense hydrogen into non-active materials as I described, the Rossi way (whatever it truly is) might not necessarily be the best. One could use plain foils, or wires, and then, after a large loading of those H(0) clusters is somehow confirmed, attempt to pass an electrical current through them, whether in a controlled manner or by discharging a capacitor bank. Perhaps that would be enough to induce the same reaction that Holmlid observes with a laser.


    Rossi may actually have done this at some point...below is a somwhat strangulated Google translation of an old post by Cures (from the waybackmachine) located for me by the estimable Hank Mills some time ago. Worth pointing out that hot tungsten wires dissociate H2, as will copper, magnesium, and perhaps cobalt/iron. I am hoping to obtain top-class translations of these btw. That is, if the Italian-language originals still exist. There is a lot of material there on triggering etc. The point of interest here is that Cures (who fell out with Rossi over his propensity to leak information) knew a lot about all the systems, and also knew Fiovoranti (yes he is a real and entirely separate persona) and both were present at a test done for the Italian Army (date unknown to me). But apparently it really happened.


    Cures posted....."Copper - Raney nickel cuprate [!], cobalt and iron - the intrinsic pyrophoricity metal powders - problem of contamination of the office by oxygen - voices in the e-Cat takes place a contact between water and active charging - period of hours between start and power - conditioning of charge through cycles of absorption and release of H [but suffice do this once] - temperature-pressure cycle, the "tablet" on range pressurized much more limited - Pordenone observations a) we are operating at 1050C [!, and 350C of the third party? topic proton ceramics and their thermal limits], b) it is like in one hundred meters - count the hundredths of a second [interval "phonon" restricted power? - Instantaneous heating ramps [resistances tungsten] very accentuated] - hydrides that split in the release of the metal surface, particularly manifest with magnesium. For other time thoughts in sull'esafluoruro freedom of lanthanum, the bromine [= smell] and on acids Brønsted / protons. Good night."

  • Alan Smith

    The originals do exist ... but older messages appear to have had their attachments (images and documents) stripped out together with text formatting, so they can be hard to follow.


    The above excerpt seems to be mixing together text from Cures and another user, unless you're suggesting that they're the same person.

    I've been made aware too much time ago that Cures and "Fioravanti" are two different persons, but I couldn't confirm that myself.


    http://cobraf.com/forum/forum/…ea-rossi-20889/?page=1597

  • I find the interaction of heated tungsten with hydrogen interesting for reasons that go beyond dissociation of hydrogen; I wonder whether tungsten can be induced to fission or to decay by way of alpha decay, as it is quite heavy and already has an isotope that is a natural alpha emitter.


    Cures suggested elsewhere that using Tungsten made too many Neutrons, so it was dropped. They also used Constantan at one point- not as a heater but perhaps influenced by Celani as some kind of catalytic element.


    ETA- sorry if they are scrambled - I am just getting what might be called 'rambling cut N' pastes. And Cures and Fiovoranti are definitely 2 real and different people. He is also a real colonel who was seconded to NATO and for reasons one could only imagine is next to impossible to find on the web. Some might take that as proof he is imaginary, but I have had a first-hand account of his reality.

  • but I have had a first-hand account of his reality.

    Did this person who had a front row seat to what would be the most amazing power source ever discovered if it is real simply drop off the planet?


    Or is he working underground now with some other organization? I truly am interested in this topic. If he is doing his own work or moved on to some other

    researcher, I could understand. What I would find hard to understand, if someone who had the understanding that he evidently did, would simply walk away and never return. Heck, I am an extremely marginal player in this drama and I cannot stay away!


    How could someone who had seen first hand, the supposed wonders of the eCat walk away from LENR. It would be similar to Howard Carter who said

    "'Can you see anything?' it was all I could do to get out the words, 'Yes, wonderful things!”


    Thank you.

  • He never walked into it, he was driver and gopher for the science crew not once but quite a few times. Not a technician himself, or even a scientist. However, a highly literate, intelligent and acute observer of human nature and totally honest and straightforward in every aspect of his life - and a long-time good friend of mine - a friendship pre-dating him brushing up against Rossi.

  • Rossi may actually have done this at some point...below is a somwhat strangulated Google translation of an old post by Cures (from the waybackmachine) located for me by the estimable Hank Mills some time ago. Worth pointing out that hot tungsten wires dissociate H2, as will copper, magnesium, and perhaps cobalt/iron. I am hoping to obtain top-class translations of these btw.


    To clarify, what I actually I meant here is that potentially one could render an otherwise inert metal active in a dedicated reactor and then "ignite" it in a different one. A Rossi analogue could be for example him using specially loaded Ni powder for a demonstration, with the loading step not shown or omitted.


    Overall this concept would not be far different than what Holmlid has already proposed in his lapsed patent application (he stopped paying the fees), where the production of ultra-dense hydrogen (only deuterium at the time) occurs in a different place than where it's ignited with a laser.


    If this ignition occurs inside a material and not the surface perhaps it might be expected to see different outcomes than what Holmlid normally does.


    Cures suggested elsewhere that using Tungsten made too many Neutrons, so it was dropped. They also used Constantan at one point- not as a heater but perhaps influenced by Celani as some kind of catalytic element.


    But I think these solutions may have still been intended to provide both production+ignition environments at the same time as in most LENR experiments.

  • And Cures and Fiovoranti are definitely 2 real and different people

    Not a technician himself, or even a scientist. However, a highly literate, intelligent and acute observer of human nature and totally honest and straightforward in every aspect of his life - and a long-time good friend of mine - a friendship pre-dating him brushing up against Rossi.


    Alan,


    If what you are saying is the truth, then this Fioravanti, who you now claim is not Cures....although Rossi himself, and ECW have linked them together as one and the same for the past 3 years, was used by Rossi for the 28 Oct 2011 Military Customer Acceptance test. Yet your "friend" Fioravanti, did not utter a peep in outrage? Hmmm. And he is "honest and straightforward" you say? That test was definitely staged. Even Rossi admitted much later, after much lying before, that it (1MW) never went anywhere....so it was all an elaborate hoax.


    So, you might want to ask your friend why he allowed Rossi to use him, and never said a word about it publicly. Sorry, I am having a hard time believing what you said.

  • Shane. For the record. Fiovoranti was not 'my friend'' nor was he gophering for the science crew. Another person altogether was doing that- who is a friend of mine. I have never met Fiovoranti, emailed him or spoken to him or Cures. As for 'if what you are saying is the truth' - why would it not be? What would I possibly have to gain by lying about this?

  • Alan,


    OK then, Fioravanti is not your friend, and you got this second hand from "another person altogether", that happens to be your friend, yet this friend of yours told you Fioaravanti "was not gophering for the science"...whatever that means, and this means what?


    And no, I did not mean to imply that you did not tell the truth, but that what you were told may not be accurate.

    • Andrea Rossi July 24, 2011 at 4:59 AM

      Dear CURES (Prof. Fioravanti):


      Very good suggestions, thank you very, very much.


      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    .........................

    • Cures September 15, 2011 at 9:19 AM

      Caro Andrea

      non riesco a spedirti posta all’indirizzo [email protected]

      Mi viene respinta con la dicitura -impossibile inviare il messaggio-

      La mia posta sembra funzioni. Hai problemi con la tua?

      Domenico

  • Shane - are you kidding me? There are three characters in this scene. Cures, Fiovoranti, and my particular old friend who was fetching coffee and driving for the science crew. As well as that he is a very skilled linguist and translator. That's three, not two , not one. Three. ETA - 'gophering' = Vernacular, going fer this, going fer that. An assistant who fetches and carries.


    Paradigmnoia - Your the little post above is Rossi 'fake news' for sure. He has been known to do this kind of thing.

  • Alan Smith ,

    Fake news?

    Cures and Fioravanti have been tangled since the posts above.

    Before signing his name Domenico Fioravanti in Bologna on Oct 28, 2011 (colonel crossed out).

    Before the "Penon" (cover paged) report "leak" where he was subsequently outed by Rossi and in the same message Unibo was outed by Rossi for good measure.

  • Well, they were friendly. It was AFAIK Cures who introduced DF to the Rossi group and it was Fiovoranti who initiated (but was unable to carry on with) the 'army test'. Which is something I know nothing about. But there is no way they are the same person.

  • At the time I was monitoring the changes of the "all comments" page from the rossilivecat blog (which used to be publicly linked) and I remember that at some point that bit got added and that I found rather strange that such an old comment would be edited that way. Perhaps I may be remembering something else, or I could be wrong on the exact moment this happened. As I mentioned I can't prove it; snapshots from archive.org are too sparse and I didn't save screenshots or took notes about it. It may as well be that it got first deleted, then added again.


    Either way, it's way off-topic here. If this discussion including previous comments on the subject could be moved on a separate thread - perhaps in the "Rumors" or "Rossi and IH" section, that would be great.

  • Thanks for splitting the thread. I'm open for translation requests of selected excerpts from Cures' comments.


    AlainCo I think the "and ultra-dense hydrogen" part in the title can be safely removed; more detailed discussions about that can go in the Holmlid thread.

  • There have been so many lies from the Rossi camp...some understandable, such as protecting ones identity (Cures), that it is hard to piece this together. Alan, I certainly believe you are honestly telling us what you were told. Para, I and Can have likewise honestly reported Rossisays that seem to contradict that. I would say that no one here is right, or wrong... so we all deserve a like. :)


    Also, based on Paradigmnoia's finding that Penon picture, I do believe now that Penon is NOT the Nato Colonel, Domenico Fioravanti. That means that when Rossi was quoted saying that Fioravanti was "directing", "involved with", and "would sign off on the (first Hotcat) report", it was another Rossiays...as it was Penon, not DF who later signed off on it. That was the last we ever saw or heard from DF, but a year later Cures popped back up briefly on Cobraf.


    One can not help but repeat Bob's reasonable question as to how...if these people are professionally legit, with integrity, know of this great discovery that could change the world almost overnight, yet could "just walk away from it"? Not a peep out of either of them (assuming they are not one and the same) for 3 1/2 years now. I could not keep my mouth shut, if I *trusted* it to be real, and that I had not been lied to..could you?


    And this Italian Army thing reminds me of a Lewan comment along those lines, when the IH lawsuit broke, that he had it on good information -he could not divulge the source of course, ;) that "the military" had possession of an Ecat, or 1MW (forget which). Trust me, if the military had a working overunity device for the past 5 years, we would all know about it by now. In fact, that was Walker's (not Eric) "October surprise" scenario for two US President election cycles running, and it never came.

  • Para,


    Yes, thanks. There was an Italian Military exclusionary clause in the original Rossi/IH agreement , and I wondered about it since my first reading. Could be something Rossisaid to IH to impress them at the time. Rossi has always been enamored of the military, and often "name drops" them for attention, and authenticity. The conspiracy guys just suck it up...Marks do too I would guess. When Rossi is long gone from the scene, or in his jail cell, he will be a legend nonetheless just because of all these military this, military that, hints he has dropped the past 6 years. Even with the QuarkX, he has mentioned some military engineer that flew in from the west coast I believe, who helped him overcome some engineering hurdles.


    I think it highly unlikely the Italian Military has their hands on a working 1MW. If they have anything at all, it did not work, they got suckered too, are too embarrassed to admit it, and the thing is probably rusting on a back lot at some obscure base somewhere. They probably salvaged some parts like the 40mm plumbing, and that Ni62 probably fetched some good money. :)

  • Those comments come from a collection made and uploaded long time ago by a different user.

    Funnily enough I was recently looking for that document but couldn't find it anywhere in my drives, so I have to thank Lo Spinoso too!


    EDIT: it looks like it was in one of my old dropbox accounts

    http://i.imgur.com/p8Xq1TD.png