Posts by ZenoOfElea

I voted for the weak evidence choice. Seems like the only rational response to me. I certainly don't see any strong evidence.

Edit - I guess "strong evidence" is a subjective term for many.

"Witch hunt" - I don't think there is any witch hunt agains LENR believers on this forum.

Personally I have fluctuated between strong believer and weak believer, largely due to Rossi and his antics.

Who on LENR-Forum can be labelled as a skeptopath?

Even MaryYugo, who may be the most skeptical commenter, is interested and looking for LENR and would likely be delighted to have LENR commercialized.

In fact anyone who is convinced LENR is not a thing would have no motivation to hang around this site.

Edit - I notice that currently one person has voted for "LENRs are impossible. Have you never read a physics textbook?" so is that humour? If genuine then why come to an LENR site?

“Skeptopath” is probably one of the most useless words around. It basically means anyone who disagrees with what you think to be true. As an example let’s look at AGW.

So is someone who does not accept the evidence for AGW a skeptopath?

Evidence for AGW is hundreds of times more than for LENR (tens of thousands of papers vs 153 peer reviewed papers for LENR according to Jed).

So isn’t an AGW skeptopath who labels someone who does not accept LENR as a skeptopath a hypocrite?

Similarly if an AGW skeptopath criticizes the scientific community for not accepting the evidence for LENR, is that not hypocritical?

The problem with such subjective labels is they are a slap down but not encouraging to free and open debate.

@Jed

While it would have been nice to see Rossi brought to justice it is not the job of IH to do that or pay for it.

Their job was to invest aka "throw some money" at Rossi to discover what he had, and when it turned out to be a pile of poo to extricate themselves as gracefully as possible.

Unfortunately the poo exploded into a shit storm.

I think it has already been suggested by others that the only value that the IP has now for IH is a protection in case they actually stumble over a working LENR device and Rossi comes after them for a share of the money.

I am less optimistic after all this that IH have the wherewithall to find what they are looking for. But who knows?

Sorry but, with respect, you guys are rubbish at speculation.

If you want to get some proper, out of its box and romping across the prairies speculation, you need to go to ECat World.

The Alice in Wonderland domain where global warming is a conspiracy and E48 and Sifferkoll are kings and Rossi has had a magnificent triumph. They will be celebrating long into the night.

For my speculation I start with the point that Rossi initiated this, IH did not want it.

Efforts by various parties failed to reach settlement, again I surmise it was Rossi who continued to drive the case in the hope of whatever payoff he thought he could get. Then right in the courthouse we get a settlement.

From the view it was Rossi that blocked any settlement then it follows it was Rossi who allowed the settlement when it became a clear IH was not going to give any more without the trials of a court case.

I note that Abd says Lukacs asked to confer with Pace which is suggestive, but not conclusive, of the Rossi side initiating the settlement.

Of course the above is tame speculation, I could be wrong.

On the other hand.

Maybe IH paid the $89million.

Maybe Rossi's lawyers finally talked some sense into him regarding the risk.

Maybe Rossi played this to the edge then walked away with a smile.

Maybe Darden is a Martian who would melt if he put his hand on a bible.

Maybe now Rossi will finally get his Nobel prize for con artistry.

Maybe the ECat is real .... ooops sorry went a bit far there.

And so the great contest enters the next phase.

Roll up, roll up and bet your Quatloos.

Who will be first to market with the LENR magnificence of the century, Rossi or Darden?

They started as partners and soon became bitter rivals.

Not since Edison vs Tesla have we seen such a mighty contest.

Roll up, roll up!

ultrasure

You sure sound ultrasure.

Evidence please?

The way most people see it is damage limitation. No evidence of any big winners.

Both Rossi and IH have taken serious reputational damage in all this mess.

WOW!

So Rossi gets out with his skin intact and under the cover of confidentiality i.e. more secrecy.

Gives Rossi plenty of space to continue with his fantasies.

What a fiasco!

But hopefully IH can get on with the real LENR research now.

With thanks to THH, Sigmoidal, Shane D, Jed and many others and with special regards to the moderators who have a difficult job.

But, fascinating as this all is, don't you guys on the west side of the pond have some kind of celebration to be attending?

Best wishes from the east side of the pond to all the forum members in the USA on this 4 July 2017.

Like many my view is that Rossi sued IH hoping they would settle.

If that is the case then his grandiosity has been overplayed, they didn't settle.

However it occurs to me that this could be a way out for Rossi.

Best case he wins and gets $89m.

Worst case he loses but could he be forced to pay any money back?

If, as Sigmoidal, Mike Dunford and others have guessed, neither side is awarded any financial penalty then what is to stop Rossi claiming he cannot work with IH and cannot get his IP back so he will retire with his condos?

IH are his scapegoat, and like many fraudsters he uses the fallout to cover his escape.

It would seem likely that Rossi could get away with this.

Then of course maybe Rossi doesn't know when to quit.

Quote from PeterMetz

I don't understand why Rossi fans are so bent out of shape with IH and this trial. Worse immediate case for Rossi is he loses the suit and doesn't collect however many millions (at least $89M and maybe up to $300M if all damages are awarded) but he will still make an absolute fortune with his E-Cat and QuarkX (maybe the same thing) technology. This would be true even if he has to share with IH since I believe they own the rights of E-CatX related technology over certain areas. And Rossi's reputation will be easily restored. He should have no trouble financing this fantastic technology even after a failed lawsuit. On the other hand if he doesn't have the commercially viable revolutionary technology then he is doomed and forever branded a fraud and failure--but for Rossi fans, this should not be a concern, as Rossi should have the last laugh.

Rossi's believers are getting “bent out of shape” because Rossi, after so many years, has produced nothing.

We know about his jail time in Italy and his fraudulent behaviour is well known and on the record.

But if, despite all that, you believe he is some kind of a genius then where are the goods?

No solid demonstrations that Rossi hasn’t interfered with.

No product sold (despite the lies otherwise).

His followers are understandably frustrated.

So the obvious thing to do is to look for who is to blame, but not Rossi of course.

It must be IH who are evil.

It must be a conspiracy by the government.

All these evil forces are stopping Rossi from selling a single ecat or QuarkX or whatever his latest invention is.

The only other explanation is that Rossi is a delusional crook, but that would not be logical would it?

Rigel

And I value Ken and yourself, and all the different opinions (well almost all ).

I came here to find out more but the reason was IH and Rossi.

There is a big noise, what is going on?

Rossi makes a big noise.

He attracts many to the LENR forums.

Unfortunately Rossi is also toxic.

Anyone that gets involved with him end up in a dispute of some kind.

Commentators end up in factions.

However thanks to all here I have learned and changed my mind about Rossi.

Hopefully most are willing to listen and be prepared to change their minds as we learn more.

As far as LENR is concerned that is a small background noise that has been going on for decades.

This noise is ignored by the mainstream of science.

Maybe they are right and there is nothing, or nothing significant.

MFMP and others are trying their best but if another year or two goes by then I suspect many on the LENR boards will drift off to other things.

As far as this forum is concerned I am happy with the moderation, but you cannot please everyone.

It is not necessarily fair, it may sometimes seem biased.

It is a complicated thing to allow as much freedom of speech as possible but without the discussion degenerating into trolling or personal attacks.

There are many smart people here and valuable input from people who are knowledgeable technically, scientifically or legally or have privileged insights.

I am grateful to these people for the time they spend on this.

I guess we are all free to go and start our own discussion site with our own rules if we wish.

Quote from Alan Smith

It certainly confirms that their idea of 'due diligence' needs an overhaul.

I think we all are agreed on that at least.

Fascinating insight into the sociology of science whereby a group that works on LENR anomolies claims they are being ignored/ostracized by the main stream, and there is probably some truth in this, but then when a critic appears the LENR group ignores/ostracizes that critic.

So is LENR real or not?

There are over 150 papers.

But numbers and effort do not necessarily amount to anything.

How many smart people wasted their lives trying to turn lead into gold?

Reminds me of the old saying eat cow poop 100 billion flies can't be wrong.

Quote from [email protected]

I remember reading Jones Beene saying something to the effect that Rossi admitted to buying Ni62 quantities and that he was allowed to touch the dogbone and open it right before testing began. Such a thing would not be allowed if magicians like James Randi were monitoring the events. But that's just one issue. For Rossi to have been able to hoodwink so many people, he would be a master con man, among the best in history.

Uri Geller hoodwinked a lot of people so he must be one of the greatest master con men in history - or not

Sounds like judge Altonaga will not be putting up with shenanigans from either side.

Shenanigans are particularly useful when one wants to confuse or obfuscate or misdirect (not naming any names).

Let's see if Plaintiffs or Defendants try any shenanigans during the trial, it might be fun.

Very interesting technology. Unfortunately, due to power needs, Göksel wants to use a fusion reactor aboard the plane to provide suitable power output.

I cannot see planes flying around with small fusion reactors.

This is another area where LENR potentially might make the magneto-plasma jet technology viable.

Not sure how a settlement could be agreed.

Rossi would want it to be "secret and confidential" so he is able to paint it as a victory, but he would not be able to resist blogging about it.

Rossi would want his IP back but he is not going to be able to pay the money back to IH since a lot is now spent in legal fees.

What reasons do IH have to settle at this point? The legal costs are mostly committed now so unless they want to settle for fear of the chance of losing. Seems they are not in the mood to settle.

We should find out more pending further judgments tomorrow.

Wyttenbach

Oh good.

Now we can do an IHFB job on this.

1. Is this a genuine document? I asked a 5 year old child and they thought it was probably a forgery.

2. When they say "Rossi does not know" that is not the same as saying "I admit I lied to Rossi". Maybe they meant "We keep it a secret" and obviously a secret is not the same as a lie. I personally take it to imply "Rossi does not know ... so we must be sure to tell him",

oldguy

So if Rossi loses he gets nothing.

If Rossi wins he gets a lot of not much, along with his huge legal bills.

Plus no rational investor will ever touch him again.

Has he really thought this through do you think?

Quote from THHuxleynew

I'm not sure, but do not expect factual errors from the IH in limine counter-response, whence I derived my comment (while dubious interpretive leaps will be found always on both sides). I accept what you say here, but see little distinction in meaning, so my point stands.

On Abd's site Abd has combined his normal detailed and able reading of the documents with his (also normal) venting against the evils of LF's light and imperfect moderation. I commented. You and other LF mods might wish to do so, or not.

Well you can't please everyone.

Abd seems to be less about moderating and more about dictatorship.

Certainly glad Abd is not a moderator on this site.

Quote from Thetruemonty

I remotely remember Dewey talking about that he was asked to back off from this forum on more than one occasion.

He never said by whom though.

I remember that too. I took it to be an informal suggestion from the IH side or possibly a lawyer recommendation.

If APCO were trying to "manage" this site and wanted Dewey to back off they I think they would insist that Dewey backed off. So the fact he continues to post suggests to me that APCO are not "managing" this site.

In fact the main protagonists against Rossi are, in my view, Jed, THHuxley and Sigmoidal.

Their arguments are logical and evidence based, using facts and quotes from Rossi himself.

So I see no reason for APCO to get involved, Rossi is providing enough evidence on his own.