Mat Lewan Meets Rossi in Sweden, Rossi Bidding on Factory For QuarkX Production

Quote from Alan Smith

They are both equally unacceptable. The difference is that 'FWOTW' was meant to be humorous and 'Planet Rossi' is meant to be offensive. If you cannot tell the difference I suggest that you use neither.

Wow really? Please tell me this type of logic is not indicative of your logic in the lab?? I am quite sure those on the opposite side of the isle from you would disagree on that perspective. How on earth is "Planet Rossi" inherently offensive yet "F*ckwit" is nothing more than humor? You lost MAJOR credibility on this one Alan....

Quote

If you cannot tell the difference I suggest that you use neither.

LOL...YOU are the one who suggested it!!!! good lord

Quote from monty

How many sock puppets are you using Dewey?

Oh please Monty......it is now known that Rossi uses MANY sock puppets on all of the forums. randombit0 is one of Rossi's characters on here. I can give you a full rundown on how to spot Rossi fake users, it is quite easy. If you don't believe me look around on the topic of all Rossi's fake users.

Quote from Alan Smith

My dear Stephenrenzz. I have said many times that I have no skin in the Rossi argument. LFH is about LENR experimentation and making the science accessible to independent researchers. It has very little to do with money. Nobody draws a wage, nobody buys as much as a cheese sandwich with company money. We are the only people in the world providing the means to experiment. Rossi makes no difference to us - and what I see here is mostly idle speculation and name-calling. Insufficient data!

But please make up your mind - am I not speculating,

or am I speculating?

.

I would remind you - I am interested in science, not name calling.

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There is absolutely no contradiction in my sentences, you are merely speculating yet calling out Dewey for what you are doing yourself. If you have any facts, present them, otherwise realize your speculation voice is no more valuable than anyone elses. I 'hear' you saying you are for science not name calling....and yet we are speaking of the topic of your namecalling (F*ckwit). Please if you are to expect anyone to take you from a science perspective, do not allow yourself such logic failures within general discussion...it would make any intelligent mind question it beyond that....

Quote from monty

@stephenrezz: So which provable fact did dewey unveil?
and by the way: "It is known" is not a prove

Monty I am not interested in your age old troll bait tactic there. Much of what Dewey says is absolutely hearsay from the public perspective, as I am sure he would admit, but there have been many facts that Dewey has brought to light that have in fact been substantiated. I am not going to do the research for you as I have no desire, you can choose to keep the Rossi-blinders on....that is definitely your prerogative.

Quote from Alan Smith

What am I speculating about?

Your perspectives of the aspects of this situation like everyone else. This has become quite unproductive. Bottom line for me, whether it be here or any other forums or blogs discussing the Rossi/IH I have seen a solid trend of ridicule and attacks towards Dewey, yet people like Sifferkoll are almost heralded as oracles on the facts that are so far unknown across the board on this matter. I have seen some inconsistencies in some of the things Dewey has said, but it does not shock me due to the complexity of this situation. What does interest me about listening to Dewey is that he has put forth information that even the Rossi-camp has had to admit is true. I am not going to get into rehashing it, I am quite sure you are aware of the things I am talking about. This has gone further than I honestly intended Alan....I apologize that you have taken the brunt of my Rossi frustation this time lol I just feel a serious unbalance that frustrates me on these LENR forums....E-Cat World is NOTORIOUS for bad bias and unfair moderation....at least here voices can be heard.

I do not understand why anyone still believes Rossi. In the interview with Lewan, he came right out and said the whole test was fake. He didn't just admit it, he bragged about it! Right here:

"IH never had access to the customer’s area. At the end of the test, an expert hired by IH, insisted that it was important to know where the water came from and where it was used. The ERV explained that this had no importance."

The expert from I.H. insisted, but the ERV and Rossi refused. That customer was set up by Rossi's own lawyer. Rossi has the key to the room, and he has often been seen coming and going. Why do you think he will not let anyone in? If there was equipment in there consuming 1 MW of process heat, why would he not allow people to see it? It would instantly prove his claim is true!

Of course the equipment is important! It would irrefutably prove the issue one way or the other. If there is no 1 MW equipment, Rossi is lying. If there is equipment, you do not need to see any other proof. If Rossi and Penon actually believe this "had no importance" they are crazy. If they don't believe it they are lying.

Stop dancing around that issue. Stop making up pretend reasons why he would prevent people from going in there. Be honest with yourself and admit that this proves he is making it all up.

If anyone other than Rossi were to block access to the one thing that would instantly prove they are right, everyone would agree this has to be fraud.

Very strange statement from Jed Rothwell:

"Of course the equipment is important! It would irrefutably prove the issue one way or the other. "

Prove? It would only prove that some heat of unknown quantity was used for something. And that would say nothing about the e-cat plant heat claim.

What is needed, and what would "irrefutably prove the issue one way or the other. " is:
- a log of fluid pressure delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of fluid temperature delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of measured steam quality of fluid delivered from the e-cat
- A log of steam mass rate delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of fluid temperature at inlet to e-cat plant
- A log of fluid pressure at inlet of e-cat plant
- A log of fluid massrate at inlet of e-cat plant

With These data we will excactly be able to calculate heat produced by e-cat plant.

What the heat was used for is totally irrelevant. It could be used for nothing and just cooled and condensed for that matter.

What the heat was used for is very relevant. If anyone here were in the same position as AR and trying to score an $89 million pay-day, they would throw open the doors and boast about how much heat the customer was using for their operations. Why not just do that, and show the investors the heat being put to use and collect your check? There is no justifiable reason for the door to the customer to remain locked and inaccessible to Darden and others. Darden is the CEO of Industrial Heat. Doesn't he have the right to see the heat being put to use in an industrial setting? That's why they are in business. If I were Darden I would have kicked the door down.

First post here.

I have as many others been following the story since 2011 and been also as many others going back and forth regarding Rossis credibility.

At the moment I think that the polarization of the debate might be perhaps not correct. It is possible that the ecat works as Rossi describes but he might still be a fraudster.

Let say that the ecat works as stated and Rossi in person all along wanted the global control over the e-cat.

Still he needs money to get his robot factory's so he enters an agreement with IH. The structure of the agreement is so that he get money up front and time to develop his own factory and the Quark X ecat evolution. The fraud is not about a non working ecat it is about never transferring all of the necessary IP to IH.

Also the secret customer can also be a fraud. He needed the time and money but couldn't find a customer that believed enough in the ecat to actually integrate it in a real production process. Or a customer that was willing to keep a low profile. So he might have used a steam cooling system as the Italian 1 MW container test behind the wall and dissipated the heat in roof ventilation. It shouldn't matter because the ERV might be in on the secret feeling that the report would be correct anyhow.

This scenario might be complete nonsense but still it fits with almost all the facts publicly known.

oystla wrote: "Prove? It would only prove that some heat of unknown quantity was used for something. And that would say nothing about the e-cat plant heat claim."

The quantity would not be unknown. All commercially designed equipment that uses process heat lists the minimum and maximum amount of heat it uses. This is important safety information. Anyone familiar with such equipment can easily judge how much heat it is consuming at a given time. Not only can you judge this, you can measure it, with instruments and standard procedures such as sparging steam. All large industrial equipment in the state of Florida has to be tested periodically for safety purposes. That includes boilers. These tests tell you how much process heat the equipment is either generating or consuming.

There are thousands of qualified HVAC engineers and equipment engineers in Florida who are licensed to perform such tests. Any one of them could confirm the claim by examining the customer equipment. This confirmation would be in addition to the calorimetry performed on Rossi's heater itself. It would bolster the calorimetry in a way that would make the overall claim irrefutable.

Regarding that calorimetry, the numbers revealed by Rossi in the interview show that the fluid leaving the reactor was close to 100°C, as shown an analysis by Daniel Rocha. Rossi did not reveal the pressure because that would show that the fluid was water, not steam. The temperature was probably a little below 100°C. That eliminates most of the excess heat claimed by Rossi. Other mistakes in his analysis eliminate the rest. Thus, Rossi himself inadvertently showed there is no excess heat.

No sane expert in calorimetry would accept a result with the present arrangement where the steam goes out of one pipe, comes in another, and there is no access to what is on the other side of the wall. That is why the expert sent by I.H. insisted he must see the equipment.

oystla also wrote that the process heat "could be used for nothing and just cooled and condensed for that matter."

It cannot be used for nothing. Releasing 1 MW of heat in 6,500 sq. feet of enclosed warehouse space would heat the building enough to kill the occupants. There has to be heat removal and ventilation equipment. That is the case even if there is industrial equipment using 1 MW of process heat. Heat does not vanish. A tiny fraction of it is consumed in some endothermic process (such as cooking) but the rest comes out as waste heat. It has to be removed, by fans, air conditioners and other HVAC equipment. This equipment will also list the total cooling capacity on the faceplate and in the specifications. A licensed HVAC engineer can measure the performance of the equipment to see how much heat it is removing. In other words, you can measure the heat release at two stages: first at the industrial equipment that is consuming 1 MW of process heat, and second at the cooling equipment that is removing 1 MW of waste heat from the building. Both measurements would bolster the claim. The fact that Rossi would not allow either measurement proves that his claim is nonsense.

Quote from Keieueue

I am unsure about Rossi but what info apart from hearsay is available about a possible Rossi scam?

Plus he might really have just dissipated the heat away not having found a customer

I mean nothing in this whole story makes common sense so why not?

Keieueue I didn't say info regarding a possible Rossi scam, I was speaking to info regarding the case in general. While I personally do believe Rossi is pulling a scam, that isn't what I was talking about in reference to Dewey.

Quote from stephenrenzz

it is now known that Rossi uses MANY sock puppets on all of the forums. randombit0 is one of Rossi's characters on here. I can give you a full rundown on how to spot Rossi fake users, it is quite easy. If you don't believe me look around on the topic of all Rossi's fake users.

Name them or shut up forever hold your peace. I actually agree with you that Randombit0 might be Rossi. But until 15min ago, I was sure that you were a Dewey sock-puppet... So maybe that shows how reliable these sort of guesses are.

Quote from stephenrenzz

From what I see Dewey has provided WAY more actual fact regarding Rossi/IH situation that I have see you even speculate on.

Quote from stephenrenzz

but there have been many facts that Dewey has brought to light that have in fact been substantiated.

Quote from stephenrenzz

What does interest me about listening to Dewey is that he has put forth information that even the Rossi-camp has had to admit is true.

See what I'm getting at?! But rather than go down that rabbit-hole, lets take things a face value: In a pseudonymous environment, trust and truth is king. When someone tells obvious lies (link), it normally causes everything else they say be viewed as equally suspicious.

Quote from JedRothwell

I do not understand why anyone still believes Rossi. In the interview with Lewan, he came right out and said the whole test was fake. He didn't just admit it, he bragged about it! Right here:
"IH never had access to the customer’s area. At the end of the test, an expert hired by IH, insisted that it was important to know where the water came from and where it was used. The ERV explained that this had no importance."

Quote from JedRothwell

There are thousands of qualified HVAC engineers and equipment engineers in Florida who are licensed to perform such tests.

Quite a big jump in logic there from Rossi's quoted statement, to hold it up as the kind of "evidence" you claim it is.
Secondly, whilst "Oystler" is no doubt too humble to say it, he more than qualified to hold the much vaunted qualification of 'Florida HVAC engineer', in fact he could likely design from first principles, calibrate, and fit the necessary measurement equipment himself.

Quote from JedRothwell

It cannot be used for nothing. Releasing 1 MW of heat in 6,500 sq. feet of enclosed warehouse space would heat the building enough to kill the occupants. There has to be heat removal and ventilation equipment

Come on Jed! This kind of thing is on the Florida HVAC technicians exam!! You need at 500mm diameter flue, with a mechanical draught of 12m/s!!!
Your conjectures hold no weight... Back to your studies for another year I think. But keep trying: You'll get your HVAC licence eventually.

Quote from oystla

Prove? It would only prove that some heat of unknown quantity was used for something. And that would say nothing about the e-cat plant heat claim.

What is needed, and what would "irrefutably prove the issue one way or the other. " is:
- a log of fluid pressure delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of fluid temperature delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of measured steam quality of fluid delivered from the e-cat
- A log of steam mass rate delivered from the e-cat plant
- A log of fluid temperature at inlet to e-cat plant
- A log of fluid pressure at inlet of e-cat plant
- A log of fluid massrate at inlet of e-cat plant

With These data we will excactly be able to calculate heat produced by e-cat plant.

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It is not necessary to measure "fluid pressure at inlet of e-cat plant"
And (3) can be derived from (1), (2) and (4)

Quote from ozcar

First post here...

And as valid as (nearly) anyone else's, given the information available.

Quote from Tom Paulsen

But you are a moderator here, so if you think that the deletion of 5 comment in different threads just for today is ok, then I have to accept this and to ask myself, wether I'd like to participate in a censored forum, which doesn't allow me, to make my own judgment.

Before making such threats, one should question whether their contribution would actually be missed.

Quote from Alan Smith

Maybe we should have a 'Fuckwit of the Week' banner to apply to the posts of regular offenders.

As long as it's put to a public ballot :evilgrin:

They dance an old dance called "hey diddle-diddle",
And the members of the forum are played like a fiddle.

Quote from Keieueue

Quote from stephenrenzz: “
Keieueue I didn't say info regarding a possible Rossi scam, I was speaking to info regarding the case in general. While I personally do believe Rossi is pulling a scam, that isn't what I was talking about in reference to…

As I already mentioned in the original post, I am not interested in the troll bait of debating the actual fact points right now. You can do the research there on your own.

Quote from Slad

Quote from stephenrenzz: “it is now known that Rossi uses MANY sock puppets on all of the forums. randombit0 is one of Rossi's characters on here. I can give you a full rundown on how to spot Rossi fake users, it is quite easy. If you don't believe me…

Slad, you must be new to forums. No one will answer you nor take you serious if you create posts like this addressing everyone and their brothers all at once. Good luck with that.