Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    China will adopt it far faster then the US because of their pollution problems and ability to bypass regulations.

    The ability to bypass regulations ends up causing more problems than it fixes. It does not speed up progress. It does not make society more innovative, or competitive.


    In the 1960s Japan had few regulations governing pollution, and they had horrendous pollution. So bad, it actually killed children in Yokkaichi, and it caused terrible illness in Minamata. This did not contribute to progress. It did not free up Japanese resources for better things, or make them more competitive. It enriched a few people, killed thousands people, and destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives.


    When the Japanese government passed laws regulating and reducing pollution, this triggered innovation. It gave rise to profitable pollution control technology and high efficiency machinery which Japanese companies exported to other countries. These regulations sped up progress. They did not impede it or slow it down.


    See my book, chapter 16, starting on p. 126:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf


    A nation that cannot or will not regulate pollution, and would make no effort to regulate an unknown nuclear reactions is not capable of developing cold fusion.


    Anyway, China is a highly restrictive place. There is little academic freedom these days. It is not the kind of environment where people are likely to develop something as revolutionary as cold fusion. Cold fusion is not been developed in the United States because academic freedom has been restricted, eroded by corrupt scientists and now clobbered by ignorant anti-science fanatics. As Schwinger said, "this will be the death of science." Things are much worse in China, and not very good in Japan either. High government officials there have told researchers that they are determined to prevent the development of cold fusion because it might "interfere with the energy economy." Government officials in Japan tend to have more control over their economy than U.S. officials have over ours.

    Jed,

    You seem keener on regulators than I am.

    I once attended a meeting in Washington on "Glass related deaths."

    There were about a dozen items in the database. Including a man who had died because someone threw a bottle off the top of a high building that hit him on the head. Another had drunk poison from a bottle...


    I was an expert witness in a case where a man had seriously injured his arm in a lehr stacker. Everyone knew they were supposed to turn off the machine before attempting to unjam it. In this case, he had even unbolted the heavy guard over the top of it to reach inside. The company lost the case because it didn't have a label on it saying "Do not remove the guard," as if that would have made a difference. actually I was glad he got money because it was an accident. There is no cure for stupidity. Said something about the company too, that didn't want to pay anything.


    Edited the usual typos

    Quote from JedRothwell

    I suggest you read:

    I'm not an IBM fan. I was there in the early days of PCs owning an Exidy Sorcerer in 1978. Nor am I happy with the decline in business morals/culture.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Ascoli65

    This is a harsh criticism about my behavior here on L-F. I always appreciated your way of discussing, even when you were a strong Ecat believer. I'm glad you're now a moderator here on L-F. So, I'd like to consider your advices, and see if I can improve my way of participating to the discussion. Could you please specify where I've been unfair or unkind to JR?


    Ascoli,


    Jed is a big boy and can speak for himself. All I am saying is your line of questioning...at times more like an interrogation, may be acceptable to him as his years defending LENR have given him thick skin,, but unacceptable to other insiders. Celani may be more sensitive to your "gothca" questions, and dogged follow-ups.


    Many of the insiders do a lot of public speaking in support of LENR, present many scientific papers, attend conferences, and have been plugged into the insider "gossip mill" for years, so of course they will have contradicted themselves in the public record on a few things. That is human. Understandably then, they are not going to be too thrilled answering questions from someone that will go to great lengths to find discrepancies between what they said then, and now. Then weave it into some conspiracy.


    We want to foster a congenial, welcoming LF, where insiders can join the discussion without fear of being drug through the mud. I still recall when we lost Dr. Storms as an active member, after he was roughed up a little too much. We lost an important window into LENR land when he left. I would not want to see that happen again. Now, there are some exceptions, as the Rossi and Mizuno Bucket thread shows, but hey...sometimes we have to have a little fun. :)


    Do not let this dissuade you from posting again please. You do know this story better than most, and have provided some valuable insights into, and heretofore unknown details about the Rossi affair.

    As an outsider and somebody with no skin in the game one way or another... I find Ascoli's attitude towards Jed tendentious and offensive. I'm surprised that he has borne it so well.

    Eric Walker,


    Quote from Eric Walker

    The straightforward account is something like this: (1) When Jed Rothwell was advocating for Rossi a few years ago, it was a sincere advocacy that was due to his being aware of test results that were promising and due to his being in contact with people he trusted who were closer to Rossi's activities and who were also enthusiastic. That (2) Rossi was not an agent of the DoD or a similar agency, but rather an independent actor who had gained attention in various quarters with his claims. And that (3) any activity vaguely traceable back to the DoD and other government agencies was presumably due to genuine interest and not, e.g., their masterminding a revival of interest in LENR for underhanded purposes unrelated to LENR.


    Thanks for the esplicitation.


    Quote

    Hopefully this reading will seem like the straightforward one to you as well? In departing from it, your questions, with vague hints of a nefarious plot, take things in the direction of a conspiracy theory.


    Sorry, this reading doesn't help me much to understand the development of the Ecat story.


    It raises and leaves unanswered a lot of questions. I wonder, for example, which quarters could have been interested in an actor with such a controversial past. Which of his claims could have gained any attention after the failure of his TEG project. Which test results have been so promising. On what bases the people who were closer to Rossi could have been so enthusiastic about his activities.


    I hope these questions are not too nefarious.

    @ JedRothwell,


    Quote from JedRothwell

    It is not a revelation. It is a confused rumor. Celani is nice fellow but he gets confused at times, and makes mistakes. There is no chance Ahern worked with Rossi.


    I don't know how he got these rumors. Ask him, please.


    Quote

    Plus, as I said, even if they did work together, they published nothing, so nothing came of the collaboration.


    This is not the point. Anyway, it shows that such a collaboration cannot be excluded even for you.


    Quote

    So if it happened it is a trivial matter.


    I disagree. If it happened that Rossi worked on LENR in a US government lab before coming to Italy to look for Focardi, it would be a very big issue.


    Quote

    It is none of your concern, and frankly, none of your business. I do not understand why you are so keen to poke into people's private lives searching for "proof" of your conspiracy theories.


    Hey, are you kidding? I didn't poke into anybody's private live! I was responding to a comment by Shane D. who first mentioned Ahern, and in preparing my answer I stumbled upon the public Celani's revelations about this old collaboration with Rossi in a government context. I didn't care of Ahern up to now.


    At this point, I wonder why this fact irritates you so much.

    It's not that your questions are nefarious. It's that your questions often seem to suggest or imply nefarious intent among a circle that goes well beyond Rossi. You are permitted your doubts about the straightforward explanation I gave. But do not be surprised if your questions raise eyebrows and the thought that you are delving into conspiracy theories. That is your choice, and not one that is likely to cause issues.

    Quote from Ascoli65

    At this point, I wonder why this fact [about Ahern] irritates you so much.


    First, is it not a fact. It is a rumor.


    Second, the rumor does not annoy me. I could not care less about it. You annoy me. If you do not understand why you annoy me, perhaps you lack social graces.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Thank you again. Better to send the address by email to the interested parties. I didn't want to put you to that trouble.

    It may well come to nothing. Even Woodworker is trying to back out.

    Excuse me! I am not trying to back out. Rather your accusations of that sound to me like you are running scared. I will honor the terms to which I originally agreed, but let's also make it more interesting. IN ADDITION TO AND NOT IN LIEU OF THE ORIGINAL WAGER, let's have another on the terms one of your Rossi aligned posters suggested, at 1:1 odds. I will match you dollar for dollar up to $20,000. Due date: 6/1/19, UL approved, energy out greater than energy in, no other chemical or other processes, just Rossi's magic box, and for sale via any major retailer, any regional or greater utility, or any major commercial supplier. After all, if it is commercially available, it will have to be sold by some entity with a network and experience. Sale directly by Rossi, by internet or otherwise, won't cut it. I want a third party, other than UL, to put their name on the line as to the validity of Rossi's claims. IIRC, UL doesn't opine on processes, only on their safety. And all of the discussions have been about commercial availability - prototype doesn't mean squat.


    If you are so confident, none of these criteria should be problematic for you. If you have problems, then I guess you are trying to back out.

    Sounds like you are trying to back out. I will not agree to "reputable journal or paper." That could, by some persons' estimation, include JONP. As to manner of payment, I am happy to send cash, US currency, to Alan. As to the other conditions, compliance with those relies on Rossi's credibility -- apologizing in advance for the profanity, NO FUCKING WAY do I trust anything that comes out of Rossi's mouth. The man has proven himself, by his own admissions in sworn testimony, to be a serial liar. As to the year wait for retraction, you are only putting up $50 while I am putting up $500. If you are that strapped for cash, let me know and I will just send you $50 (by US Post Office money order, registered mail). Your comment about "If it happens" -- not sounding very confident there AA. And if these are impossible requirements I am open to others that don't rely on Rossi's representations, statements and other lies. Here is one that should be easy to satisfy IF Rossi has in fact a commercially ready product -- do a public test of it. If it is commercially ready and he has started production (must suppress sound of laughter), then he should easily be ready for a public test, one where all he is required to do is start it up, then walk away and let it run for a week or so. After all, a commercially ready product, while it may need monitoring, will not need constant tending to make sure that the controls don't over-heat and melt (at least I wouldn't think so) and a commercially ready product shouldn't need all the constant tinkering and babying that Rossi's products seem to demand. If these commercially ready products are intending for industrial applications, they certainly can't be the typical Rossi product, which seems to demand not only constant tinkering, but babying lest anything go wrong.


    I have followed your posts AA with great fascination, as I find them tremendously amusing and entertaining. So let me make this very clear: I have no financial, business or other interest in LENR generally or who comes up with a successful approach. I would truly love to see something come out of all this. But I am 100% convinced, beyond an iota of a shadow of a doubt, that it will not be Rossi. I am equally convinced that he is a hypocrite, a serial liar, a serial conman and a total fraud (Dr. Rossi: if you wish to sue me for defamation, my address is 1100 Broadway, Suite 5752, Redwood City, CA 94063 and if you wish to arrange for personal service, which would be required under California law,my telephone number is 818-660-9522, call me and I will arrange to meet your process server -- so bring it on). I base all of this on what was publicly filed and/or released in connection with the Rossi/IH litigation, focusing particularly on the depositions of him and his fellow crooks, all taken under penalty of perjury. Rossi lied all through his dealings with IH (I don't care if IH lied or behaved badly, I am not defending them and their conduct is not at issue with respect to Rossi's new wonder machines, so please don't try to divert attention / responsibility for Rossi thereby) and his and others depositions proved that he and they were lying.


    You don't want to back out and you don't like my conditions precedent to my honoring my obligations, them come up with something that doesn't rely of Rossi's bullshit. I want some sort of evidence (something that Rossi never provides) as determined by an independent third party that Rossi's magic box does what he claims.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    AA - The WCS has declared that all IP leading up to his 1MW "system" is worthless as exhibited in his haste to abandon the platform and move on to "something better". In doing so, he has totally affirmed the IH interpretation/ decision.


    Tony - The WCS has demonstrated quite an accomplished proclivity for getting in and out of contracts as well as prisons. He took $11.5M from us, didn't perform, attempted to litigate to cover his lack of performance then chose to walk away and escape.


    Of course I can understand that you feel this way Dewey. But it makes sense to me that IP up until "1MW system" at least declined sharply in value in the light of the "something better" IP (the X stuff I presume)? My interpretation is that Rossi was worried that the contract could be interpreted as covering also the X stuff and therefor found it a priority to get out of it.


    I'm getting a mixed message from you though - at the same time as you accuse Rossi of panicking and being a coward and brags about what kind of masterminds IH are, you seem to have a problem with Rossi getting out of the contract and "escape"? And as we covered, it was IH who chose to take the walkaway offer in the last minute. And to be clear IH knew since long before that (as you also more or less confirmed) that a walkaway was exactly what Rossi wanted in order to "escape" from contractual obligations to IH.


    I want to thank you for making these events a lot clearer to me. And as I said, I can understand why you want to spin alternate truths out of it since it is not very flattering to IH as it stands.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.