I was wrong about Rossi, but what I fear most is that I might be partly right

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:


    Even if the flow meter was off by a factor of 10, the COP that was measured in light of the corrected flow would still meet the performance requirements defined by the licence agreement as follows: COP 50/10 = 5. A COP of 5 still meets the Performance spec defined in the licence agreement. The flow meter must be off by a factor of 13. Even spin must meet the constraints of logic.

    Axil, your post incorrectly attributes your reply to me. I have corrected that above.


    First of all, whether or not the ERV report shows that the test met formal requirements as stated in the Agreement, the central IH claim will be that Rossi did not perform on the core of the Agreement, but this is only necessary for them to show if the suit is not dismissed on the argument that IH did not agree to the GPT timing, and that is actually almost open and shut at this point. Rossi may claim estoppel, if the judge allows it at this point -- she might not -- but ... if there was a written agreement as explicitly required, Rossi may discover that just going ahead and doing whatever he pleased without getting IH to literally sign onto it, may have wasted a year of his time, even with a "successful" test. As I read the Agreement, IH and Rossi could still agree to a test, but this is very clear to me: before IH will pay -- and before, in fact, they could afford to pay -- Rossi will have to successfully teach them how to make devices that work without him camping in the container for a year, devices that work when independently tested, no fooling, no more excuses, no more "nobody-a would-a believe-a test-a in your landlord'sa facility-a, we need a truly ah independent-a customer in a Florida!" (if that happened, and I have seen no sign so far that Dewey is lying.)


    IH has not actually made the claim yet, they have not formally repudiated the ERV report. If they are going to do that, it would be in the Answer that they will file only if the suit is not dismissed. The first hint that something was awry with the Rossi-IH relationship was the press release at the beginning of March that nobody had the right to speak for IH who was not explicitly authorized. Planet Rossi went nuts over this, trying to figure out what it meant. But it was actually a very simple statement, continually ignored on Planet Rossi, which is constantly trying to figure out hidden meanings from far too little data. Rossi then probably lied -- no divorce --, but it doesn't really matter.


    Anyway, Axil, your comment is, to use the technical term, bullshit.


    You want to discuss the test itself. Okay, suppose the flowmeter is off by a factor of ten. There are other issues. A device like the 1 MW plant has thermal inertia. If you operate it in a certain way, it will continue to generate steam with no power input, or with much lower than average power input. Without test details, it is truly impossible to come to conclusions like you have stated. You have taken a rumor, possibly about peak power and converted it to average power.


    This is common on Planet Rossi, and it's a very easy trap to fall into. Rumors are repeated over and over until they take on the color of accepted fact, without independent corroboration, and often original attribution is lost. A hilarious example of that took place a few days ago where a casual comment by Dewey triggered a response by Rossi that "IH men" had offered to sell the license back to him (though his language was confused, that's obviously what he meant, and then that became a thread on -- okay, I'm falling into the trope - Escat World claiming that IH had made an offer, which then came back here from there, again, as that. And this did not immediately go away when the silliness was pointed out. Sifferkoll and Rossi believe that corporations and officers and people associated with them are all the same entity, so if Dewey says something, then IH has said it. If Darden tells Rossi that they could pay $100 million because they are from Cherokee, which is a $2.2 billion corporation, therefore Cherokee is backing Darden. Darden was not lying, but the meaning was different from how Rossi claims to have taken it: the meaning was that these are the circles they move in and for them to raise $100 million if needed was S.O.P.


    We hear or read something, we interpret it, and it is very normal to them remember what we think it meant, rather than what was actually said, and thus the "telephone game" which actually is not only about people-to-people communication, but happens internally as well.

  • There are multiple factors that go into determining culpability in the mismeasurement associated with the test results. IH must prove that Rossi intentionally and actively caused the flow meter to be mismeasuring the flow by an order of magnitude.


    Not at all. They only need to bring out some expert witness licensed HVAC engineers who testify that the methods do not work and the results are invalid, so there is no excess heat.


    I.H. is not suing Rossi for fraud. They do not need to prove that. Even if he is a fraud, that has no relevance to this case. Rossi is suing them because he claims the gadget works. If it does not work, he has no case.


    I do not know much about lawsuits, but I see nothing in this lawsuit alleging that Rossi is a fraud. If that comes up, I suppose it would be in a different civil lawsuit filed by I.H. against Rossi, or it would be a criminal case filed by Florida or Uncle Sam against Rossi.

  • Axil - you continue to prognosticate from a factless position. Why?


    Jed and I have a disagreement about the way the test is judged. Jed requires perfection in absolute terms in the manner of how the test was performed. I site section 4 and reaffirmed in section 5 of the licence agreement that states that the judgement of the ERV is deemed to be the absolute arbiter of the test regardless of any monday morning quarterbacking that may occur.


    In the simplest terms, fact doesn't matter, what matters is the judgement of the ERV that defines when IH pays Rossi. My high regard for Jed forces me to save him from invalid thinking. I am trying to preserve Jud's place in history. That is the least that a person can do for the Pope and leading icon of LENR. It looks like you are doing the same thing for your friends at IH in the full certainty of your opinion.

  • Quote from "Jed the lier"

    You need to stop repeating things which you know to be untrue. It is annoying, and it makes you look foolish.


    Well, what Axil says is true and you are a XXXXXXX lier. That is the simple truth. And you know it...
    (missing signatures are the reason for not even mentioning the test in the MTD)


    And these kind of hints threats that you keep doing make you looked more paid than played...

  • Quote from "Jed"

    Not at all. They only need to bring out some expert witness licensed HVAC engineers who testify that the methods do not work and the results are invalid, so there is no excess heat.


    Well they contracted an ERV for this purpose that they both agreed on. You might be paid to slander him, but that doesn't change that fact.

  • Quote

    The problems might be caused deliberately and fraudulently, the way they were at Defkalion. Or they might simply be caused by stupidity.

    But Rossi is not stupid and he had more than five years to work it out with Focardi and Levi to help, not to mention the Swedish professors. A *single* properly done calibration *anywhere* along the process of multiple demos and experiments would have revealed that the ecat does not work. Why do you think Rossi always refused these? Nobody is THAT stupid (except maybe Levi). That leaves only the word-which-starts-with-F-that-Alan-Smith-likes-to-delete.

  • Another straw man argument! I didn't judge Rossi by one character trait. Newton, Einstein, etc. were geniuses with a plethora of spectacular achievements AND character flaws. Rossi is a jackass with character flaws. The only thing he ever accomplished . . .


    Maybe. Then again, it is possible he actually had excess heat devices years ago. I know that you rule that out. The problem is, your criterion for ruling that out appears to be Rossi's personality. I do not think you have looked at all of the technical data. My point is that even if Rossi's personality were as bad as Robert Stroud's, part of his science might still be valid. Stroud's science has held up magnificently.


    You cannot judge a scientific claim by looking at the claimant's personality. You can guess at the validity of a claim by that criterion. You might be right, because criminal slimeballs and homicidal lunatics such as Stroud often lie, after all. But you can't be sure.


    Along the same lines, you have ruled out Parkhamov because he stuffed fake data into his graph. This is, indeed, a valid reason to rule out a scientist. What he did is against the rules, unethical and stupid. So your reason for dismissing him is valid. BUT there may be other reasons to go back, reconsider, and look at him again. He might be right this time, even thought he faked it last time. People can be dishonest sometimes, yet honest later on. You seem incapable of understanding that people are complicated and a judgement based on personality or ethics must be provisional and subject to change. It is a mistake to shut the door and refuse to take a second look.

  • But Rossi is not stupid and he had more than five years to work it out with Focardi and Levi to help . . .


    I have often seen smart people do extraordinarily stupid things. I have seen that in cold fusion, in the computer business, and elsewhere. For example, the ultra-smart computer experts at DEC, Data General, Wang and the other minicomputer companies stood by and did nothing when personal computers came along, so they all went out of business. I knew those companies well. I used their products. DEC was the second largest computer company, as I recall. The founder and managers were world class geniuses in business and computing. They could easily have become leading players in the microcomputer business, both hardware and software. Yet they made inexplicable mistakes, and they stood by as if paralyzed while market forces and new technology tore their companies to shreds.


    History is full of similar examples. See the book, "The March of Folly." See also Othello, Hamlet and Macbeth.

  • I know I'm not a rightful human being but please may I not be reincarnated as someone whose destiny it is to write scripts for social engineering aimed at suppressing info, or as a person who has to propagate them

  • Scale Does Not Matter! Not at this stage of the research.


    I agree with this basic statement. But what does matter is COP, and as noted, control and reproducibility. A LENR experiment of any scale large or small with a COP of less than say, 4, is a non-starter in a commercial sense. And I doubt that the $50 mill was invested on such basis.

  • Well they contracted an ERV for this purpose that they both agreed on. You might be paid to slander him, but that doesn't change that fact.


    Has it not occurred to you that the ERV might have failed to do the job right? Read his previous paper and you will see that he is . . . several bits short of a byte, as I said:


    http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-co…09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf


    It makes no difference who agreed to what, if the final report is full of ridiculous mistakes and obviously invalid. No one pays for contracted work when the job is not done properly.


    Suppose you commission a contractor to build a house in the state of Florida. You sign an agreement committing to pay, obviously. Six months later the contractor says the house is finished and he demands the money. You go to the site and you find a hole in the ground and a pile of rotting lumber. No judge will say "you signed a contract, the contractor says it is finished, so you have to pay." It never works that way. The ERV report cannot overrule common sense. It cannot overrule the testimony of licensed experts in Florida if they say the reactor did not produce excess heat. Any licensed expert who testifies that the device did work will be committing perjury and will risk losing his license and livelihood. I doubt Rossi will find one who will run that risk.


    Penon is not licensed in Florida and not qualified to testify as an expert witness. He does not understand the first thing about calorimetry. I do not know how these things work. Perhaps he will testify anyway, because he is central to the case. But I am sure that any real expert will blow him out of the water and show that his report is a farce.

  • But what does matter is COP, and as noted, control and reproducibility. A LENR experiment of any scale large or small with a COP of less than say, 4, is a non-starter in a commercial sense.


    Nope. The COP does not make a dime's worth of difference. Once you learn to control the reaction you can ramp the COP up to any level you like. You can make it infinite, in heat after death. Even now, with the electrochemical experiments, an electrochemist can easily increase the COP. They do not do that because the needed modifications are annoying and they interfere with other aspects of the experiment. Mainly you decrease the distance between the anode and cathode.


    And I doubt that the $50 mill was invested on such basis.


    Anyone who would not invest $50 million in a stable, controllable cold fusion reaction would be a world-class idiot, as stupid as the oh-so-smart people who drove DEC and Data General into bankruptcy when they might have owned the microcomputer business.


    The COP is the least important parameter.


    For someone to forgo an investment in cold fusion because the COP is low would be like not investing in microcomputers in 1980 because you do not like the design of the faceplate, or not investing in Google because you do not like their logo. To take a somewhat more realistic example from history, it would be like not investing in transistors in 1952 because they were very weak, slow, extremely unreliable, and they cost about 100 times more than vacuum tube devices that did the same thing (in one example, $16 versus about 10 cents). That was not a valid reason to ignore transistors.


    Many companies run by smart people did ignore transistors. They all went out of business.

  • Quote from "Jed"

    Penon is not licensed in Florida and not qualified to testify as an expert witness. He does not understand the first thing about calorimetry. I do not know how these things work. Perhaps he will testify anyway, because he is central to the case. But I am sure that any real expert will blow him out of the water and show that his report is a farce.


    It is however absolutely clear that the Jones drones are doing everything they possibly can to keep the ERV and Penon and the MW test out of the court. Wonder why?


    Quote from "Jed"

    It makes no difference who agreed to what, if the final report is full of ridiculous mistakes and obviously invalid.


    Firstly, It is not, and you know that. Secondly, it makes a huge difference that they agreed on Penon, since he was/is the ERV for both the validation and performance test.

  • I know I'm not a rightful human being but please may I not be reincarnated as someone whose destiny it is to write scripts for social engineering aimed at suppressing info, or as a person who has to propagate them


    Why not? You are doing a fabulous job now. Here you are championing Rossi. He nearly destroyed cold fusion, and by his actions he has deprived legitimate researchers of millions of dollars in funding. He and his acolytes such as you almost destroyed the most important technological breakthrough in history. He did it for profit. You do it because . . . I do not know why. I suppose it is because you do not understand technology or calorimetry and you have no common sense.


    You and Rossi are the worst enemies of cold fusion.

  • Firstly, It is not [full of ridiculous mistakes], and you know that.


    How the hell would you know?!? Have you read the report? Have you seen any data from it? I have. You have not. You know nothing. Don't pretend otherwise.


    Who do you think you are anyway? Or what do you think you are -- magically capable of knowing about data you have not seen? Are you claiming to be God omniscient? If not, stop making a fool of yourself by making claims that anyone can see are ridiculous and unfounded, about things you cannot possibly know.

  • Quote from "Jed"

    How the hell would you know?!? Have you read the report? Have you seen any data from it? I have. You have not. You know nothing. Don't pretend otherwise.Who do you think you are anyway? Or what do you think you are -- magically capable of knowing about data you have not seen?


    Well, YOU don't know, do you? You however started this "I know something you dont game" ... We all know that. And as we all know as well; Mats has seen more of the ERV report than you have - that is a fact.


    Quote from "Jed the Omniscient"

    Are you claiming to be God omniscient? If not, stop making a fool of yourself by making claims that anyone can see are ridiculous and unfounded, about things you cannot possibly know.


    Wow. I'm glad you finally found a mirror to look in ;)

  • Well they contracted an ERV for this purpose that they both agreed on. You might be paid to slander him, but that doesn't change that fact.

    Sifferkoll keeps repeating this piece of deception. The reality: the Agreement provided that the ERV was to be selected by Rossi. No substitution could take place without the permission of Rossi. I can be argued that they accepted the designation when they accepted the Agreement, but that they "both agreed on" Penon creates an impression that may not be accurate at all. They did not select Penon.


    Nobody here is being paid to slander anyone, and, besides, it would be libel, not slander. Sifferkoll is not paid, I'm sure. He's just an obsessed Aspie who has not learned to factor for the disability, and who then asserts his fevered imagination as fact. Implying that Jed is paid to write here is utterly preposterous. If IH is going to pay someone, it will be an expert witness in a trial, where it might actually make a difference.

  • He nearly destroyed cold fusion


    With all due respect Jed (and I do respect what you have done for LENR over the years)--Hogwash. I've been a cold fusion aficionado since the fateful 1989 announcement. The sentiment was like a damp rag in 2011. Aside from the small bump in 2009 due to the 60 minutes episode, almost nobody (outside of the most dedicated LENR followers) were paying a single flip about anything in this space. And now? We have the MFMP. We have multiple universities in the U.S. with fully funded LENR research divisions. We have Russian and Chinese scientists conducting more experiments than ever before, and frequently publishing their results. We have the Indian government once again backing research efforts. We have organizations in Europe, Japan, and elsewhere pursuing LENR+ commercialization efforts. Rossi was the best thing that has ever happened to cold fusion, even if he is wrong.

  • Quote from "FUD by Abd"

    the Agreement provided that the ERV was to be selected by Rossi.


    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax keeps repeating this piece of deception. The reality: ... ... ...

  • I think Defkalion's problem was deliberate, based on what Gambarale wrote.


    They replicated the Rascal effect. X( (Krivit-type emoji for the Rascal; compare with pic below) They indeed did figure it out just like they said, but not like we hoped.


    The problems might be caused deliberately and fraudulently, the way they were at Defkalion. Or they might simply be caused by stupidity. I myself have made large errors in calorimetry, both small scale and large scale. This was not deliberate; I made stupid mistakes. Fortunately, I found them and corrected them. The point is, stupid mistakes are common and cannot be ruled out.


    It is a lot easier to make mistakes than it is to make LENR work. I made plenty myself. The question is whether a person can tell the truth about it when it is discovered, which you do. If Dewey is correct, that Penon stopped responding to IH inquiries early this year, that implies either complicity, the Rascal convinced him that IH had it in for them both, or he was unwilling to admit his mistake. According to the Rascal, it can't be the last two since there was supposedly not a peep of a problem until the last report. If true, why would Penon stop responding to IH such a long time before the final report? If false, this is yet another lie of the Rascal. Either way, it looks bad for Penon and Rascal.


    emoji IRL

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