Caveat Emptor (LENR investors beware)

  • @shane d your warning is redundant due to at least two reasons: you are not licensed investment specialist suggesting this investment and ICO in general is 0 security.

    I wish these guys good luck raising enough funds to continue research.

    It is actually a shame nobody is funding crazy nonsense research like this just for the slight chance being successful while burning billions on ITER.

    Would be nice to have a research program where people like ST , Nanospire, you name it, can join for year or two tenure and be given tools to do their crazy stuff. That would cost roughly one cruise missle per team per year to run.


    Instead priority is given to pencil pushing mathematicians aka physicists who more interest in producing catchy headlines in the news like recent 'Scientists calculated that universe should not exists'.

    And people in this forum keep on bashing poor exeprimenters who are indeed true phycisist.

  • I hear you Max. I have the innocent side of me that tells me to trust, and the other that has been burned before with Rossi, that tells me to be cautious. I wish Synthestech the best, and in that same spirit, caution potential investors to be careful and do their due diligence. Anything wrong with that message?

  • Shane D. The wrong part is that you get burned before instead if preparing for a long run. The experimental science which is in my opinion is real physics is never a one shot thing. Sometimes very expensive trial and errors process. If you look and pharma industry it is widely accepted approach. I don't see why we can't extend it to fundamental physics.

  • The experimental science which is in my opinion is real physics is never a one shot thing. Sometimes very expensive trial and errors process. If you look and pharma industry it is widely accepted approach. I don't see why we can't extend it to fundamental physics.


    Max,


    Sure, none of us has a problem with being open to fundamental physics, but once they cross over to commercialization, and solicit funding...well, that is where the "buyer beware" comes in. For good reason too, as many have been ripped off from those piggy backing on honest "fundamental" research. Rossi being the most obvious example here.


    Synthestech may be on to something, yet there are some troubling signs. Surely they understand this, and it is therefore their duty to prove their merit, and honesty beyond doubt. A good step in that direction would for them to stop referencing Rossi in support of their technology. Another would be for them to refrain from saying they have made this great breakthrough, but can not say what it is because it is a secret.

  • Shane D. It is actually a tragedy for researchers as ST is that being a fringe science they have to leap from raw discovery straight to the commercial stage.

    People in LIGO or CERN have a luxury to continue on with funding and don't bother about commercialization.

    Just imagine we demand a demo kit everyone can buy and run to confirm the results from the guys who proved gravitational waves and Higgs boson.


    The issue of lenr and any other hot topics on alternative energy has never been technical or scientific but pure social engineering.

    Think why scientists from schools like MIT releasing almost sci-fi press releases aimed at general publicly like we had metallic hydrogen and observed it but then our microscopic diamond vice crushed and we lost it. It sounds like biblical story to me. And that is what one have the be really cautious for because we all are already paying for this.

  • ICO is an innovative but risky way to fund, with many failures, scam, and success...

    Due diligence is required, and I did not do it myself.

    Being initially prudent does not prevent you to be finally convinced by informations.

    Sure if I have a plan to fund LENR research seriously, it would include an ICO, and why not a specific ecosystem blockchain.


    As I repeat, we only need 25Mn$ and serious project manager, to get "the explanation".

  • Quote

    Would be nice to have a research program where people like ST , Nanospire,

    Nanospire, really? Have you examined the claims and backgrounds of the proprietors/promoters of this enterprise? They appear to be a variant of Rossi-ism.


    Or perhaps you cater to crappola like this:

    Quote

    LeClaire wrote:

    The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.

    WoooooHoooooo!

    http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html (as cited earlier by Eric Walker)


    How about drawing a line of lunacy you are unwilling to cross? Or are all degrees of nutiness ok?

  • maryyugo i liked the way Neil Tyson's answer to Bill Mayer's inability to imagine universe the size of pin head before big bang. He said that for the universe to exists it is not important for all to understand it.

    Likewise Nanospire can exist and advance their business reagrdleass of how many MYs trian their enlarges scam detectors on them. You see there are people around here who absolutely don't have hyper sensitive scam detectors which allows them to live full happy life and not eventually require an attention of a shrink. Companies like Great Lake Graphite which licensed Nanospire tech.

  • It's one thing to keep an open mind to new possibilities that for whatever reason the physics establishment is not in a position to consider objectively. It's another to fail to recognize Spock-speak. Here is a paper that I generated from a site on the topic of computer science:


    Quote

    Many systems engineers would agree that, had it not been for sensor networks, the construction of massive multiplayer online role-playing games might never have occurred. After years of unproven research into IPv4, we show the construction of cache coherence, which embodies the extensive principles of parallel trainable e-voting technology. We motivate an application for forward-error correction, which we call Movie.


    https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/


    (I'll upload a newly generated paper since the original was deleted on their server.)

  • Quote

    . You see there are people around here who absolutely don't have hyper sensitive scam detectors which allows them to live full happy life and not eventually require an attention of a shrink. Companies like Great Lake Graphite which licensed Nanospire tech.

    Sure, because Defkalion was such a success for its open minded Greek investors and of course Andrea Rossi has been so good to IH and Darden. By all means, let's keep an open mind to Defkalion and Rossi type universes.

  • Quote

    a bit of money changed hands while everyone had fun why should you be concerned?

    You're not concerned that $11.5 million went to a crook and another $5 million went to lawyers? Apparently, you have no social conscience. I'd rather see that money spent on health research and, because realistically it wouldn't be, how about spending it on REAL work in LENR instead of condos for a documented criminal? You really think Darden, Woodford and their investors "had fun" being forced to defend against Rossi's moronic but time-consuming lawsuit? What universe do you inhabit? You've never been involved in a lawsuit obviously. Are you a teenager? For whom everything is like a video game?

  • maryyugo if you want to take taking of money of poorly run businesses and clueless wanna be investors so socially responsibly you will succumb to the weight of it. It is too big of a cross to bear. We don't need a second JC but thank you nevertheless.

    I only care about public money a bit.

  • Why every thread in this forum eventually slides into Rossi discussion? These Russian guys may not even know about him. However I am not going to exclude the possibility that Rossi served as an inspiration for them as he did for the majority of lenr researchers in Russia.

    The problem could be in the extent of the damage to some people like maryyugo as admitted The only solution to that is either to rename lenr-forum to Rossiisascam / ihaterossi.com or the damaged go to some sort of a rehab and stop polluting threads with irrelevant grief about Rossi.

  • Shane D. Then he could be an inspiration for them. Still doesn't make them scammers and justifies littering thread with statements repeated 100 times already.

    BTW aren't these guys first lenrish researchers who use ICO.

    Let's concentrate on the the bright side. I am choking of my own pessimism already but I am reluctant to share one since it is a poison.

  • Max,


    It is a fine line we walk between being open to new ideas, and being so naive as to invite any scammer in to take advantage of our hopes and dreams. I think that old Russian proverb of "trust but verify" applies. We shall see if Synthestech can provide some verification soon.

  • Shane D. Would you agree that it takes a certain personality to be able to invent something? Why don't we try instead of upfront demands of a proof try to provide a supportive environment and see how that goes without being afraid to be taken advantage.

    It takes enormous strength to do research and respond to constant repeatable and blunt demands for a proof. It is always that you have to give something first before you can demand anything back.

  • Shane D. Would you agree that it takes a certain personality to be able to invent something? Why don't we try instead of upfront demands of a proof try to provide a supportive environment and see how that goes without being afraid to be taken advantage.

    It takes enormous strength to do research and respond to constant repeatable and blunt demands for a proof. It is always that you have to give something first before you can demand anything back.


    Max,


    I think overall everyone here is very good at nurturing new ideas, and understanding the difficulties inventors promoting those ideas encounter. If you go back and read the past comments about Synthestech, I do not think you can find any "demands of a proof", so much as those like Alain, AS, me, and even yourself recommending caution. Here is what you said after I noted that they wrote a self promotional article about themselves disguised as journalism:


    " Yes, it looks a lot as as a self promotion. For this reason you never judge Russian by what they declare. Follow their real actions instead."


    That is all that I am saying also...follow their actions, and ignore their hype. After reading Parkomov's latest report on ECW released today, it appears transmutations are the new hot button in LENR. Rossi kicked it off in 2011 with his Ni-Cu, followed by Lugano with their Ni58-Ni62. MFMP is onto it now also with their 356/Suhas and Egely's "Nova rector" analysis. NASA's recent Arxiv report, and USPTO application are probably the most detailed description of transmutations of all.


    So Synthestech's touting their own biological transmutation process, is not too far off from what others seem to be reporting with non-organics. What we need to know is; do they really have something, or, are they capitalizing on the latest LENR craze to make a quick buck?

  • Welcome Roman.


    Are you planning to publish much detail about your work? You know the saying 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof'. Also, have you had much (or any) contact with Vladimir Vyssotski, who has been working in this field for many years?

  • Welcome Roman.


    Are you planning to publish much detail about your work? You know the saying 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof'. Also, have you had much (or any) contact with Vladimir Vyssotski, who has been working in this field for many years?


    Thank you Alan,

    We are preparing details, There will be some experimental data in our White Paper, but we are focused mostly on model of commercial cooperation with investors.

    I don’t think that our claims are extraordinary, there are many researchers who observed transmutation. The only difference is that we were focused on obtaining valuable element in our experiments, while others tried to measure excess energy, radiation etc. This goal is very tightly bounded with analytical chemistry.

    Our know-hows are all about quantity of obtained transmutated elements and engineering solutions.

    I'd like to emphasize that, we are conducting ICO in order to continue research and transform phenomena observed in our experiment into technology.

    We believe, that transmutation of elements is key to commercialization of LENR.


    We dont have any contacts with Vladimir Vyssotski, but plenty of contacts with other researchers. We consider microbiological way unpromising.