ICCF21 Thread

  • Thank you Can for transcribing. Storms has extensive knowledge of LENR. He has been investigating it for 29 years, both by himself and with others. I would say that if he thinks this "rather strange characteristic" is "truly unusual, very novel, and no doubt reveals something very very important about the nuclear reaction" then others in the field should take notice. Perhaps they have?


    Also, reports of "strange radiation" seem to be popping up everywhere lately, and I could not help but wonder if there is a link? Too bad mainstream science is not involved, as it may take their involvement to piece all these seemingly unrelated, strange and unusual effects together...whether what they discover turns out to be an unusual anomaly, or LENR. They *are* seeing something, that is for sure.


    It is a hell of a mystery this LENR, so it is understandable why those in the field like Storms call it an addiction.

    Shane D, it's always a real pleasure to read your comments.

    I decided to not go to ICCF 21 becausen for myself, always the same circus made by mostly self-satisfied retirees.. ( no more than few XH since long long years)

    The good point was : Money saved for own experiments.

    The bad : I lost opportunity to meet people like Ed Storms.

    During an older event in France a friend shared his paper/work where it was well explained how a palladium test sample deforms anisotropically in relation to its length and width, helped too by famous alpha and beta phases.

    Therefore, Jacques Ruer shared a paper at ICCF 21 where he proposed tangible scenarios to explain that events listed as LENR would not be in fact.

    I remember for example P&F sample that melted/crossed the table.

    I understand palladium remains expensive therefore why Ed didn't test some sample with large geometric differences to try to increase its XH ?

    I would have liked to ask him this question ..


    David Fojt


  • Courtesy of Ruby's CFN. Nothing new in this from Dr. Swartz I have not heard from him before, but still a good listen IMO. He has always been a force in LENR. Been "right there" for many years, just ready to introduce either a lab kit, a product, or "close the loop", but still trying. Reminds me of Piantelli.

  • Quote

    Been "right there" for many years, just ready to introduce either a lab kit, a product, or "close the loop", but still trying. Reminds me of Piantelli.


    Always ready but never delivering an incontrovertibly working model with enough excess power to self run, etc. etc.


    Reminds me of most all LENR experimenters.

  • Always ready but never delivering an incontrovertibly working model with enough excess power to self run, etc. etc.


    Reminds me of most all LENR experimenters.


    Ah, Mr. Negativity. Actually, if you listen to Swartz he has been absolutely confident since a week before Mallove was murdered, that he has overunity. He even asked Popular Science (Mechanics?) to write something about what he had achieved, but nothing ever came of it. I always thought one of the better LENR demonstrations was when he ran two Sterling engines; the live one with LENR fuel, and the dummy set up exactly like the live but no fuel. The Sterling ran on the LENR, while the dummy stood still. There is a video of it, but too lazy to look it up.


    It also sounds to me that he thinks he has enough overunity to theoretically close the loop. Every time he tries though, the circuitry eats too much of the excess.


    But like I said, real disappointing that he has not been able to take it to the next step. If he or Piantell would do that, it may tempt the universities to get back involved. He may have DTRA funding, or maybe he mean't someone else does (Forsley/Mossier-Boss do)? If so, that may be what it takes..money and some help.

  • I have listened to the Storms, McKubre, Forsley, Biberian, Mosier-Boss, Norman Cook, Swartz, Hagelstein, Miley, Tanzella, Letts audios, and a couple other speakers whose English was hard to follow. I can not say anything really sticks out as earth shattering.


    I was mainly focused on hearing those tidbits related to commercialization of either a consumer product, or lab kit to send to the Universities. Swartz seems close, but he was also close 18 years ago...in other words, nothing new. Miley says he could probably cobble together a 30 or 50W unit using grams of fuel, but he did not sound too enthusiastic about it.


    IMO, GEC appears closest to having something, but Forsley, or Mosier-Boss, did not reveal anything on the commercial side we did not already know. Basically they talked about their patent submitted in 2007, and approved in 2013. Little about their joint NASA venture. Good stuff though, in that what they said confirmed many aspects of the SPAWAR JWK LENR and the claims made by Global Energy Corporation (GEC) thread.


    One of those I most wanted to hear from was the Safire reps, yet I see no audio from them on CFN. Did they do a presentation, and if so what did they say? BG over on ECW says they listened to him during breaks, but were tight lipped in return when he tried to compare notes. Their lead spokesman Childs is set to speak http://www.electricuniverseuk.com/events.html#os so maybe we will get a report from what he says there later on.


    Which brings me to what sticks out most to me, and that was McKubre and his lecture against secrecy in the field. He claims "everyone one of you is concealing something". I am but a person on a forum, but if my opinion means anything, I would have to agree with him. We see so many of our own examples right here, and on ECW with me356, Suhas, Lion, and ahem. Other examples go back to the earliest days of CF when someone, or some group, thinks they have figured it out, smell money, and go dark. They had their Eneco back then, formed to capitalize on the advances, and we have our IH today doing the same.


    Nothing wrong with secrets, and making money BTW, but unfortunately it never seems to come to anything other than the few *pieces* of the puzzle they really had, get buried alongside them. As McKubre mentions; we consume tremendous amounts of resources rediscovering that same piece of the puzzle they took to the grave. Well, he did not quite say it that way, but close. :)


    Frustrating, and one can not help but wonder if the field is it's own worse enemy, as many of the old guard have said before? Nonetheless, my hat is off to Storms, Biberian, the Japanese, and MFMP who are committed to open science first, and profit second.

  • Frustrating, and one can not help but wonder if the field is it's own worse enemy, as many of the old guard have said before? Nonetheless, my hat is off to Storms, Biberian, the Japanese, and MFMP who are committed to open science first, and profit second.


    Thanks for the recap.

    Did Storms mainly discuss theory? Did he seem to indicate any significant advance? All the "johnny come lately" plasma talk would kind of throw his "small crack" environment theory out the window.... or possibly they are two different phenomena..... or possibly the plasma stuff is simply a light show. I have to believe Rossi's is anyway.


    Did Cook mention Rossi or any of their collaborations? Strange if Rossi has working stuff yet as with almost everyone (except AA and AS) they jump ship on him. Odd is it not that Rossi does not mention Cook anymore. Do any of the handful of believers here have any logical reason why? :S

  • Bob,


    Storms, and Miley still taking about cracks, or NAE's. If anything about plasma's, I missed it.


    Cook did not mention Rossi thank goodness. He was all theory, and dense to me. After that I stayed away from the theory guys..except for Hagelstein. And the only reason I listened to him, is that he is doing his own experiments now. A while back, Dewey mentioned Cook turning his back on Rossi, I believe. Rossi mentioned something on JONP indicating that to be the case also. That is why he has this young Swede working with him now.

  • DW: ... "the rejuvenation of this hunt may just prove to be worth it in the long run (perhaps for us, and/or our children, and / or our children's children). ..."

    >>> Too much children


    SD: ... "I can not say anything really sticks out as earth shattering."

    >>> Flatline

  • I believe. Rossi mentioned something on JONP indicating that to be the case also

    Hmmm. that would be interesting. I do not read JONP, but I will have to see if I can find the post. It would be rare (I do not remember other cases) of where Rossi stated someone walked away as such. He talked snakes and clowns, evil corporations etc. But usually when a seemingly legit entity was on the scene and then disappeared, Rossi simply did not mention them anymore or he vilified them as "snakes". Such as the NATO colonel, the various "aerospace engineers" that have "collaborated" with him over the years. All disappeared never to be mentioned again. The many customers of which he sold numerous (13 units) of 1MW plants to. They seem to simply dissolve into the fog of memory, no word nor reason. The believers are content to never bring them up as they know it would mean excommunication from the church. Whether it be JONP or ECW. (As the recent episode with Mr. Russ showed)


    Oh well. I think it clear that the court depositions exposed Rossi to the core. Perhaps one of these days the court of irrefutable facts will show his true colors as well. "F8 or F9" ! 8o

  • Shane D, congratulations to dare to say things, the true reality of things.

    A lot of excitement before each ICCF, many disillusions a few weeks later.

    Three quarters about lenr's papers are related to Pd / D cells, for example.

    What an originality !

    The recent "japanese" works which had XH, by Ni/Pd particle way, are only replications of things already done for 10 years now.

    Following this observation, we understand that Lenr problem should not money necessarily but rather inspiration.

    The old guard is overwhelmed because they realize that recipe wasn't written in their old school books.

    So called secrecy in Lenr field both with so called lake of money well helps to hide failures.

    I don't know whether to feel frustrated as you seem to be, but rather angry.

    Why ?

    Because many newcomers refer to old ones work , therefore at the end not a lot to keep, if you consider low levels of results.

    Probably better to put eyes on a blank sheet.

    DF

  • Cydonia,


    That is just my opinion judging from the audios I listened too. Others may find them much more encouraging. If so, we would like to hear from them. Also, as Jed says, the presentation slides will reveal more, and hopefully show more to be excited about.


    Maybe there was nothing earth shattering IMO, but that does not diminish the importance of someone new to the field such as Beiting replicating Arata. Or someone like Letts/Higgins, and the IH team getting some good solid wattage. Or GEC working with NASA, and as you said, the Japanese replicating others works from the past 10 years. Those are all important, and good signs the field will be around long enough to eventually piece everything together.


    If you want to call me frustrated, it is because there looks to be nothing close to commercial value yet. It is a different arm of LENR, where the rules, and transparency change. Frustratingly so. Understandable maybe, when you get into funding, IP, and making a $, but all seem to follow the same dead end pattern, where their secrets, and IP follow them to the grave. Maybe this time will be different. Russ and Alan are trying their best to make it so. :) We shall see,

  • At ICCF-21 I had the opportunity to chat with Peter Hagelstein, where the Lipinski patent came up. He indicated that he had only looked at the Google version. I suggested it might be useful to look over the original WIPO application of 2014. I mentioned that it did not seem to be available at all. This is a bit of a shame, since that 100+ page document had a depth and abundance of revealing details. The key, in my experience, to reading that original was ignoring or skimming the first ~19 pp of theory. The results reported and the Q values become ever more impressive the deeper into their application one reads.


    Perhaps Jed or someone else with foresight managed to archive that original WIPO application "as it was". My own document handling skills unfortunately failed to save it in a survivable original form. All the old links I now find here are "404" dead.