ICCF21 Thread

  • perhaps somone who was there can enlighten

    I viewed Miles' talk more of a historical background talk instead of a "how to make heat" talk. He spent some time talking about China Lake and the "politics" of the situation. It was about work done some time ago.


    I do know that several are now working on getting material made (Pd B) and that they want to get it into hands of people to try using it. Also McKubre should be giving a talk at the up coming Italy meeting on the role of B.

  • This material is highly unsatisfactory. Perhaps I am missing some context that all at ICCF21 would have, but here is why I say this:


    (1) The presentation is about excess power measurements

    (2) The precise amount of excess power is headlined and discussed as though it indicates something important about the system

    You might want to wait for the paper. Or you can contact Miles and tell him what you think before he writes the paper. He is prompt, unlike most researchers, so he will be writing it soon.

  • Well if there is to be a paper I will indeed wait for that.


    I can understand that if you accept all the excess heat results as (effectively) necessarily due to a new phenomenon, and know that significant error is very highly unlikely, a talk like that is appropriate, though the lack of a little extra detail is still unfortunate. But few people outside the LENR community would be in that position..

  • Ruby Carat on Cold Fusion Now publishes presentations of ICCF21, to be completed with time.


    See thosepages with summaries, photographies, and already some audio

    I imagine Thusrday, Friday will come soon.


    all days are listed here

    http://coldfusionnow.org/interviews/iccf21/

  • Ruby Carat on Cold Fusion Now publishes presentations of ICCF21, to be completed with time.


    See thosepages with summaries, photographies, and already some audio

    I imagine Wenesday, Thusrday, Friday will come soon.


    Is there a link to the associated slides available yet?

  • Cold Fusion:Physics/Applications/Measurement -Jean Paul Biberian cryofusion.org - leading physics professor international cold fusion researcher- International conference presentation: http://www.fractalfield.com/2018 latest cold fusion physics- updates, measurements, commercialization- As professsor Jean Paul notes- near the end- he has also considerable expertise in Biological Transmutations. Film courtesy conference co-host Roger Green breakthrough-technologies.com


  • Finished reading Ruby Carat's Thursday recap, and listened to some of Robert Elleson's audio of the presentations. Thank you both for chronicling this for future generations! Good things are happening in LENR land. The field seems to be zeroing in on how best to trigger. Reporting neutrons, gammas, and XH...much of it correlated.


    Not sure that renaming LENR to QUeen (Quantum Effect ENergy), is a good idea though. :)

  • Cold Fusion:Physics/Applications/Measurement -Jean Paul Biberian cryofusion.org - leading physics professor international cold fusion researcher- International conference presentation: http://www.fractalfield.com/2018 latest cold fusion physics- updates, measurements, commercialization- As professsor Jean Paul notes- near the end- he has also considerable expertise in Biological Transmutations. Film courtesy conference co-host Roger Green breakthrough-technologies.com



    Rends,


    Co-host Roger Green of "Breakthru-Technologies" http://www.breakthru-technologies.com/ ....

    was/is? one of Rossi's licensees. I see he is still advertising "Ecat Australia", and the Ecat technology on his Breakthru-Tech website. Interesting he is still in the picture. Looks like he has branched off in new directions also.

  • I highly recommend taking the 30 minutes to listen to Dr. Storms Friday presentation from Ruby's website. Interesting account of the early years post FP's, and how they first detected Tritium. What then caused them to go underground, right under the noses of the "bureaucrats" at Los Alamos Labs.


    More importantly, and fascinating, is what he has to say about the science. His being given some very active Pd by Takahashi, which reminded me of the JM Type A story. How even samples from the same batch can be morphologically different, affecting the XH gain. And how the Pd grows in volume (shortens, but widens) with loading, and how that relates to the robustness of the XH.


    Of particular note, starting at 30:00, he talks about seeing low energy photons, and energetic deuterons, but then talks about something of "strange characteristics" he has never seen. He thinks it is very important, and said he has been "loath to publish", but asked the audience to study it, and that he was open to whatever explanation they could think of. In his opinion, this strange radiation could "reveal something very unusual, and important" about the type of nuclear reaction taking place on the surface material.

  • How even samples from the same batch can be morphologically different, affecting the XH gain. And how the Pd grows in volume (shortens, but widens) with loading, and how that relates to the robustness of the XH.

    It took him about a year to test the Tanaka Precious Metals samples. There were just over 90 samples, as I recall, and he found 3 or 4 that met his requirements. They all produced excess heat. Samples that did not meet the requirements did not produce heat. The requirements and test procedures used to sort the cathodes out are described here:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEhowtoprodu.pdf


    It takes a long time to do these procedures manually. About a year, as I said. I believe machines could be devised to speed up the process for laboratory experiments. For commercial production, you would want to manufacture cathodes that fit the requirements in the first place, rather than collecting hundreds of cathodes and winnowing out a few that will work.


    The people at the ENEA also did extensive materials research and characterized cathodes that will work.

  • [...] Of particular note, starting at 30:00, he talks about seeing low energy photons, and energetic deuterons, but then talks about something of "strange characteristics" he has never seen. He thinks it is very important, and said he has been "loath to publish", but asked the audience to study it, and that he was open to whatever explanation they could think of. In his opinion, this strange radiation could "reveal something very unusual, and important" about the type of nuclear reaction taking place on the surface material.


    I took the time to transcribe that part, but I couldn't properly understand a few words.


    * * * * *


    [25:56] Brian Scanlan then supported me. Brian is a very interesting [?] guy. He made his money and software, but he always wanted to be a physicist. And now that he had the money he could become a physicist so he created a laboratory in the basement of his pool house, it's the only pool house in Greenwich, Connecticut. It's the guy's cold fusion laboratory, actually. Very, very strange. But anyway we worked together very nicely; he had a theory on how this can work and so we worked on that, but one of the experiments we did and he funded was exploring the gas discharge, looking for radiation produced by the discharge. And that was truly extraordinary. And you can see the discharge is here, that's the anode and the cathode; within this shroud of aluminum oxide, and so the discharge takes place right in there. And there whatever ions are produced or whatever ions are injected they are detected by both a Geiger counter and [..?] detector. So I could determine the energy and the characteristics.


    [27:25] And that was done because I had the ability to impose various absorbers between the detector and the source and the way of which those absorbers changed the energy and the intensity can reveal the nature of the radiation. The nature of the radiation turned out to be absolutely extraordinary. First of all, we did see photons. Fairly low energy, but not strong enough to get out of the apparatus. But we also saw this behavior, this was verified as energetic deuterons and they come off in... this is the spectrum of energy process intensity, and the ones that had the least intensity—the least energy—have the maximum intensity. And you can see it drops down... these things are very very energetic, we're talking about MeV, these can only be made [?] out of a nuclear reaction.


    [28:25] So, these are coming out of some kind of nuclear reaction that is taking place on the surface, but they're coming out with this rather strange characteristic. I could never make sense of it. So, I was loathe to publish it very widely, but maybe some of you have the imagination to figure out what this means, I'll be happy to share the information with you if you can do that, because this is truly unusual, very novel and no doubt reveals something very very important about the nuclear reaction. Well, Brian and I then set about trying to reproduce the Rossi flavor [?]. And we came to the conclusion that Rossi does not use nickel. We tried exploring all kinds of nickel, including the one that he claimed to use, and none of them produced anything, in fact there was no evidence that they could produce anything.


    [29:29] What I believe is that Rossi actually used a commercial catalyst, because he was trying to initiate a reaction between gases to make a liquid fuel. You would not have used solid nickel for that purpose. You would have used a nickel-clad catalyst. So I went to the literature and looked about the kind of catalyst that you would apply for that particular reaction, and that's known, and I tried to order some and then saw [..?]. Now, that's maybe coincidental or maybe I just simply bought out all the available catalyst, so it's not available to anybody else. Anyway, Rossi is a strange phenomena, but you have to be incredibly careful in believing and analyzing what he says, because some of it is true and some of it is not true.

  • [28:25] ... Well, Brian andI then set about trying to reproduce the Rossi flavor [?]. And we came to theconclusion that Rossi does not use nickel. We tried exploring all kinds ofnickel, including the one that he claimed to use, and none of them producedanything, in fact there was no evidence that they could produce anything.


    Wrong conclusion. They didn't use the right nickel, in the proper alloy and correct configuration. They should have tried this one:

    http://www.rotfil.com/public/downloads/PDF-CAR-017-E.pdf


    The nickel chrome wire wrapped around a magnesium oxide core is situated in the peripheral position, with a very thin compressed insulating layer between wire and sheath. This allows efficacious heat exchange, thus maintaining the temperature of the resistance wire at a much lower level compared to other heating elements were the wire is situated in the center.


    Credits:

    http://blog.newenergytimes.com…si-device-2/#comment-1569


    Steven B. Krivit says:

    August 2, 2011 at 00:17

    Received via e-mail:

    ...

    And the cartridge heater has also been identified. It’s a Rotfil S21, 16mm diameter. Photo is on page 1 and details on page 24.
    http://www.rotfil.com/public/downloads/PDF-CAR-017-E.pdf

    ...

    Cheers
    Malcolm Lear


    Position of the cartridge:


    Usage: turn on the switch. Wait until the coolant reach the boiling temperature. Find one or more professors who publicly state that the escaping steam is dry.

  • So, these are coming out of some kindof nuclear reaction that is taking place on the surface, but they're coming outwith this rather strange characteristic. I could never make sense of it. So, Iwas loathe to publish it very widely, but maybe some of you have theimagination to figure out what this means, I'll be happy to share theinformation with you if you can do that, because this is truly unusual, verynovel and no doubt reveals something very very important about the nuclearreaction.


    Thank you Can for transcribing. Storms has extensive knowledge of LENR. He has been investigating it for 29 years, both by himself and with others. I would say that if he thinks this "rather strange characteristic" is "truly unusual, very novel, and no doubt reveals something very very important about the nuclear reaction" then others in the field should take notice. Perhaps they have?


    Also, reports of "strange radiation" seem to be popping up everywhere lately, and I could not help but wonder if there is a link? Too bad mainstream science is not involved, as it may take their involvement to piece all these seemingly unrelated, strange and unusual effects together...whether what they discover turns out to be an unusual anomaly, or LENR. They *are* seeing something, that is for sure.


    It is a hell of a mystery this LENR, so it is understandable why those in the field like Storms call it an addiction.

  • Thank you Can for transcribing. Storms has extensive knowledge of LENR. He has been investigating it for 29 years, both by himself and with others. I would say that if he thinks this "rather strange characteristic" is "truly unusual, very novel, and no doubt reveals something very very important about the nuclear reaction" then others in the field should take notice. Perhaps they have?


    Also, reports of "strange radiation" seem to be popping up everywhere lately, and I could not help but wonder if there is a link? Too bad mainstream science is not involved, as it may take their involvement to piece all these seemingly unrelated, strange and unusual effects together...whether what they discover turns out to be an unusual anomaly, or LENR. They *are* seeing something, that is for sure.


    It is a hell of a mystery this LENR, so it is understandable why those in the field like Storms call it an addiction.

    Shane D, it's always a real pleasure to read your comments.

    I decided to not go to ICCF 21 becausen for myself, always the same circus made by mostly self-satisfied retirees.. ( no more than few XH since long long years)

    The good point was : Money saved for own experiments.

    The bad : I lost opportunity to meet people like Ed Storms.

    During an older event in France a friend shared his paper/work where it was well explained how a palladium test sample deforms anisotropically in relation to its length and width, helped too by famous alpha and beta phases.

    Therefore, Jacques Ruer shared a paper at ICCF 21 where he proposed tangible scenarios to explain that events listed as LENR would not be in fact.

    I remember for example P&F sample that melted/crossed the table.

    I understand palladium remains expensive therefore why Ed didn't test some sample with large geometric differences to try to increase its XH ?

    I would have liked to ask him this question ..


    David Fojt


  • Courtesy of Ruby's CFN. Nothing new in this from Dr. Swartz I have not heard from him before, but still a good listen IMO. He has always been a force in LENR. Been "right there" for many years, just ready to introduce either a lab kit, a product, or "close the loop", but still trying. Reminds me of Piantelli.

  • Quote

    Been "right there" for many years, just ready to introduce either a lab kit, a product, or "close the loop", but still trying. Reminds me of Piantelli.


    Always ready but never delivering an incontrovertibly working model with enough excess power to self run, etc. etc.


    Reminds me of most all LENR experimenters.

  • Always ready but never delivering an incontrovertibly working model with enough excess power to self run, etc. etc.


    Reminds me of most all LENR experimenters.


    Ah, Mr. Negativity. Actually, if you listen to Swartz he has been absolutely confident since a week before Mallove was murdered, that he has overunity. He even asked Popular Science (Mechanics?) to write something about what he had achieved, but nothing ever came of it. I always thought one of the better LENR demonstrations was when he ran two Sterling engines; the live one with LENR fuel, and the dummy set up exactly like the live but no fuel. The Sterling ran on the LENR, while the dummy stood still. There is a video of it, but too lazy to look it up.


    It also sounds to me that he thinks he has enough overunity to theoretically close the loop. Every time he tries though, the circuitry eats too much of the excess.


    But like I said, real disappointing that he has not been able to take it to the next step. If he or Piantell would do that, it may tempt the universities to get back involved. He may have DTRA funding, or maybe he mean't someone else does (Forsley/Mossier-Boss do)? If so, that may be what it takes..money and some help.

  • I have listened to the Storms, McKubre, Forsley, Biberian, Mosier-Boss, Norman Cook, Swartz, Hagelstein, Miley, Tanzella, Letts audios, and a couple other speakers whose English was hard to follow. I can not say anything really sticks out as earth shattering.


    I was mainly focused on hearing those tidbits related to commercialization of either a consumer product, or lab kit to send to the Universities. Swartz seems close, but he was also close 18 years ago...in other words, nothing new. Miley says he could probably cobble together a 30 or 50W unit using grams of fuel, but he did not sound too enthusiastic about it.


    IMO, GEC appears closest to having something, but Forsley, or Mosier-Boss, did not reveal anything on the commercial side we did not already know. Basically they talked about their patent submitted in 2007, and approved in 2013. Little about their joint NASA venture. Good stuff though, in that what they said confirmed many aspects of the SPAWAR JWK LENR and the claims made by Global Energy Corporation (GEC) thread.


    One of those I most wanted to hear from was the Safire reps, yet I see no audio from them on CFN. Did they do a presentation, and if so what did they say? BG over on ECW says they listened to him during breaks, but were tight lipped in return when he tried to compare notes. Their lead spokesman Childs is set to speak http://www.electricuniverseuk.com/events.html#os so maybe we will get a report from what he says there later on.


    Which brings me to what sticks out most to me, and that was McKubre and his lecture against secrecy in the field. He claims "everyone one of you is concealing something". I am but a person on a forum, but if my opinion means anything, I would have to agree with him. We see so many of our own examples right here, and on ECW with me356, Suhas, Lion, and ahem. Other examples go back to the earliest days of CF when someone, or some group, thinks they have figured it out, smell money, and go dark. They had their Eneco back then, formed to capitalize on the advances, and we have our IH today doing the same.


    Nothing wrong with secrets, and making money BTW, but unfortunately it never seems to come to anything other than the few *pieces* of the puzzle they really had, get buried alongside them. As McKubre mentions; we consume tremendous amounts of resources rediscovering that same piece of the puzzle they took to the grave. Well, he did not quite say it that way, but close. :)


    Frustrating, and one can not help but wonder if the field is it's own worse enemy, as many of the old guard have said before? Nonetheless, my hat is off to Storms, Biberian, the Japanese, and MFMP who are committed to open science first, and profit second.

  • Frustrating, and one can not help but wonder if the field is it's own worse enemy, as many of the old guard have said before? Nonetheless, my hat is off to Storms, Biberian, the Japanese, and MFMP who are committed to open science first, and profit second.


    Thanks for the recap.

    Did Storms mainly discuss theory? Did he seem to indicate any significant advance? All the "johnny come lately" plasma talk would kind of throw his "small crack" environment theory out the window.... or possibly they are two different phenomena..... or possibly the plasma stuff is simply a light show. I have to believe Rossi's is anyway.


    Did Cook mention Rossi or any of their collaborations? Strange if Rossi has working stuff yet as with almost everyone (except AA and AS) they jump ship on him. Odd is it not that Rossi does not mention Cook anymore. Do any of the handful of believers here have any logical reason why? :S

  • Bob,


    Storms, and Miley still taking about cracks, or NAE's. If anything about plasma's, I missed it.


    Cook did not mention Rossi thank goodness. He was all theory, and dense to me. After that I stayed away from the theory guys..except for Hagelstein. And the only reason I listened to him, is that he is doing his own experiments now. A while back, Dewey mentioned Cook turning his back on Rossi, I believe. Rossi mentioned something on JONP indicating that to be the case also. That is why he has this young Swede working with him now.