Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • It is quite interesting how steadfast Rossi stays to his mode of operation.


    From ECW :

    "The 1kW E-Cat QX is ‘almost’ ready. They will make a final decision by the end of June. Leonardo’s goal is to deliver E-Cats by the end of this year. Rossi stated that a public presentation may be delayed until early 2019 due to logistical difficulties of having a presentation in mid-winter during the holiday season when weather might be problematic.

    Andrea Rossi stated that the first commercial efforts will be to provided heat for private industry. While technologically the E-Cat could be used to generate electricity in power stations, Rossi stated there are regulatory issues that make that a hard arena to break into.

    The price that customers will pay for heat will depend on each specific situation, but Rossi states that it will be at between a 30 to 50 per cent discount compared to a customer’s current fuel costs.

    Rossi has 22 people working with him as part of his team."


    http://e-catworld.com/2018/06/…-e-cat-commercialization/


    Note:

    1) The QX is "almost ready". He has stated several times in the fall that he would be in production this spring. Moving target again.

    Remember, Rossi stated he had achieved "Sigma 5" on the QX! While he never explained or gave any proof of this, if he had reached what is normally meant by 5 Sigma, Rossi was at an extremely high level of readiness for production. What gives here?


    2) Any public display will be delayed until 2019 to due winter weather delays! Really? Unbelievable. One might note that the Florida winter is the best time of year. Very mild! We have no indications that he has moved.

    Weather conditions?


    3) Regulatory issues? What? He has stated (as his faithful echo) that he has the certifications! More seriously, it does not matter WHO is running reactor, one STILL has to meet regulatory requirements. He is stating that he can put a plant in a factory and sell the owner heat and not have to follow regulatory law! This is absurd! If the reactor is in a plant, it HAS to meet regulations regardless of who owns or runs it! This is pure fantasy!


    Adrian should know this, but he will most likely not admit it. Ownership of a device does not determine whether one has to meet regulatory law, it is operation and where it is operated.


    4)Rossi has 22 people working for him. I have read over the years several times of "his team". He has often said that his "factory" has various numbers of people. However, his team has only ever proven to be : Fabiani and Bass. Bass being a figure head. That is 2, not 22. Perhaps a typo? ^^


    Loyal followers... Rossi is lying to you again! He is setting the stage to abandon the QX for the SK, It is his proverbial carrot on a stick.


    This interview about weather, getting around regulations, 22 team members and Rossi's moving carrot is amazingly the same repetitive story he gives year after year.


    "If it a'int broke, don't fix it!":rolleyes:


    P.S.

    I should point out that Rossi's next move will be to announce an "important" new customer. One that is a major player and has now required the clamp down of NDA'a. This customer will also "make the decision" that the QX is not good enough and that they want to wait for the "SK". (Does this sound familiar?)


    But the faithful will not ask about the "major food company" that Rossi was working with. Just as they do not ask about Seimens, Aerospace engineers or the various other "customers" Rossi has proclaimed over the years.


    Remember, (Sam12 you seem to be relatively new) Rossi has proclaimed a total of 13 eCat 1mw plants sold to customers over the years! (He really likes the 1MW size for some reason.) Only one has ever actually surfaced... it was not actually sold. The Doral plant was a "selling of heat", just like he is proclaiming now....... We all know how THAT turned out don't we!


    Well, I guess some of us know, others seem to think it was an amazing success! Even if Rossi DID dismantle it the day after filing the lawsuit!

  • Loyal followers... Rossi is lying to you again! He is setting the stage to abandon the QX for the SK, It is his proverbial carrot on a stick.


    This interview about weather, getting around regulations, 22 team members and Rossi's moving carrot is amazingly the same repetitive story he gives year after year.


    "If it a'int broke, don't fix it!":rolleyes:

    Thanks for your opinion Bob.

    Rossi timeline fits my own April 1 2019 deadline for the Ecat to get to

    customers and for them to be

    satisfied with product.

    We shall see what happens with the

    Ecat between now and then.

    BTW if A.R. says this fall there will be

    a delay for whatever reason past

    April 1 2019 that will mean I will guit

    following him then.

  • “Rossi has 22 people working with him as part of his team."

    […]

    I have read over the years several times of "his team". He has often said that his "factory" has various numbers of people. However, his team has only ever proven to be : Fabiani and Bass. Bass being a figure head. That is 2, not 22. Perhaps a typo? ^^


    Loyal followers... Rossi is lying to you again!

    In 2012 he said to have 63 people in his “team”... and growing... ;-)

    Apparently, Rossi is losing track about the stories he invented told years ago...

  • Where did you hear they were founded to acquire and manage Ecat technology? Who told you that? That is not what they told me, and not what they said in their speeches and announcements.


    The first time people heard about IH was at the beginning of 2014, when the following press release appeared on the web:

    From http://www.e-catworld.com/2014…echnology/comment-page-1/

    RESEARCH TRIANGLE, N.C., Jan. 24, 2014 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Industrial Heat, LLC announced today that it has acquired the rights to Andrea Rossi's Italian low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) technology, the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat). A primary goal of the company is to make the technology widely available, because of its potential impact on air pollution and carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels and biomass.

    […]


    On the same day of January 2014, more info appeared on the web, revealing some commercial aspects of the deal:

    From http://www.bizjournals.com/tri…s-cherokee-buys-into.html

    […]

    Vaughn did not disclose financial terms of the deal with Rossi, but Industrial Heat stated in a U.S. securities filing last fall that it had already raised $11.6 million from investors.

    […]


    This sum is practically what IH paid to Rossi after the validation test held in Ferrara on May 2014:

    From https://animpossibleinvention.…-industrial-heat-for-89m/

    […]

    Rossi and IH entered an agreement in October 2012 (as I also report in An Impossible Invention), on which Rossi was paid $1.5M.

    A 24h Validation Test was performed in May 2014 with a plant consisting of 30 E-Cats. After successful completion Rossi was paid $10M, and he transferred all the necessary IP for the E-Cat and its fuel to IH.

    […]



    This initial funding has been followed in 2015, in the middle of the Doral test, by the $50 million from Woodford:

    From the interview released by Darden and published on Sept.27, 2015: http://fortune.com/2015/09/27/…-energy-nuclear-reaction/

    […]

    Q: So you’re optimistic?

    A: Yes, In fact, Rossi was awarded an important U.S. patent recently, which is part of what we licensed, covering the use of nickel, platinum or palladium powders, as well as other components, in his heat-producing device. This is one of very few LENR-related patents to date.

    But let me make one thing very clear. We don’t know for sure yet whether it will be commercially feasible. We’ve invested more than $10 million so far in Rossi’s and other LENAR technology and we’ll spend substantially more than that before we know for certain because we want to crush all the tests. (Recently, we have been joined by Woodford Investment Management in the U.K., which has made a much larger investment into our international LENR activities—so we are well funded.)

    […]


    So, as everybody can see from their speeches and announcements, IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, a LENR technology which should have produced reliable energy in the kW to MW range, and the money was collected for the same scope.


    Now, as you and others have reported from ICCF21, they are using those money to fund some other CF experiments in the usual mW to W range, typical of the inconclusive CF/LENR activity lasting since 1989.


    Well, I should admit that this outcome was correctly predicted by you well in advance:

    JR comment on Vortex, April 27, 2011 - http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…@eskimo.com/msg45581.html

    Success for Rossi will bringing funding for others

    [...]


    If this outcome was its real scope, the Ecat initiative has been a sensational world success. A strategy which deserve to be taught at Harvard Business School, as you have also said a few months later: https://www.mail-archive.com/v…@eskimo.com/msg56423.html

  • So, as everybody can see from their speeches and announcements, IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, a LENR technology which should have produced reliable energy in the kW to MW range, and the money was collected for the same scope.


    Now, as you and others have reported from ICCF21, they are using those money to fund some other CF experiments in the usual mW to W range, typical of the inconclusive CF/LENR activity lasting since 1989.

    You are wrong. The initial money was not for kW to MW range. The initial investment (as seen in the SEC filings) was south of $12M and for heat production. Later after traveling the to various research groups (of which Rossi was one) , Woodford indicated they would invest around $50M. To my knowledge (limited) most of that still resides in the UK and not directly given to IH but a holding company (see court documents). That money was earmarked for all the various research groups funded by IH. {and no, IH did not get $200M from China for Rossi's ecat as Rossi claimed).


    Simply put the money raised was for a range of projects (including those in France, Japan, US,...) which were not at the kW or MW range. To my knowledge, outside of Rossi's wild claims, the highest levels were only on the order of 100W (Mizuno) and almost that for Miley (but very short lived).


    I also disagree with your characterization of "inconclusive CF/LENR)" They sure seems conclusive to me with national labs find tritium and neutrons, and major commercial labs (SEI for example) find heat at +5 sigma levels. Also transmutations found in multiple international labs. What in the world is inconclusive about tritium found at LANL by a man (Claytor) tasked with tritium detection at the lab? If that's not "conclusive" that nuclear events are occurring, what is?

  • So, as everybody can see from their speeches and announcements, IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat,

    You can only "see" that if you ignore their other speeches and announcements, in which they said they were supporting a broad range of initiatives other than Rossi. If you pretend the speeches you quoted are the only ones they made then yes, that was the only thing they did. Also, all those researchers at ICCF21 who said they were supported by I.H. -- you have to assume (pretend, imagine?) they were lying. It seems improbable.

  • ) The QX is "almost ready". He has stated several times in the fall that he would be in production this spring. Moving target again.

    That us not true. Provide a direct quote.

    Earlier Rossi said he hoped to have the QX in production by October. Later he backed off to the end of the year. At the time, I wrote I thought that was too optimistic and by mid 2019 more likely.


    Then you continue with a page of babble pulled directly from your crystal ball.

    You will never learn to wait and see. What Rossi said increased my confidence that he will start mass production. If you are so certain everything Rossi says is a lie why do you waste time following him?

  • all those researchers at ICCF21...


    Yes, it was very impressive to see more than a dozen people up on the stage at the lunch break on Monday for an IH photo op with Tom D. And that did not even include people like Mizuno (not at conference), Fran T and Biberian (who received support in the past and acknowledged it in their talks).---- So refreshing to see George M's students up there. We need more young blood.


    A65 often just ignores any evidence that does not support his case.


    The bottom line is that IH has and continues to support many researchers.

  • Adrian,

    most here have interest in LENR in general, and many unlike you did follow Rossis lies since many years and probably simply want him to either disappear forever from the scene or finally demonstrate that he has what he says. As we know, he had nothing proved to work Independently so far. Same story since almost a decade. So wait and see that he will not sell heat, won’t show his robotic factories, won’t publish his theory, won’t independently let verify his quark..

  • Quote

    most here have interest in LENR in general, and many unlike you did follow Rossis lies since many years and probably simply want him to either disappear forever from the scene or finally demonstrate that he has what he says.

    Exactly right. Rossi's earlier e-cats were described as more powerful than most of those that followed. If he was telling the truth, he could have easily proved that his first e-cats worked, either by having someone truly independent from him make good measurements, or by making the reactors self-running. Instead, he studiously avoided believable testing conditions and methods for seven f'n years! Good tests were only performed by accident like the one done by the Swedish Technical Institute:


    Quote

    However, at the investors' measurement on 6 September in Bologna, no heat energy could be found in addition to the electrical power input.

    The Investor Group had commissioned SP, the Swedish Technical Research Institute , to monitor the measurement, and the researcher who measured measured an input electric power that was two to three times higher than Rossi himself measured (when using the SP, so-called True RMS instruments ) .


    So the Swedish technical Institute, Prometeon (a distributor) and Industrial Heat in their accidental test of an unloaded reactor, all found that the ecat did not work (links on request).


    Quote

    You will never learn to wait and see.

    There is nothing to learn to do that. Many of us have been waiting and seeing since 2011 without special instruction. Perhaps you meant "wait and see and say nothing about evidence of scamming and lying" ?


    Quote

    What Rossi said increased my confidence that he will start mass production.

    What he said in 2011? Nothing has changed about what Rossi says since then except for the dumb initials he uses to describe his various iterations of plastic pipe and duct tape.


    Quote

    If you are so certain everything Rossi says is a lie why do you waste time following him?

    Because it provides great insight into human nature and that some people are wired to accept the sayings of even the most obvious scammer and con man as long as it is put cleverly and tells them what they want to hear. It's hilarious or tragic depending on your world view and on whether or not you lost your own money.


     
     
     
     

  • Because it provides great insight into human nature and some people are wired to accept the sayings of even the most obvious scammer and con man as long as it is put cleverly and tells them what they want to hear. It's hilarious or tragic depending on your world view.

    For more on this, read about end-of-the-world predictions, and the people who believe them. You will see that many of these predictions are not "put cleverly." To outsiders, they are ridiculous. The predictions fail, yet new predictions are made and the followers believe the next time it will come true.


    Such predictions are usually made by preachers, who I think believe themselves. It is difficult for me to understand what motivates the preachers or their followers. Why would you want the world to end? I have the impression they do want the world to end, or they want to be saved, or they want to be insiders to the greatest event in history.


    Such failed predictions often live on even after they fail. People sometimes persuade themselves that the prediction was fulfilled even though the world did not end. This was how the Seventh-Day Adventist Church was founded. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment


    To drag the subject away from religion to something more relevant: there are many claims of over-unity energy machines that have failed every test, yet people still believe in them.


    There are many claims in cold fusion that have not been independently verified or replicated. I have a feeling some of them are true, while others I feel are probably mistakes. In all cases, I reserve judgement. I cannot tell. I can make an educated guess. The ones that resemble claims that were replicated are likely to be true. Sui generis claims that may not even be cold fusion have less credibility. Careful experiments done by credible people seem true even if they are far away from other claims. Sloppy experiments such as Parkamov's first experiments, and the MIT plasma fusion attempt to replicate Fleischmann and Pons, have less credibility. Without replication, all you have to go on is your own knowledge and your gut feeling about the author, the instruments and the techniques. You have to guess.

  • You are wrong. The initial money was not for kW to MW range.


    I am wrong? It's really incredible that you are not able to see reality even when it is plainly written in your language.


    Please, give a look at the link included in the Lewan's excerpt quoted in my previous comment. You will find the text of the First Amendment to the License Agreement between Leonardo Corp and IH. The Validation Tests described in the Exhibit A were based on two units each composed by 30 individual Ecat reactors. These reactors were part of those installed on the 1 MW assembly, which featured about 100 reactors in total. So the expected power of Validation Tests required by IH was about 300 kW, well within the kW to MW range.


    Quote

    The initial investment (as seen in the SEC filings) was south of $12M and for heat production.

    Oh, yes. More precisely it was 11,6 M$. Just 0.1 M$ more than the total sum that was given to Rossi after the Ferrara Validation Test. Maybe this difference did cover the expenses for the journey of the IH personnel to Italy.


    Quote

    Later after traveling the to various research groups (of which Rossi was one) , Woodford indicated they would invest around $50M. To my knowledge (limited) most of that still resides in the UK and not directly given to IH but a holding company (see court documents). That money was earmarked for all the various research groups funded by IH.


    I have already shown you what Shane D. wrote about this aspect. Since he liked your comment again, I gladly let him the honor of explaining you what he said in 2016:

    From a Shane D. comment, https://www.lenr-forum.com/for…i/?postID=24042#post24042 :

    "Your part about Woodford is interesting, because based on Deweysays (just picking on you Dewey J) it does not sound like the rest of IH's portfolio would justify $50 million investment. That seems to indicate their main purpose for investing in IH, was because of Rossi. And we know they jumped on board this past summer...well into the GPT."


    Quote

    {and no, IH did not get $200M from China for Rossi's ecat as Rossi claimed)

    What are you talking about? I didn't mention this stuff, nor any other Rossi-say.


    Quote

    To my knowledge, outside of Rossi's wild claims, the highest levels were only on the order of 100W (Mizuno) and almost that for Miley (but very short lived).


    Exactly. And that's the reason why the Rossi's wild claims were those which triggered interest in LENR of the IH's founders and funders.


    Quote

    They sure seems conclusive to me

    They seem conclusive to you, but not to me, nor to the mainstream science, and even to someone which swam for long outside the main stream:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…eskimo.com/msg114895.html


    Rossi versus Darden trial settled


    Brian Ahern Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:45:57 -0700

    Axil's pronouncements seem to indicate well established experimental evidence.

    There is none.


    Inviting superconductivity into LENR has no more validity than bringing in a witch doctor to lead the discussion.


    The sad reality is that nobody has succeeded in producing 1.0 watts of excess energy with a COP > 1.5 on a repeatable and demonstrated platform.


  • [To my knowledge, outside of Rossi's wild claims, the highest levels were only on the order of 100W (Mizuno) and almost that for Miley (but very short lived).]


    Exactly. And that's the reason why the Rossi's wild claims were those which triggered interest in LENR of the IH's founders and funders.

    How do you know this? Did they consult with you? Did you attend their early meetings?


    Seriously, you seem to have inside information. Either that, or you are making stuff up.


    I myself have no idea what brought I.H. into the field. I do not know what triggered their interest, or the sequence of events. I suspect you don't know these things either. If you do know, tell us where you read this history. Please refrain from making assertions without providing evidence. That's annoying.


    Here is what I do know. By the time I became aware of I.H., they were interested in many researchers other than Rossi. They asked me to provide information on some of these others. I am well positioned to do this because I have many documents other than the ones uploaded at LENR-CANR.org. In many cases I have no idea what to make of claims or theories, and no opinion, but I can give you tons of documents relating to the claims. Mills and the company formerly known as "Blacklight Power" are good examples. I have hundreds of pages of theory from him. I cannot make head or tail of it, but if you want copies I would be happy to provide them.


    Why wouldn't they read about these other researchers, and take them seriously? Why would they focus exclusively on Rossi? The evidence from McKubre and others was replicated and it was a lot stronger than the evidence for Rossi. In retrospect, I think I.H. made a grievous error giving so much money to Rossi, but this does not indicate they were technical ignoramuses who could not understand McKubre and the others. On the contrary, I know from my conversations with them that they could and they did understand these other claims.



    [Ahern is quoted}


    Inviting superconductivity into LENR has no more validity than bringing in a witch doctor to lead the discussion.

    Hydrides are low temperature superconductors. There is some evidence that extremely high loading makes them HTSC. That would be a link to cold fusion.


    The sad reality is that nobody has succeeded in producing 1.0 watts of excess energy with a COP > 1.5 on a repeatable and demonstrated platform.

    I do not understand why Brian Ahern cares about the power level. As long as it is above a half-watt or a watt it can be measured with confidence. Who cares about the absolute power? It has no scientific significance. And even if it did have significance, it is much higher than the first fission reaction detected by the Curies, and many cold fusion reactions are much more powerful than the first sustained fission reaction at U. Chicago. I also do not understand why Brian cares about the so-called COP. The whole discussion seems senseless to me.


    But anyway, recent work by Beiting and others who replicated Takahashi et al. show a repeatable, demonstrated, replicated platform. Using the material that Brian commissioned from Ames. So why is he still such a Debby Downer? I don't get it. I asked him last week, but he hasn't responded.

  • You are wrong. The initial money was not for kW to MW range. The initial investment (as seen in the SEC filings) was south of $12M and for heat production. Later after traveling the to various research groups (of which Rossi was one) , Woodford indicated they would invest around $50M. To my knowledge (limited) most of that still resides in the UK and not directly given to IH but a holding company (see court documents). That money was earmarked for all the various research groups funded by IH. {and no, IH did not get $200M from China for Rossi's ecat as Rossi claimed).


    Simply put the money raised was for a range of projects (including those in France, Japan, US,...) which were not at the kW or MW range. To my knowledge, outside of Rossi's wild claims, the highest levels were only on the order of 100W (Mizuno) and almost that for Miley (but very short lived).


    I also disagree with your characterization of "inconclusive CF/LENR)" They sure seems conclusive to me with national labs find tritium and neutrons, and major commercial labs (SEI for example) find heat at +5 sigma levels. Also transmutations found in multiple international labs. What in the world is inconclusive about tritium found at LANL by a man (Claytor) tasked with tritium detection at the lab? If that's not "conclusive" that nuclear events are occurring, what is?

    What French Lenr project are you talking about? There has never been a Lenr project in France, Darling ! If , probably, you talk about the greatest French communicator on Lenr subject, he probably must have received some coins from USA, no more,

  • You can only "see" that if you ignore their other speeches and announcements, in which they said they were supporting a broad range of initiatives other than Rossi.

    It is you that are ignoring the meaning of the verb "to found". The foundation is the first act of a company. Think about it. As usual, you are mixing up things and times. The first announcements and declarations from IH were very clear on the fact that IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat.


    What happened later is another story. If you are engaged in a 100 M$ deal for a MW range technology, you can also dedicate some k$ to other similar initiatives in the mW to W range, just to get a more complete view of the field. Especially if you are realizing that the first and main deal is about to become a fiasco.


    Quote

    If you pretend the speeches you quoted are the only ones they made then yes, that was the only thing they did.

    I'm not pretending that. I just say that if we are talking about the founding phase of a company, we should consider only their first announcements and declarations, not the last ones.


    Quote

    Also, all those researchers at ICCF21 who said they were supported by I.H. -- you have to assume (pretend, imagine?) they were lying. It seems improbable.

    Not at all. I believe them. I just say that they were supported by "Ecat money", as you predicted in April 2011.

  • It is you that are ignoring the meaning of the verb "to found". The foundation is the first act of a company.

    Again let me ask: Do you have founding documents from them? Where are you getting your information?


    The first announcements and declarations from IH were very clear on the fact that IH was founded to acquire and manage the Ecat.

    Not the first declarations I heard. Can you point us to these announcements and declarations that say they were founded to acquire and manage the Ecat, and they had no interest in other cold fusion results, and no plans to invest in them? That is not what they told me. They seemed to know a lot about these other experiments, and they seemed interested in investing in them.


    Perhaps you are right, and they started with Rossi and only later become interested in the others. Perhaps. I think is more likely the other way around. My impression is that they were interested in cold fusion as a whole, and while investigating it they found Rossi and concentrated on him. I could be wrong about that. I have not seen any founding documents. It seems you have seen such documents. You sure talk like you have. So tell us what you know.

  • What French Lenr project are you talking about? There has never been a Lenr project in France, Darling !

    There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.


    If , probably, you talk about the greatest French communicator on Lenr subject, he probably must have received some coins from USA, no more,

    Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

  • There has never been a Lenr project in France,

    That will come to a shock to Jean Paul Biberian who still is the editor of JCMNS and mentioned IH support in his talk and even pursues it in his retirement in his own lab.


    no LENR project in France??? even F and P had a multi-million dollar lab there.

  • There were many experiments in France, paid for by French corporations, universities and so on. I do not know if the French government paid for any directly. Jean-Paul Biberian would know.


    Who would that be? Anyway, I am sure that most of these experiments were not paid for by anyone in the U.S. I don't always know the inside story about who paid for what, but I would have heard if it was DARPA or someone like that. They would have to acknowledge it in the papers.

    JedRothwell 

    you

    you criticize Rossi because he doesn't give the necessary proof to you.

    Also, I ask you to give us evidence about what you said before.

    Which corporations and universities pay for research in France?

    Some US guys gave some coins to biberian.

    oldguy, I have a question, why Rossi would be a bad communicator and Biberian, a good one ? Be an editor is to relate work from others, not more. therefore what should be your definition?

    you talk about dinosaur time with P & F, I remind you that it was Toyota that payed.

    Alan Smith 

    you are wrong about French state investment, sorry, therefore maybe you have new informations to share beyond the forum ?


    we are not in a world with villains on one side like Rossi and good on the other side, don't believe in a religious morality as in Western movies.


  • State funding for 'black projects' is not necessarily good or evil, you are making an irrelevant (from my point of view) comment. Black project funding is to protect the interests of the state, which if the state is benign in intention and action is not always wicked. As for further information, I could not possibly comment.


    ETA- Such funding would probably never be public, and I have no reason to believe that any of it goes to Jean Paul.

  • Cyble - the statement about communicator ability is yours not mine and you seem to twist statements about IH funding someone in France to a discussion about the French government not funding LENR.


    You use of misdirection is interesting. I can tell you would get along with Rossi who keeps moving from topic to topic, incomplete devices to promises of future devices, from heated factories claimed in patents to working robotic factories manufacturing devices he has abandoned.

    It is like nailing Jell-o to a tree.