Online I agree that heat is not the way for proof, we know that gammas are emitted, the neutrons (anisotropic emission) and transmutation. These things are much more frequent than thought.
Those who have looked for transmutation even in electrolysis experiments have found it.
Safire found transmutation first, and in the follow-up observed heat and transmutations. Be interesting to see which they focus on once they get their funding secured.
I disagree. No heat means there is no cold fusion. "Heat is the principle signature of the reaction. - Fleischmann. If "nuclear-centric" means looking for neutrons, it is a dead end.
I do not have a dog in this race, other than wanting to get this thing figured out the fastest way possible. But if I understood him correctly, Collis believes it is lack of a theory that has LENR stuck in this circle, and the fastest way to a theory is via research geared towards learning the nuclear mechanisms. He did have a little push-back by the first questioner, so I take it there is some disagreement between the theorists, and experimenters as to what is the best way forward. If so, that is not unusual for any branch of science.
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This does not work well. It gets tagged as "media" and plays here. You want to link to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…du9RBqvUxxOpoO2GSquUjzn2r
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Thanks to Jed for providing. At 12:50 Bill Collis has some advice for the field, as he tries to encourage a more disciplined, nuclear centric approach going forward. Frowns on "looking for heat", as a dead end that will not break LENR out of the vicious circle it is stuck in. Some interesting Q&A follows, with Alan S offering up his observations of gammas. Worth a listen for those doing the work.
“You are taking liberties with what I said”
And Shane, you are taking liberties with what I said. My whole point is that it is a leap to use Mills as an example in a discussion of the competence of LENR researchers. The leap is not whether Mills is a competent researcher. The leap is not whether LENR is real or whether hydrino theory is valid. The leap is that Mills is an LENR researcher. I don’t think he considers himself to be one, and only the LENR community calls him one for the reasons I stated. This has nothIng whatsoever to do with being open-minded or being skeptical. It is just a version of the old adage about giving a man a hammer and everything looks like a nail. Show potential new physics and it must be LENR.
I was not talking to you so much as using your post (sorry) to make a broad appeal, in an attempt to bring a little more balance to the forum between believers and skeptics. When we believers read too much into something, the skeps are there to bring us back down to earth. When the skeps start rejecting everything we say out of hand, we are there to redirect them back to being more objective. So in this case, when or if Mills starts this new proof of concept campaign, I believe everyone should have an open mind, and not let their preconceived BLP biases taint their assessment of what BLP does.
As to BLP, and where they fit into the equation (LENR or something different), I think it is safe to lump them together. The BLP people tell me Mills does not identify with LENR, nor want to be associated with it in any way, but his early history reads like LENR to me. Keeps things simpler to do it this way, with the added benefit we can not be accused of chasing multiple fringe sciences. 
Mills is a good example of what? This strikes me as another case of members of the LENR community embracing a wide range of fringe science claims as being examples of LENR even when the claimants don’t make that association. Regardless of what may or may not be true about LENR, I strongly doubt that every proposed new energy source is based on it. Of course, you can take Director’s tact and declare that everything including LENR can be explained by his own pet scientific epiphany.
You are taking liberties with what I said. Mills and his team are competent, and that was my "good example" to THH. Yes, as I have said many times before, they have to show more to prove the concept. Apparently Mills is considering doing just that, yet already it seems THH has decided that will not be enough. He simply will not accept what they produce. Whatever it is will be DOA. That is not an open mind to me. And may I remind you that the foundational principle of this forum is having an open mind? If you feel otherwise, there are other forums dedicated to totally negative points of view.
I also take exception to your description that the "LENR community embraces a wide range of fringe science claims". They embrace only one, and that is LENR. Yes, it is not easy to nail down, perhaps giving the appearance of chasing the fringe, but all are zeroed in on an elusive science that was first discovered 100 years ago. That is why we are all here. Skepticism is a part of the discovery process, and we welcome their input, but if that is all someone has to offer, then it hinders more than helps.
Considering this is a believer based forum, understandably it is a fine line for skeps to walk. That is why we only want those with good balance...on both sides.
The whole Suncell system is inherently difficult to validate - a gimmick by nature. It will be interesting to see how much they try to validate it but had the bombproof method they would be somewhere different with acclaim from the likes of NASA, so I do notr hold out much hope.
Obviously you have little faith there is anyone competent in all of LENR. Even doing such a simple measurement as a water bath test is beyond their capability. Suit yourself, but I am of a different opinion, and believe the LENR field is full of capable researchers...Mills and team being a good example.
When/if they kick off the new campaign, it will not be to impress the hardened critics as I said. They will not be satisfied until a product comes on the market. It will be targeting those who have an open mind to new theories/ideas, and have not fully committed to mainstream science group think. Plenty of those people left -thank goodness, or like LeBob said, we would still be stuck in the dark ages.
This PR means nothing, scientifically. 125kW out, 25kW in is entirely compatible, also, with net energy balance, since the time over which the two powers are measured is not stated.
With weasel words like this, confusing power and energy in a pulsed system, is it surprising BLP are not taken seriously?
They are considering releasing a more detailed paper on the water bath Suncell experiment, along with taking other steps that would better showcase their prototype. If so, it probably won't silence the most vocal critics, but would be convincing to those watching it in operation, or reading the data. Those who want to see, will see there are no gimmicks.
Donald Scott talking about the Safire Project in this new video. Thunderbolt really running with this, and I can't blame them. Seems to have given the Electric Sun theory as much a needed boost, as it has for LENR.
Somethings gotta be happening here, especially within the well funded companies that have good reason not to release all the information at the moment.
Of all those companies, BLP has by far been the most transparent, and looks to have a sophisticated, powerful, albeit hard to contain prototype. There has been nothing like it in LENR's 30 years that I know of. Sure, there have been some impressive looking concept drawings/models, but those just represent hopes and dreams, where the Suncell is real, working, and being tested.
Why then, after all that, the many validations, and video testimony they still struggle to find a partner with the expertise, and financial depth to bring this technology to fruition baffles me as much as it does others. Just the one independent replication by the ARA (Applied Research Associates) alone, should have had the investors, and companies lined up at the door begging BLP to take their money. or partner up.
The skeptic's have the easy answer; they have nothing, and this is a scam. I just do not buy that. Yes, it is possible, and if Mills were a one man show, I would have joined them by now. But they do have a team of approx 12 scientists/engineers, along with the other 12-13 employees. Hard to get that many to go along with a product fraud. Maybe for a short time, but not this long. Someone would have cracked by now, and spilled the beans. These are not a group of thugs recruited from the street, but highly educated, motivated people making it that much harder.
And from what I have been told, they are a very dedicated group, and do believe in this technology. While we question the input vs output, they build the machines, calorimetry, run the tests, so know what they do, and what they measure. They are believers in their own work. That does not mean we should "take their word for it" though.
Thanks Sam. Someone has to keep up with Rossi, and you save the rest of us from having to keep track.
Except for the big cables, it was impressive.
Judging by the recent interest on divulgation of their results (as the interview with the onehundrednine guy) I think they are looking for widespread popularity of their research. I am a bit puzzled for that, and tend to guess there are some other aspects involved beyond the mere commercial approach.
Considering a government lab replicated their results ("and some other things as well"), I am surprised they need to shop their results around to gain popularity, much less having to go begging for money to commercialize. That seems to be a common story in LENR though.
If you include BLP in with LENR; the same thing happened with them. The ARA replicated them in 2015-2016 I believe it was, and here they are years later having to show science porn videos to attract attention.
"A large heat sink comprising 15 kg of gallium metal, half inch-thick steel reaction chamber walls to distribute heat, and dual impinging water jets in a 200-gallon tank of room temperature water were overwhelmed by the power of the SunCell® resulting in rapid onset of flash boiling and melting through the thick stainless steel wall that quenched the hydrino reaction."
So what kind of power would it take to overwhelm such a system? And assuming there was no secret cable fed in (which I doubt with a 12 man team), what would it take to contain? Very impressive video, and I can think of no others in LENR history that come close to matching it.
That said is good to be aware that the Global BEM is a controversial venue where subjects that are often derided and scoffed by mainstream are openly discussed, including conspiracy and also ET contact and presence in Earth (the host of the event, Susan Manewich, claims lifetime ET contact). This is something that does not bother me at all but is off putting to most people and is good to be warned for not getting side blinded by that kind of statements.
I have been reading their website, and was thinking the same thing. Global BEM fosters some "far out" hard science along with a big dose of the socical sciences, with a little political activism thrown in for good measure. Their conferences may not be a good venue to introduce what we all here hope is a real, credible science, into?
However, the Safire team is both science, and business savvy, so they must have weighed the pro vs cons, and felt it was an overall plus attending. They are seeking money to commercialize the 3 LENR effects they observed (transmutation/AHE/Nuclear waste remediation), and as all LENR researchers before them discovered, that is hard to come by through traditional means. Sometimes you have to roll the dice.
I did see that David Nagel was to present at their 2013 Conference, but backed out.
Thanks to Curbina for finding.
November 9-10, the Netherlands, Europe:
The GlobalBEM Conference will feature over 10 notable scientists, industry insiders, and creative thinkers focused on the science and future direction of breakthrough energy solutions. Presentations and discussion panels will cover emerging energy technologies like zero-point, magnetic, hydro, plasma, and cold fusion low-energy nuclear reactions.
The SAFIRE Project has successfully reverse engineered the atmosphere of the sun in a laboratory on Earth. At the GlobalBEM Conference in the Netherlands, Montgomery Childs and Dr. Michael Clarage will compare two theoretical models of the sun – gravitational and electrical – and present evidence from the most recent SAFIRE experiments relating to energy production, transmutation of elements, and remediation of radioactive materials.
This came out yesterday (2 Oct):
"We continue to improve the power released by the reaction of atomic hydrogen to hydrino or dark matter form of hydrogen catalyzed by HOH catalyst present in trace in low pressure hydrogen. A large heat sink comprising 15 kg of gallium metal, half inch-thick steel reaction chamber walls to distribute heat, and dual impinging water jets in a 200-gallon tank of room temperature water were overwhelmed by the power of the SunCell® resulting in rapid onset of flash boiling and melting through the thick stainless steel wall that quenched the hydrino reaction. The theoretical power from conventional chemistry with hydrogen addition is zero. Very substantial hydrino power is developed relative to the input power to initiate the reaction."
I am frustrated with the extreme delay of the second quarter reports from BLP. I can only hope the delay is because they realize using liquid metal is a complication and they would produce a simpler and more robust system if they used a pure plasma except for the nano-particles sputtered by their electrodes.
I have not gotten a clear answer, so I assume whatever the reason Mills has for not publishing the 2nd Qtr Report (now into the the 4Th), he is keeping to himself, and inner circle. I do not consider this a good sign either.
All that is mostly true, but let’s give some credit to the ~2 million Americans with solar panels on their roofs and the hundreds of thousands driving electric cars. Being in both categories, I don’t consider myself to be doing nothing. And, for what it’s worth, I always explain that we are not trying to save the planet. The planet will be just fine if we screw things up. We just won’t be here to see the results.
Good point I forgot to mention. No doubt all our members are STP types, who not only "talk the talk, but walk the walk". Of course that includes you, with your extensive work in the renewable industry.
Claudio Pace (event co-Chairman), just published some of the presentation videos. My compliments on being so fast in getting these out! Overall, a well run ICCF. My compliments to all involved.
Ruby busy preparing her big report on the ICCF, and asked me to link to these new pictures for her:
