Industrial Heat Amends Answer to Rossi’s Complaint on Aug 11th

Quote from STDM

The testing of 10kW low temperature e-cat is basic science.

I wish it was! That would make all of this so much easier. In a sane situation, you'd take a test that is criticized, and you'd do it over, taking any steps necessary to address the criticisms. And then you'd do it again. In an even saner situation, you'd have the thing tested as a black box by a laboratory that had no connection to Rossi. Instead we have a series of tests which have been impugned on various grounds and whose gaps were not filled in.

Quote from STDM

The first step in an arrangement with Rossi is to test that device. If you want to accuse Rossi of fraud you have to explain how he does it.

I have not accused Rossi of fraud. IH have, and they've set out the reasons in their Answer. You should take a look if you have not already. You might not find their reasons persuasive. That is a different matter.

Quote from STDM

In the last 5 years nobody here can explain how he deceived people in letting professionals measure a COP of 6.

Although this statement is too general to trace back to a specific test, let's assume for the moment that it's true. The next step, then, would be to follow up with further testing to address any complaints. Rossi is under no obligation to do this. But neither should he be surprised about the present outcome for making a big claim and then people complaining about it.

Quote from STDM

Gullible in what way?

Mats Lewan is overly hopeful and is not objective at this point. He and the Swedish team that did the Lugano test do not appear to be open to the possibility that they've made mistakes, at least not publicly. Hydrofusion is the most gullible, as they continue to court Rossi after evidence coming to light (an email from Rossi, which is an exhibit to the IH Answer) that he intentionally manipulated a test with them in order to scare them enough to back out of the deal, so that Rossi could proceed unencumbered to enter into a contract with IH. If I were them, I'd swiftly cut ties with Rossi.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Are you also willing to state that there was no chimney of any kind, at any time?

Are you suggesting there was a chimney, but Rossi snatched it away in the dead of night just before people visited? Why would someone hide a chimney? Where did the heat go when it wasn't there?

Perhaps it was an invisible chimney.

This conversation is surrealistic, not to mention ludicrous.

There WAS no chimney. There IS no chimney. It would be readily apparent to all observers if there were a chimney.

Quote from Mary Yugo

If it were without sanctions to ignore a subpoena, why would anyone bother with them?

Because:

Quote

If you ignore the summons and don't file an answer to the complaint (the complaint is the lawsuit attached to the summons) within the time set forth in the summons and serve a copy by mail on the opposing party or the opposing party's attorney, the opposing party will have a default judgment entered against you. Judgment by default means you will have lost the case.

http://ask-a-lawyer.freeadvice…appen-if-i-ign-108190.htm

Quote from Eric Walker

they continue to court Rossi after evidence coming to light (an email from Rossi, which is an exhibit to the IH Answer) that he intentionally manipulated a test with them in order to scare them enough to back out of the deal, so that Rossi could proceed unencumbered to enter into a contract with IH. If I were them, I'd swiftly cut ties to Rossi.

The fact that Hydro Fusion continue with Leonardo even after the revelation that Rossi intentionally caused the first test with them to fail, is an intriguing situation, which tends to bolster Rossi's position at this time. I'm pretty sure that is why Darden did all that he could to try and break up the relationship.

Quote from IH Fanboy

The fact that Hydro Fusion continue with Leonardo even after the revelation that Rossi intentionally caused the first test with them to fail, is an intriguing situation, which tends to bolster Rossi's position at this time. I'm pretty sure that is why Darden did all that he could to try and break up the relationship.

It is more plausibly a cautionary tale about how people can allow hope to cloud their judgment, even against clear evidence that they should to a U-turn and run. As we've seen, there have been some posters here whose judgment is so thoroughly clouded by hope that Rossi has made a breakthrough in LENR that they see conspiracies everywhere and cannot even seem to appreciate that IH might be sincere.

I know nothing about what Darden has done to try to break up the relationship between Rossi and Hydrofusion, apart, perhaps, from introducing that email as an exhibit, which I think would have been very useful information for them.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Depending on
the type of sponge (fine powder or honeycomb chunks) the mixture
requires heating to 90C and maintaining for many hours. Some of the
"multiple boil" processes will require repeating this procedure.

This does not make the heat vanish away. When you heat something for many hours, you have to keep adding heat to it. When you stop heating, it cools down. That is because the heat is escaping into the surroundings. The rate at which it escapes depends on the temperature and the quality of insulation, but in the end, all of it always escapes.

This "sponge" idea sounds like the "sauna" hypothesis that someone proposed. Rossi is "capturing" the heat in a sauna. First, he would need not 1 but 167 saunas. Second, what happens to a sauna after you turn off the heat, or let the flame die? It cools down! And where does the heat go? Into the surroundings. So, if Rossi has 167 saunas hidden in J.M. Chemicals site, as the saunas reach the temperature you set them for, they radiate more and more heat into the building. Eventually you have the same 1 MW heat flux you would have without the saunas. Sometime later, after you turn off the power and the saunas cool, every joule of heat you put into them has come out. A sauna or a sponge does not magically cause heat to vanish. It does not violate the conservation of energy.

Quote from MrSelfSustain

So are you absolutely sure there are no endothermic industrial processes that could have been using low temperature steam as a heat source with high efficiency?

How high would that efficiency be? 200%?

Yes, I am quite sure. I have some elementary knowledge of physics and industry. There are no factories caked with ice because they absorb heat from the surroundings. If there were, we would know about them. If they are cold it is thanks to refrigeration, which means another part of the surroundings are hotter.

There are, of course, storage tanks in factories caked with ice. They are filled with cold fluids. Propane gas tanks get covered with frost when you burn the gas. The one I use with my barbecue grill does in the Atlanta climate even in summer. That's Boyle's law.

I suggest you read about endothermic processes.

Quote from Eric Walker

It is more plausibly a cautionary tale about how people can allow hope to cloud their judgment, even against clear evidence that they should to a U-turn and run.

That might be the case. It also might be the case that Hydro Fusion knows something that we don't.

Quote from Eric Walker

As we've seen, there have been some posters here whose judgment is so thoroughly clouded by hope that Rossi has made a breakthrough in LENR that they see conspiracies everywhere and cannot even seem to appreciate that IH might be sincere.

IH is the one conjuring up conspiracy theories that require the tacit participation of quite a large group of people, including a registered attorney.

Quote from Eric Walker

I know nothing about what Darden has done to try to break up the relationship between Rossi and Hydrofusion, apart, perhaps, from introducing that email as an exhibit, which I think would have been very useful information for them.

Many have stated, including Dewey, that Darden flew to Europe to attempt to persuade the Swedish folks to abandon their relationship with Rossi.

Quote from Eric Walker

I know nothing about what Darden has done to try to break up the relationship between Rossi and Hydrofusion, apart, perhaps, from introducing that email as an exhibit, which I think would have been very useful information for them.

It most likely was a flight of humanity!

Safe the world of even more 1MW reactor waste. This is a counter position to the Neapolitanian Mafia one which would like to have it...

Quote from IH Fanboy

Many have stated, including Dewey, that Darden flew to Europe to attempt to persuade the Swedish folks to abandon their relationship with Rossi.

Perhaps it is a good time to review the exchange that starts here:

"Tom Darden has visited the Lugano Scientists in Sweden not long ago, and the information he gave them made them very confused and now they don't know what to belive. Tom Darden told them some thing like "there is no production" This is information that i got after a brief talk to Mats Lewan on the phone, I don't know if Darden meant that ther never was any production in the factory ore not? This is of course information that Mats Lewan got from the Swedish scientists. I don't know how much more information Mats Lewan got. But i know that all involved parts feel very unsure right now. I know that for just a couple of months ago the sweds didn't missbelive anything. So very bad information has been deliverd..."
- ECW, Monday May 9, 2016
http://disq.us/p/183jbda

Quote from STDM

If you want to accuse Rossi of fraud you have to explain how he does it. In the last 5 years nobody here can explain how he deceived people in letting professionals measure a COP of 6.

Which test are you quoting as providing such evidence? It is worth remembering that the two professionals other than Rossi most involved have been discredited:

Levi: when challenged persisting in incorrect science re Lugano. Also reported on an impossible flow rate in one of the early experiments given the pump specification (though I rely on Ascoli for that, it seemed correct when I checked, but I admit myself to some vagueness as to which of those early tests reported only by Levi was which).

Penon: allowed an appallingly bad report to be published under his name early on, and (unless IH is directly lying) refused to answer his employer when asked reasonable questions about the recent test.

Both Levi and (it seems very likely, given location) Penon were selected by Rossi and therefore not independent.

What does pinball have to do with coffee makers?

Quote from THHuxley

refused to answer his employer when asked reasonable questions about the recent test.

While we don't (yet) have access to the agreement between Penon and IH, I would be very surprised if IH was Penon's employer. It is much more likely that Penon was an independent contractor. His obligations would be set forth in the agreement.

Quote from IH Fanboy

IH is the one conjuring up conspiracy theories that require the tacit participation of quite a large group of people, including a registered attorney.

That's a small group, not a large one. There are only 5 people involved, including Mr. Bass. When you stand to gain $89 million by fraud, you can afford a conspiracy of this size. If Rossi promised each of them $1 million he would hardly miss the money.

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That's a small group, not a large one. There are only 5 people involved, including Mr. Bass. When you stand to gain $89 million by fraud, you can afford a conspiracy of this size. If Rossi promised each of them $1 million he would hardly miss the money.

Also they are all natural allies, chosen by Rossi so to be. Rossi's lawyer BTW does not appear to have lied in this. What he has said is very likely true.

He may still be liable as an enabler of fraud. I don't know how the law works in such matters.

Quote from MrSelfSustain

So are you absolutely sure there are no endothermic industrial processes that could have been using low temperature steam as a heat source with high efficiency?

With all the various chemicals and reactions known to man, I'd be very hesitant to say there are none that fit the parameters.

You have many contacts in the science world. Would you contact a couple chemists and ask them?

Frank Acland
August 12, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Dear Andrea,

When you say that the Customer “used the heat” does this mean that the manufacturing process was endothermic — i.e. the heat delivered by the E-Cat was absorbed in the customer’s production process.

Thank you,

Frank Acland

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Andrea Rossi
August 13, 2016 at 7:13 AM
Frank Acland:
Yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.