Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • So jt, we’re still waiting for you to make even one substantive statement in support of Rossi. So far, all we have heard is whining about people’s negativity and how awful skeptics are. So why do you think Rossi is legit? Demonstrate how you make sense unlike the rest of us.

  • You, see. I certainly don't believe this to be a "fact" and since I also do believe it to be a fact that you don't know this for sure (but do not hesitate to state it anyway) the labels you use are more suited for yourself.

    jt,


    What would he have to do to convince you he is the scientist that he is and when?


    If you care to look back at over 8 years of his lies, deceits, extravagant claims, fraudulent statements, fake documents, non existent customers, manipulated data etc, you too, being a reasonably intelligent person would say the same.


    I, on the other hand am not as you suggest.

    35 years with mechanical/electrical global energy engineering companies, member of IEEE/AEE/CEM.

    UL, DOE, DOD, GSA, Fermi, Argonne, Oak Ridge, specification steering committee for EPact 2005 etc, etc, etc.

    No one on the planet works like Rossi, and after 8 years of his charade, I have seen, heard enough.

    When Rossi is long gone and the Ecat or all of its variants are nothing but whispers having never produced a measurable milliwattnanosecond of energy, what will you say then?

  • Rossi scores a nice own goal... :-)


    Question was (probably by himself):


    4. If a car brand advertised that a certain model could run for 20000 miles without refueling, due to a proprietary new and yet unknown and undisclosed phenomenon, but sealed the actual performances of such car behind a strong NDA, would you buy that car?


    His answer:

    4- if it works, yes


    So here is the reason , why no one knows a customer or hasn’t seen sales of an Ecat yet, given by the master himself: Because the damn thing doesn’t work 😁

  • What would he have to do to convince you he is the scientist that he is and when?


    Sorry about interrupting this discussion, but I see the current HaaS business plan of selling heat to customers as brilliant and at some point not too far away; hopefully someone will speak out or enough information leaks about cost/energy savings etc - and in the end it will be (almost) undeniable. It of course has nothing to do with science (Rossi is no scientist) - only business, and at least I agree with Rossi - that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature). Keeping a low key in the beginning is probably smart for the same reasons.


    As long as his "sales demo" gives him, lets say 50-100 hot leads, that end up in 10-20 pilots in each country (Japan, Sweden and US) within a year or so. Then "word of mouth" will do all the marketing he needs. At the same time as these companies become more profitable, you will still be as skeptical here and deny that it is happening due to lack of information (it is probable you are doing it now with one custumer - so you will do it with 10 as well).


    Kind of ironic, that the focus on "science" in the end makes this place (and science community at large) the last place where the reality sinks in - and at that time hundreds of customers are already using it to save money. I absolutely love that idea.

  • "... that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature).." - no, it is Rossi's way of doing business since many years.


    You seem to be ignoring an important fact, that has been explained here many times: HaaS will remain a nice fairy tale - as long as the heat comes from a non-certified blue box in the basement...Rossi could have easily provided in his recent DPS e.g. a UL or any other certificate that is a must have. Without it is simply illegal...I know, Rossi said he has a certificate and Frank Ackland shows all over his place the new ECat SK ad that says "certified for industrial use"...

    And: have you ever thought of a 40MW heat installation that is being discussed? DO the math and check how many blue boxes, controllers, piping & plumbing would be necessary...what a mess!

  • "... that this is the best way to go aboiut it (due to the disruptive nature).." - no, it is Rossi's way of doing business since many years.


    You seem to be ignoring an important fact, that has been explained here many times: HaaS will remain a nice fairy tale - as long as the heat comes from a non-certified blue box in the basement...Rossi could have easily provided in his recent DPS e.g. a UL or any other certificate that is a must have. Without it is simply illegal...I know, Rossi said he has a certificate and Frank Ackland shows all over his place the new ECat SK ad that says "certified for industrial use"...

    And: have you ever thought of a 40MW heat installation that is being discussed? DO the math and check how many blue boxes, controllers, piping & plumbing would be necessary...what a mess!


    Exactly. As I said. It could well be considered a fairy tale by you guys even beyond the 100th customer. You perfectly describes the mindset needed for that to happen.

  • What would be then your mindset on how this can or could happen? What is your point of no return, that your hero is right or wrong in this Rossi saga since 2011?

    No one on earth except Rossi (not even Mats Lewan nor Frank Ackland have a clue) seem to know where the heck Rossi' current SK customer is nor his many other ECat customers he claimed to have in the past 7 years? Of course, there are customers, because Rossi said so.

    This is the difference, people here discussing facts (we all know) and are trying to explain why Rossi is wrong or a liar. Your philosophy is simply Rossi is always right - probably until he and his "products" and promises of a new fire and a better world will have disappeared in the abyss...


    Edit: comment from Rossi on his JONP, which fits to his common history of dumping an actual E-Cat, that is ready for sale, for another more powerful and more effiecient device (as predicted here long ago...)


    "While the Ecat QX’s c.p. was not enough reliable to be delivered to a Client, the SK’s is.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R."


    So we have to wait and see what will be his next big invention, as said already above by SOT (Next Great Thing That Doesn't Work (NGTTDWtm) :-)

  • What would be then your mindset on how this can or could happen? What is your point of no return, that your hero is right or wrong in this Rossi saga since 2011?

    No one on earth except Rossi (not even Mats Lewan nor Frank Ackland have a clue) seem to know where the heck Rossi' current SK customer is nor his many other ECat customers he claimed to have in the past 7 years? Of course, there are customers, because Rossi said so.

    This is the difference, people here discussing facts (we all know) and are trying to explain why Rossi is wrong or a liar. Your philosophy is simply Rossi is always right - probably until he and his "products" and promises of a new fire and a better world will have disappeared in the abyss...


    There is no point of no return. There's just a bumpy road ahead. Work to be done. Rossi could fail for any number of reasons; not having the goods is in my opinion one of the less likely ones. If so happens there will still be loads of important work to done. To work against something with considerable energy like you and others do here is a miserable mindset. Where's the upside in that?


    And having a clue is not binary. Some; like Lewan and Acland, for obvious reasons, have considerably more clues than you have. As for facts; you dont have any (at least not the way you try to make it out) - most of it is guesswork and opinions; sometimes based on extrapolated indications and seemable "patterns", but mostly just extremely biased personal opionions - trying to fit small pieces of information into existing preconceptions - ignoring everything else.


    But as I said. It doesn't matter. My prognosis stands - even when there's 100 customers using ECats in their businesses to save money and environment - you will continue to argue the way you do today. It's probably a genetic "feature" you have... ;)

  • . It could well be considered a fairy tale by you guys even beyond the 100th customer.


    I respectfully disagree. If even one legitimate customer steps forward with a testimonial that his SK is plugged into a wall socket, and has been reliably providing 20kW's heat, it will open some eyes around here. Mine for sure. Make that 100 customers, and many of us will jump back on the Rossi bandwagon. That many would also attract the real science media also, and not just an article in Aftenposten.

  • I respectfully disagree. If even one legitimate customer steps forward with a testimonial that his SK is plugged into a wall socket, and has been reliably providing 20kW's heat, it will open some eyes around here. Mine for sure. Make that 100 customers, and many of us will jump back on the Rossi bandwagon. That many would also attract the real science media also, and not just an article in Aftenposten.


    I hope you're right - and you might be - 100 is a lot .


    But, I can see a scenario though, where 100 customers with 100 NDAs only spreading information mouth to mouth as rumors and leaks. And I'm sure there could be found almost limitless of customers with heating needs, who are not "legitimate" enough in the eyes of people around here, and also do not see any immidiate need to make a public testamonial (for any number of reasons) - I mean these are probably customers that are friends of friends of a friend of someone who's been on the Rossi bandwagon for years - which in itself would disqualify them here I guess. The number of fraud scenarions that can be made up and the creativity of those making them is endless ... No of customers is a finite number, and in comparison very small...

  • I doubt whether 100 people would accept this deal for the reasons already provided, but if there are, odds are someone is going to talk. Can't keep that many people quiet. Especially considering many of them will be save the planet types like us. Rossi said they are free to do so whenever they want, and that his NDA requirement is non-binding. Question is: how long with no testimonials do we say BS?

  • There is no point of no return. There's just a bumpy road ahead. Work to be done. Rossi could fail for any number of reasons; not having the goods is in my opinion one of the less likely ones. If so happens there will still be loads of important work to done. To work against something with considerable energy like you and others do here is a miserable mindset. Where's the upside in that?


    And having a clue is not binary. Some; like Lewan and Acland, for obvious reasons, have considerably more clues than you have. As for facts; you dont have any (at least not the way you try to make it out) - most of it is guesswork and opinions; sometimes based on extrapolated indications and seemable "patterns", but mostly just extremely biased personal opionions - trying to fit small pieces of information into existing preconceptions - ignoring everything else.


    But as I said. It doesn't matter. My prognosis stands - even when there's 100 customers using ECats in their businesses to save money and environment - you will continue to argue the way you do today. It's probably a genetic "feature" you have... ;)

    Nice compilation, but you lack still any objective fact or any piece of evidence, other than "Rossisays". The prerecorded video and his miserable presentation did not provide such evidence, but raised more quesitons and doubts. Everybody was hoping to hear or see at least the name of his "one of the highest echelons in industry"... :-(

  • I think it unlikely you will hear a name, but I would not be the slightest bit surprised if some very serious players have been by, if only for a 'lookie-loo'.

    And I think it’s unlikely that we will hear a “highest echelons” name, because in case that any serious player would have followed Rossi’s latest “demo”, they should be too much embarrassed now to admit that they ever took him seriously.

  • And I think it’s unlikely that we will hear a “highest echelons” name, because in case that any serious player would have followed Rossi’s latest “demo”, they should be too much embarrassed now to admit that they ever took him seriously.

    If you are a real business man you do not worry about being embarrassed.You look to ways

    to save money for your business.

    If they have a business with high

    heating costs they would be calling

    Rossi.

    Rossi said he is selling E-Cat SK in Japan.After the fukushima disaster

    they should be keen to announce

    they have a new energy product.

  • After the fukushima disaster


    they should be keen to announce

    they have a new energy product.


    After a conventional nuclear reactor fails catastrophically, they should be keen to announce they are using a totally untested nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles and that the inventor claims irradiated him and made him sick. Sure.

  • A: Hey boss! You know that new energy source I found out about online? They're now taking orders and I think we should give it a try.


    B: Is that the one based on cold fusion you told me about? Still seems unlikely.


    A: No actually it's Low Energy Nuclear Reactions now. Completely different thing. Scientists backing it and everything.


    B: Mmm. Nuclear? You sure this is something we can use?


    A: Sure - the inventor says it's been certified and everything.


    B: OK get Legal to check it out. Meanwhile have you got some spec sheets for me?


    A: Not right now. The product launch was on video.


    B: OK drop me the link on email and I'll take a look.


    (a few minutes later)


    B: You must have sent me the wrong link. I clicked it and some puppets came up.


    A: Actually that's the one. That's just the inventor's sense of humour. You probably only watched a few minutes - you need to watch the other two hours as well.


    A: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Nice one A, you had me going there. Now get back to work before I fire you.


    A: Really Boss, I was being serious. Watch the other 2 hours and you'll see - there's an amazing plasma ballerina putting out the power and it's all being measured scientifically.

    B: WTF do ballerinas have to do with it? Anyway - 2 hours? I'm not wasting my time on that - do me a summary of the main specs, costs, delivery timescale, commercial terms and have it on my desk tomorrow and I'll take a look.


    A: Actually that stuff is not actually released yet. We need to submit our company to vetting by the inventor to see if we're suitable. And sign an NDA. Then he'll tell us the details.


    B: Seriously?


    A: Yes, it's so that there won't be too much interest because it's such an amazing deal.

    B: But that video is actually from the people promoting this device?


    A: Yes, it is - they're not interested in flashy presentation.


    B: Well they're clearly not interested in my business if that's their idea of a product presentation.


    A: Boss, wait! We could be in on the ground floor of this, and cut our energy costs in half or even better!


    B: Based on what? That joker in the video?


    A: He's actually an amazing inventor. Google him!


    B: OK I will but you'd better not be wasting my time.


    (a bit later)


    B: A! Get in here. Honestly I thought you had some common sense about you but looks like I was wrong. So I googled this Rossi guy and guess what comes up - all sorts of stuff about con-men and lawsuits. So I phoned my golf buddy who worked with a guy who worked at Industrial Heat and he put me straight. It's all complete fantasy! The only people who still believe in it is some fringe forums on the internet. And you actually got taken in by this ridiculous charade? YOU'RE FIRED!

  • After a conventional nuclear reactor fails catastrophically, they should be keen to announce they are using a totally untested nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles and that the inventor claims irradiated him and made him sick. Sure.

    That, Mr. Rothwell, is Sam 12 logic.


    It correlates perfectly with his fanaticism for defending Rossi and his Escam.

  • Dude,

    You boosted one of my rants from last year,

    I expect royalty payments.

  • I think it unlikely you will hear a name, but I would not be the slightest bit surprised if some very serious players have been by, if only for a 'lookie-loo'.


    I would be hugely surprised. I noticed that during the recent presentation Rossi was surrounded by technical know-nothings. I have been assuming that this is his level now. But since you are plugged in to the LENR world, does this mean that you have heard of serious people who planning to visit to see the SK?


    As a related question ... do you know of any technical person who has worked with Rossi on building the SK? He keeps talking about his "team" and I wonder of you know any who have been working on the SK project.

  • You seem to believe business owners care about physics (tip: many many of them couldnt care less). Its all about cost savings. I would simply call it environmental friendly 24/7 heat or something. You know solar energy with a small sun included ... :) New tech you know ... No one knows exactly how it works yet, but its not regulated (yet), not taxed (yet), no illegal substances included and it probably is less dangerous than most other 20kW heaters (measure radiation if you like). BUT it will save you money today - and there's hardly any downpayment and maybe a money back guarantee. Big reward. Low risk. That's all that matters. Bottleneck will be production. Not sales.

  • No one knows exactly how it works yet, but its not regulated (yet), not taxed (yet), no illegal substances included and it probably is less dangerous than most other 20kW heaters


    I can't tell if this is a parody or serious, but serious supporters say things like this. So . . . let me point out once again that since "now one knows exactly how it works" should be "no one has the slightest idea how it works." Therefore no one can say whether it is more dangerous or less dangerous than other 20 kW heaters. The inventor claims it made him sick so it is reasonable to suppose it is more dangerous. Furthermore, any heater using any source of heat is regulated, by definition. There is nothing in the regulations saying "if you don't how it works, go ahead and use it." The fact that there are no written regulations specifically covering it makes it a worse violation, not less of a problem.


    After the internet became available to the public, before laws were passed regulating it or even referring to it by name, a person who committed fraud via the internet did not get off scot free. Fraud is fraud, and the police did let you go because your method of communication was brand new. When tasers were just invented I suppose no law referred to them. Still, if you had used one to hold up a bank, they would have arrested you for armed robbery, even though the armed method was not yet on the books.