Posts by SSC

Quote from sigmoidal

These are facts that all parties (Rossi, IH and Third Parties) agree to - in other words, these are undisputed facts regarding this case:

Quote from sigmoidal

94. J.M. Products has never been owned by Johnson Matthey or controlled by a trust formed in the United Kingdom; it has always been owned by the Platinum American Trust.

95. J.M. Products has never been a subsidiary of Johnson Matthey.

96. Johnson Matthey has never had an ownership interest in J.M. Products.

Quote from sigmoidal

Conclusion: The uncontested evidence now recorded in a US Federal Court clearly shows that Dottore Andrea Rossi is accurately defined as a 'scammer'.

Sig, you yourself have said that the three points mentioned are accepted by both sides, so they are true!

IH admits they have always known that JM had nothing to do with Johnson Matthey.

In Rossi's email to Darden that you can find in document 207-41 it is clear how Rossi talks about a client who wants initially to remain secret but does not say that this customer is Johnson Matthey. Here you all are convinced that the hidden client does not exist, but the fact that Rossi or JM represent him does not mean this at all. There are cases where an entity or group does not want to be discovered until it can show that has invested in something that really works .... there are so many cases that are not contemplated here and which maybe are described in the secretive pages in the process.

From 207-41:

"Today I got the solid hope that after 3-4 months of good operation they will make an official outing. As a matter of fact I was not supposed to give you their name. [...] I am sure after 3-4 month they will put another CEO if the plant will go well, and that they will disclose themselves. Now NOT. There have been no way to obtain this. It is necessary we send them by the next week the agreement signed, otherwise they will go on without our plant: as a matter of fact, they do not need us."

Quote from THHuxleynew

You need a company competent and willing to formulate and stand by their own tests, rather than one that validates your tests. The best solution would be:

testing company + skeptical academic. Get the skeptical academic to agree a bomb-proof black box test with a testing company who conduct it. Better, get another skeptical academic to review the test protocol from the first and suggest improvements. You end up with a very carefully instrumented test with no motivation for any of the testers to seek positive results. The report from this would be convincing. For added validation you document iterations of the protocol with reasons for changes (though this is not really needed).

Industrial secrecy needs to be taken into account. If you need to know some things ( like the right trigger or the correct sequence of actions or the right frequency of powering up, etc.) for the Ecat to work, it is obvious that a team of experts would not be able to do it without the help of Rossi.

Quote from IH Fanboy

First sentence of IH's Statement of the Case:

"Plaintiffs claim to have invented a technology called the "E-Cat" capable of violating the law of conservation of energy by producing far more energy than it consumes."

When funds are to be raised by investors, LENR technologies are promising and will save the planet from pollution, but they become "impossible" when they are at the center of a lawsuit. Yet IH has invested so much money into so many different research groups, like Brillouin ..... thrown money?

Quote from THHuxleynew

SSC - what in your fictional scenario does IH get from 52 weeks of test that it cannot get from 1 week of test?

Your point here makes no more sense than the test itself, which no-one sensible would want to run.

You should ask them. JT admitted he had not warned Rossi immediately when they decided that the test was not the GPT because he feared that Rossi would end the test. IH wanted to see how it was going to end .... (I hope you don't believe to the "I don't recall" statement.....)

254-04

Did -- any time after October 2013 and

18 prior to this lawsuit beginning, did Industrial Heat

19 inform Dr. Rossi that, The time had passed, you could no

20 longer achieve guaranteed performance, and you could no

21 longer achieve an $89 million payment?

22 A. I'm not sure that we informed him of that

23 verbatim, as you stated.

24 Q. Okay. Did you say it to him in any -- any

25 summary of that, in any -- in any way did you say, Listen,

the time has passed, you are -- we are not having a

2 guaranteed performance test?

3 A. I am trying to recall. You know, I -- I don't

4 recall.

5 Q. Do you think that was something that would be

6 important to inform him, that he no longer had the

7 opportunity to earn $89 million?

8 A. Again, we were planning to pay him, if he could

9 perform. Notwithstanding the fact that he had violated

10 the agreement, not met the conditions of the agreement.

11 So if we had done that, let's take a hypothetical

12 scenario, dealing with a volatile character, you don't

13 know how he is going to respond. Our goal, as stewards

14 and as managers, is to determine definitively the state of

15 the art. And by being confrontational, sooner rather than

16 later, it ensured that you would just blow up in -- there

17 was a chance, at least, that you would blow up the entire

18 relationship and Andrea would stop working on it

19 altogether and so, therefore, we just wouldn't know.

20 Versus getting more information and getting more data to

21 determine the state of the art.

Quote from Shane D.

So they were in this difficult position, where they had suspicions on one hand, but they also had the Swedes and the possibility that Rossi was holding back, on the other. With what they felt was their call to duty to get to the bottom of this for the good of the planet, they chose the only option they thought best, and that was to ride it out, and let Rossi be Rossi. That may cost them dearly.

Oh my God..... Do you really think that VC people could move even just a finger "for the good of the planet"? They didn't tell explicitly and in a timely manner that they did not consider the Doral test as the GPT because they did not want Rossi to stop the test before the result was clear but they had never been inclined to pay him.

Quote from joshg

276-05 is an interesting breakdown of IH's corporate structure and holdings spanning 2012-2014, just prior to Woodford's investment. Page 21 of 54 is a breakdown of investments until that point, showing that by 2014, they had invested $332,000 in "New Heat" which is the company they set up to own their investments in Brillouin. So basically this shows that by the end of 2014, they had invested $332,000 in Brillouin. Now we know what stake they have (or had as of a few years ago) in Brillouin.

A huge amount indeed..... I bet that this investment has been accompanied by the passage of many information that IH has taken directly from Rossi's technology.

Quote from Shane D.

Oh well, like many of us have said for the past year, the court system is a crap shoot. Rossi knew that going into this agreement with IH from the beginning, and planned accordingly. As disgusting as it is to accept, he may walk away with a settlement.

So....let me try to understand your thought..... Do you really think that Rossi began such an expensive legal fight to pursue a plan conceived when he met IH for the first time (or soon after) and that this plan was founded on the certainty that the American court system is populated by idiots? You really have a diabolic mind..... such an incredible fantasy, wasted for a simple forum!

Quote from Roger

The most plausible hypothesis is of course that Rossi is a hypnotist conman able to successfully mass hypnotize the scientists and engineers he works with, or who can study his works closely.

As stated in document 254-04, also IH considers Rossi an unstable and difficult person, and with this excuse they made him believe that the Doral test was the GPT despite not considering it as such. For IH it was more important to get to the end of the test than tell Rossi that they did not want to pay for it. Perhaps for many people this is a normal attitude, typical of business people. In my opinion, it is the behavior of sharks.

254-04:

Did -- any time after October 2013 and

18 prior to this lawsuit beginning, did Industrial Heat

19 inform Dr. Rossi that, The time had passed, you could no

20 longer achieve guaranteed performance, and you could no

21 longer achieve an $89 million payment?

22 A. I'm not sure that we informed him of that

23 verbatim, as you stated.

24 Q. Okay. Did you say it to him in any -- any

25 summary of that, in any -- in any way did you say, Listen,

the time has passed, you are -- we are not having a

2 guaranteed performance test?

3 A. I am trying to recall. You know, I -- I don't

4 recall.

5 Q. Do you think that was something that would be

6 important to inform him, that he no longer had the

7 opportunity to earn $89 million?

8 A. Again, we were planning to pay him, if he could

9 perform. Notwithstanding the fact that he had violated

10 the agreement, not met the conditions of the agreement.

11 So if we had done that, let's take a hypothetical

12 scenario, dealing with a volatile character, you don't

13 know how he is going to respond. Our goal, as stewards

14 and as managers, is to determine definitively the state of

15 the art. And by being confrontational, sooner rather than

16 later, it ensured that you would just blow up in -- there

17 was a chance, at least, that you would blow up the entire

18 relationship and Andrea would stop working on it

19 altogether and so, therefore, we just wouldn't know.

20 Versus getting more information and getting more data to

21 determine the state of the art.

Quote from sigmoidal

I have experience working as an Engineer (over a decade). Rossi has demonstrated that he DEFINITELY DOES NOT have good engineering skills in any traditional sense. This may boil down to semantics, because I think what you are more accurately observing is that Rossi has some unique 'technical' skills.

Have you ever made experiments where it was necessary to conceal some industrial secrets? Do you really think that it is easy to let others (experts in the matter) test a reactor, preventing them from fully understanding its functioning? People often forget that Rossi did not invent the E-Cat to give it to scientists. Rossi has always wanted to protect his own secrets and I think many seemingly strange choices (such as not wanting to use certain probes) are due to this reason.

Quote from JedRothwell

There are three reasons why I am sure they told Woodford:

1. The Internet works in the U.K. too. Woodford surely found out all about Rossi. How could he not know that Rossi is a huge risk who has been accused of criminal conduct and lying?

2. This is business. If you do not reveal something like that, Woodford will find out and then demand his money back. If you don't return it, he will sue. That's how business works. You don't hide critical facts from people who invest $50 million. That would be a crazy thing to do.

3. They told me and several other people. Why would they not tell Woodford? I never heard from him. In fact, I had never even heard of him until recently. But I expect he has heard of me, and of others in the cold fusion field. I would be surprised if he did not consult with researchers. Any researcher would tell him that Rossi's reputation is poison and his claims are questionable.

You're talking about Rossi's reputation and about doubts connected with his "atypical" technology. No one questions the fact that IH has discussed about that with Woodford. But I refer to another thing: If IH really have had some concrete evidence that Rossi reactors did not work (ie IH had done tests with negative results), I do not think Woodford was been informed before his substantial payment.

So either IH has achieved positive results from their tests, or has kept the truth hidden to their investors.

Quote from JedRothwell

Who told you they did not do this? Where did you get this information?

See document 254-04,where Vaughn admits that he didn't promptly inform Rossi about the fact that IH had some trouble with the Doral test because of they feared about his reaction. IH wanted the test to finish in order to see if the technology worked.

Quote from JedRothwell

I.H. expressed doubts about Rossi's test to me while the test was underway. They told me this in confidence. They did not tell me the full extent of the problems. I do not know whether they grasped the full extent of the problems. But they expressed doubts for reasons I felt were well founded. I thought it sounded bad, but I hoped that Rossi would correct the problems.

I am repeating this to make a point. If I.H. was willing to tell me this, I find it inconceivable that they would not also tell potential investors.

Following your reasoning, you think that is more conceivable that if I betray my wife, instead of confessing my action to a friend of mine I run to her telling everything...... How can you think that since IH told you their doubts then they should have done it also with Woodford? Did you gave them 50 million dollars too?

(sorry but I had tried to post that already but seems that was not recorded)

Quote from Shane D.

SSC,

So is there a problem with that?

Sounds to me like Woodford went into the investment mainly for Rossi, and Rossi never came through. I miss where in that e-mail they blame IH for that? Looks to me, like many others before them, Woodford is now another victim of Rossi. Of course, a few here think that is another feather in his cap.

Shane, I was just replied to Barty, who wrote " Maybe Woodford invested because of them [other LENR players], and not because the 1MW plant was so impressive." I think he invested because of Rossi, since he defined his technology the " core element of the initial investment". And I think that in his e-mail, Paul is blaming IH because he talks about "disappointment". Moreover, IIRC, Woodford gave 50 million dollars to IH when IH did not have any other technology. It was in February 2015, after a visit to the 1 MW Plant. So I repeat, Woodford didn't care so much about the portfolio and gave IH his money because of Rossi.

Quote from IH Fanboy

So Murray is building his own stuff with differences, testing it without knowing what fuel is in it, whether it was prepared correctly, whether it was loaded correctly, and then when it doesn't work, declaring that the e-Cat doesn't work after a few months of trying. That doesn't strike me as particularly persuasive or conclusive

Murray did the same thing when he made his "simulation" of the Plant but he didn't know where the flow meter should be positioned. He is quite a inaccurate expert!

Quote from barty

We often hear the argument that Woodford invested the money after they saw the 1MW plant and so IH must have defrauded Woodford.

But was this plant visit really the critical trigger for their investment? We know that IH is also involved with other LENR players which at least seem to work with scientific methods. Maybe Woodford invested because of them, and not because the 1MW plant was so impressive.

Do we have this information from Woodford?

From 214- 35:

Mail from JT Vaughn to Paul Lamacraft, Neil Woodford and others.

"I wanted to let you guys know that we will be releasing a public statement tomorrow morning at approximately 10:30 AM ET concerning our position with regard to Rossi's technology. The statement will make it know that based on our experience, analysis and observations we are not in position to announce the successful testing of his technology now or at any previous time. The statement will go on to talk about our portfolio of leading LENR technologies (aside from Andrea Rossi's technology) and announce (for the first time publicly) our serious engineering efforts presently underway [...]"

Answer:

"This is clearly very disappointing given that Rossi's technology was a core element of the initial investment. Can you let me have sight of the statement please."

So it seems to me that Woodford didn't care so much about the portfolio but gave a great importance to Rossi's technology.

Quote from IHSupporter

It sounds like IH are going to go after the 10M as well. The test it was based on did not have the level of energy agreed to and not the number of "engines" and it was stopped before the time required.

Why did they pay for a test they did not approve of? This is one of the many things IH has begun to complain about just after the suit was filed....

Quote from Shane D.

From 262-07, sounds like IH did not have any real talent on board until Murray was hired.

Such a due diligence they made!! I would like to know what they told to investors to get them to pay .....

Quote from IH Fanboy

IH worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success. But the Cook-Rossi scientific paper better not be published on Arxiv, or else! I mean, if IH loses control of the all-without-success-unsubstantiated e-Cat technology, it would be an outright travesty for IH and its investors.

Quote

Rossi:

As you have seen in the documents published of the litigation, IH has accused me to have violated the NDA with the publication of the paper Cook-Rossi: while this accusation is ridiculous, since they had approved the draft before the publication on Arxiv Physics, this fact explains to you how mined is the field I have to walk through.

In this case it really seems that IH climbs on the mirrors. We all have read Rossi's emails to Darden, in which Rossi talked about his collaboration with Cook and about the article they were writing. What is the sense of accusing him of having violated the NDA? They could not complain before?

Quote from Bob

We now know that Rossi ran the entire Lugano test and that the professors were rarely there at all! Does this sound familiar?

The professors used data loggers and cameras that controlled the test continuously. If Rossi was intervened by changing something, they would have seen this from the data analysis. It made no sense for them to stay there and fix the Ecat for a month!

Quote from Rends

Darden et al. were never interested in working with Rossi as an industrial partner, they wanted to get his IP and, above all, the formula for his fuel as quickly and cheaply as possible and then award licenses to other contract partners from the big industry and thereby become dizzying rich.

This is evident from the fact that IH didn't check on IP value. As Vaughn himself admits, initially IH had not competent engineers, yet they extolled the virtues of Rossi's technology to investors.