Paradigmnoia, what you are doing is worse than concern trolling. You are experiment trolling, e.g., carrying out actual experiments and introducing facts into the discussion. This is the most subtle and odious kind of trolling there is.
-
-
@AA: “Also, I wonder what New Math you use to figure my example of Dr. Levi's test of the E-Cat in 2011 was just "a couple of months" ago.”
Um, what are you talking about? I have not said anything about your example of Levi. Oh wait, I think I get it. All of us skeptopaths are the same person. So you must be referring to a post from one of my numerous other identities.
As for what I have done that was great, I have made no claims of greatness. I leave greatness to you in the form of demonstrating the awesome power of delusion.
-
Quote
And strangely enough Mary, after all your wise advice, Elforsk and Rossi are still on talking terms. Funny old world.
Perhaps they are, Alan. But do you know when and how much money Rossi received from Elforsk recently? Say in the last year?
BTW, for the most part, I don't give people like Olofsson or Dick Smith advice. I give them facts and history that they may have missed or overlooked. I am pretty sure they can think for themselves. Too bad IH and Darden could not do that very well.
ETA: Didn't Elforsk change names, get bought or something like, a year or two ago? And is Olofsson still CEO of the resulting organization?
-
Quote
Apart from bitching about others, what have you ever done that is so great?
-
Quote
I know they wont. I have emails containing refusals. I wish i could say who they were, but don't ask. ETA - entirely unconnected with those refusals, there is even one of lookingforheat.com's reactors making no claims of magic sitting in another European university that they have refused to power up because 'Elf and Safety' concerns. Seems that 36V is just too much of a risk for them.
Hmmm... have you tried entrepreneurs? Does the reactor in question clearly make enough extra heat to be unquestionably anomalous? You can always try a self funding site.
QuoteSeems that 36V is just too much of a risk for them.
Probably not, as you know. The sarcasm is inappropriate. If there were to be some sort of energy release due to a real nuclear reaction, it could be extremely dangerous and all the more so in a device with no or insufficient forced cooling, no easy and proven way to shut it down or rapidly tear it apart including the reaction mass, and no safety armor protection and distance. If Rossi's reactors were remotely real, they would be exceedingly dangerous. That they are never treated that way is a hallmark that nobody around them either really understands the hazards or alternaively [sic] believes them to work.
The possibility of real energy release from hydrogen and nickel (or other combinations of materials) is why Shanahan has interest in LENR at all. If it were real, it would greatly threaten the safety of his equipment and work space. His safety and that of his employees and coworkers depends on knowing which is why I attend to and respect his remarks.
-
If Rossi's reactors were remotely real, they would be exceedingly dangerous.
If LENR were real, it would greatly threaten the safety of his equipment and work space. His safety and that of his employees and coworkers depends on knowing which is why I attend to and respect his remarks.
LENR theorist now, are we?
And the trick to discharging your liability under health and safety laws, is not to avoid all risk, but merely demonstrate that you assessed the risk to be negligible...
-
AA here is honest enough in his arguments.
You actually miss the point. It is not up to us to "give Rossi a chance." All I am saying is that I don't consider the case proven nor disproven as the evidence is so murky. The test will either happen or not and the forum here will not make the slightest difference to that.
I do think that LENR in general is proven beyond reasonable doubt. I find the culture of gratuitous unproven insults, libelous and distasteful, and serving no useful purpose. For example Interested Observer's recent comment was just one long ad hominem with no useful content at all. I don't think such comments should be given space a LENR forum.
Wait and see what happens. No test will satisfy the crowd here and as Rossi says the proof will be by commercial sales. I think the development of a high temperature commercial E-Cat X will take much longer than the skeptics realize. There are some really difficult problems to solve and testing time required. Logically selling low temperature heat should be a lot faster if he can find customers. I find Rossi to be an ingenious and determined engineer who probably knows more about LENR than he is given credit for. I am looking forward to the test this month.
-
Quote
Logically selling low temperature heat should be a lot faster if he can find customers.
Yes, there are only a couple of billion people who could use a small, cheap, long lasting and stand alone source of heat for space heating and bath water heating, maybe some cooking too. It supposedly made steam. Anyway, a few billion sales is hardly enough for the Great Rossi to bother with.
Pardon the sarcasm, AA. You seem like a nice guy and I don't mean it in a personal sense. But really? You imply he'd have to "find customers?" If this thing were real, Rossi would be MOBBED by customers and licensees alike. All he'd have to do for the rest of his life is to sign some papers to become a billionaire. That's why the reality of the ecat is so improbable. I'd buy three of those today for my personal use and another dozen for gifts. Just think of all the cat ladies and dog lovers who would keep their animals warm with them.
-
and there are a lot of warehouses and assembly lines up north that would love to cut their heating costs even by a factor of 2 (i.e. COP 2)
-
I know they wont. I have emails containing refusals. I wish i could say who they were, but don't ask. ETA - entirely unconnected with those refusals, there is even one of lookingforheat.com's reactors making no claims of magic sitting in another European university that they have refused to power up because 'Elf and Safety' concerns. Seems that 36V is just too much of a risk for them.
Alan,
Do you really believe that, honestly?
A research university is “afraid” to power up and investigate the cure for the cancer of the 21st century, clean cheap energy? Really?
Scientists and researchers are as curious and more so than most. If presented with documented evidence of some yet unknown energy source they would most certainly go thru a vetting process and test,
they most certainly would not be “afraid”.
That is simply ludicrous.
-
MY & oldguy,
Rossi has stated he is interested in selling heat in the short term, rather than selling the reactors, in order to prevent the technology being stolen. Also, presumably so he can keep an eye on them until they are known to be reliable. This until he has mass production capability.
This means commercial customers needing say 500 kW & up. Consider the cost of gas heating compared to electricity and you need a COP greater than two. Most customers are reluctant to try anything new, particularly if the reliability is unknown and loss of heat would be a problem.
This would also tie up a lot of capital that is needed to build the automated plant.
So I wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait for the mass produced & tested commercial reactors for sale.
-
It appears that only skeptics realize the commercial/economic consequences of practical LENR which might well be measures in trillions of dollars. Believers think it is only of value to a limited number of potential customers. Go figure!
-
A research university is “afraid” to power up and investigate the cure for the cancer of the 21st century, clean cheap energy? Really?
Rose.
We will soon find out, as Unified Gravity Corp is soliciting just that from any university that is willing to test their reactor. They will even help set it up. I'm curious myself to see if any take the challenge, in light of Aarhus University's backing away from their deal with MFMP. My guess is that if any do, they will do so as quietly as they can, all the while holding their noses.
And let us say they get the same fantastic results as UGC...will they have the guts to submit their findings for peer review, and/or (gulp) go in front of the camera and tell the world? These guys can read the history, and see how FPs, and all the early LENR pioneers were treated. My guess is that they will look at this as too hot to handle. We shall see.
-
Do you really believe that, honestly?
A research university is “afraid” to power up and investigate the cure for the cancer of the 21st century, clean cheap energy? Really?
Scientists and researchers are as curious and more so than most. If presented with documented evidence of some yet unknown energy source they would most certainly go thru a vetting process and test,
they most certainly would not be “afraid”.
That is simply ludicrous.
It's not a question of belief when you have seen the refusals. Unless you are suggesting I'm lying, which I do hope you are not.
-
I know they wont. I have emails containing refusals. I wish i could say who they were, but don't ask. ETA - entirely unconnected with those refusals, there is even one of lookingforheat.com's reactors making no claims of magic sitting in another European university that they have refused to power up because 'Elf and Safety' concerns. Seems that 36V is just too much of a risk for them.
We cannot cast such an umbrella. Some universities may not have any interest in cold fusion the same as they might not have any interest in astronomy. It may not be an area of their curriculum, they may not have the budget nor the professors with related fields.
On the other hand people can ask about universities that ARE doing research.
University of Missouri has an on going research program. (They also run an active nuclear reactor, so they have some experience)
Texas University also has an active research program.
The NDA's and "I cannot tell" in this field is definitely a tell tale sign of something... and it is not good.
Most universities have tight budgets and dollars are only approved once written proposal with goals, budgets and plans are submitted. Plans with documented evidence, tests results etc.
Has these refusals been met AFTER a valid and well written application been produced and to a university with an active nuclear department? Who was being asked to fund it? Was there a budget?
I could go to many universities and ask them to test my LENR device. It should only cost 10 - 20 thousand! With just my asking, I can expect zero to take the offer. If I produce significant and documented data / reasoning to test to the right university, I probably would get interest.
But unlessI can fund it, there will be little interest.
After the Rossi fiasco in Doral, no university is going to spend their scarce research dollars on any LENR device connected to Rossi! Nor would I.
As for non-Rossi related devices, one would have to do a well written "grant like" submission. No university is going to spend significant dollars on some unknown device "just because". I have done (3) projects with a commercial and university partnership. In all three, the commercial interest paid the entire bill and had to provide a written project plan. It took a LOT of paperwork to even get in the door! They do not come easy, believe me.
To get a university to foot the bill, is not likely to happen any project, even LENR.
-
I could go to many universities and ask them to test my LENR device. It should only cost 10 - 20 thousand! With just my asking, I can expect zero to take the offer. If I produce significant and documented data / reasoning to test to the right university, I probably would get interes
I quite agree, though I think your price a little too bargain basement for current universities. Just to be clear, the two documented refusals were for devices (not mine) with data and private funding support. The 'Elf and Safety' nonsense arose when one science department wanted to play with a reactor, another science department said they had no business doing so as it was their field of interest, and finally somebody higher-up resolved the squabble by getting H&S to ban its use.
I do know a little about the academic world btw, probably more than many as I spent 10 years working for one as both lecturer and external consultant - the consultancy part mostly begging cash for R&D and course development.
-
It appears that only skeptics realize the commercial/economic consequences of practical LENR which might well be measures in trillions of dollars. Believers think it is only of value to a limited number of potential customers. Go figure!
Seeing that I've forecast that LENR will replace most fossil fuel in two decades. you are even more wrong than usual. Yous just can't stop calling other people idiots.
-
another science department said they had no business doing so as it was their field of interest,
Political bickering! It is indeed as bad in academia as it is in Congress! Although it really has nothing to do with LENR or the refusal to test it. The banning was more likely an uninformed Dean simply taking an easy route to squash internal bickering! But then of course I do not have all the details.
I do know that for the most part, when I approached a university to do a joint research project, it took a lot of effort and paper work. This after finding a department head or at least a tenured professor to champion the cause somewhat. Not always easy to do to say the least.
From my experience, I would have to say that I would find it quite surprising, if an organization approached the correct university with proper method, proper data and the required persistence, that a partnership could not be found. However, certainly not every university will take on every discipline however.
I really do not think this is conspiratorial however. It is more lack of budget, lack of decent experimental data or theory and mostly lack of familiarity. I have a good friend who is a lead operator at a US nuclear plant. He is extremely intelligent and keeps up on the latest nuclear technology. He has never hear of Rossi (just as well in my opinion), Piantelli, Celani, MFMP nor any of the normal subjects on this forum. He is not against Cold Fusion and is interested when I discussed it with him. He is not however, interested in unconfirmed rumor, speculation, secrets and black boxes that never are independently tested. Free energy devices are a dime a dozen and the world is unfortunately full of them, all fake so far....
If LENR is going to make it, someone is going to have to quit the "I cannot tell" or the NDA mantra. There is billions to be made if a person has something and it does not require an air tight patent. There is no such thing! It requires something that works and is proven to work! So far, this does not exist either. I hope it will!
-
I do know that for the most part, when I approached a university to do a joint research project, it took a lot of effort and paper work. This after finding a department head or at least tenured professor to be champion the cause somewhat. Not always easy to do to say the least.
Once again. I've done all of that. Twice. Not bothering again. As for the politics, tell me about it! I have the T-shirt and the hat.
-
That is simply ludicrous.
Ludicrous and for the most part true, unfortunately.
