Does This Patent REVEAL me356's Secret Sauce?

  • https://patentscope.wipo.int/s…11/PAMPH/WO1995012883.pdf


    Glow discharge apparatus and methods providing prerequisites and testing for nuclear reactions

    In the present invention significant safety control of such solid state nuclear reactions can be increased by using thinner wires or thinner structures of the metal in question. Pressures, temperatures, and mobilities can be cut down in fusion lattice metal by cutting down FE lattice pressure by releasing FEs rapidly from the metal.
    Because of increased pressures available, under the teachings of the present invention, energy generation can be produced in smaller and thinner wires and films of the FLM. This allows much higher rates of control over the cold fusion reactions such that safe shutdown procedures may be employed thereby avoiding any chance of uncontrollable runaway reactions.
    The present invention allows operation at much higher temperatures, on the order of 900 °C by virtue of the use of thin film sheets or fabrications of palladium metal. The melting point of palladium is 1544°C. By virtue of using gas discharge in the present reaction, thin films of the fusion lattice metal may be used. Thin films are able to radiate heat by blackbody radiation and convection or forced gas cooling and to equilibrate quickly due to low thermal mass. Being thinner, the whole FLM can equilibrate to temperatures of the surrounding environment at a rate ΔT°/sec which increases as a function of the inverse proportion of the FLM thickness or radius and proportional to thermal diffusivity of the FLM material. These attributes could not be provided in an aqueous based reactor. The present invention provides, therefore, for the use of smaller amounts of FLM to achieve cold fusion then required for electrochemical approaches with higher faster heat emissivity per unit of FLM material.
    The present invention does not experience the problems of surface fouling for two separate reasons. First, ions of the FEs are implanted at a low energy into the fusion lattice metal through use of glow discharge. This is because the FE atoms have been ionized in the discharge dark space over the metal surface and have picked up energies in the range of slightly over 0 ev to as high as 3 Kev and are accelerated in that electric field as is well understood in the art of glow discharge. This allows these accelerated ions, some of which may be recombined with electrons which arrive at the cathode surface as neutral atoms, to implant themselves into the metal surface to a depth of a number of atomic layers. Being light elements the ions travel at high velocities and have high penetration ability. This means that even if the surface of the element was fouled with some coating of non-FE absorbed atoms, the fusion elements would be able to pierce this layer. Secondly, allowing for a small amount of noble gas (i.e., neon or argon) within the gas mixture in the reactor canister provides a small amount of sputtering. Such sputtering keeps FLM surfaces relatively free of adatoms.



    Under the teachings of the present invention a thorough cleaning of the fusion elements and of the system components eliminates harmful activity or deposition of impurities from the system.

  • me356 said a few times that all the information he needed has been publicly available since years, but it was spread over several different patents and other publications. He just assemled the parts to his own reactor model.


    This could be one of them.

  • Under the teachings of the present invention a thorough cleaning of the fusion elements and of the system components eliminates harmful activity or deposition of impurities from the system.


    This conclusion about impurities being a problem is either something the author of the patent will have discovered through some kind of investigation or is an article of faith that has no empirical basis, as is usually the case.

  • From a really quick read the point of the patent seems to be that glow discharge may be able to implant ions of up to a few keV in the lattice, thus reaching higher internal pressures than with electrolytic experiments and potentially bypassing outside layers on the surface which prevent absorption in other cases.


    With SRIM I calculated that 3 keV protons would have a range of about 19 nanometers in Nickel.

  • Eneco is cited by some documents

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/commerce/eneco/eneco.shtml

    the company was banckrupted in 2008

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/c…008-Chapter11Petition.pdf


    It have filed many patents, some with Peter Hagelstein, with YR Kucherov , with Harold Aspden,

    https://www.google.com/search?…ssignee:%22Eneco,+Inc.%22


    I've noticed a thermionic converter (interesting with hot LENR) granted

    https://www.google.com/patents/CA2367686C?cl=en

    and similar application

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO2004036724A3?cl=en

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO2001069657A8?cl=en


    and a seebeck like application

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO2004084272A3?cl=en



    This application by Aspden seems LENR

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO1994028197A2?cl=en

    as this application from Kucherov

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO1998015986A3?cl=en

    as thsi application from RT Bush and RD Eagleton

    https://www.google.com/patents/EP0658268A4?cl=en

    as this with Kucherov and Kalandarichvill similar to the glow discharge cited here

    https://www.google.com/patents/WO1995021447A1?cl=en


    as this electrochemical cell by BY Liaw and BE Liebert bought to Future Energy Applied Tech Inc

    https://www.google.com/patents/EP0540694A1?cl=en



    They even have boron doped diamond technology

    (it could cause a revolution in water treatment if well developed, but it did not)

  • Thanks for the link to the patent. I find it fascinating.


    Basically, it seems to explain how not only to produce atomic hydrogen (H1) but to ionize the hydrogen into protons that can then slam onto a cathode (nickel or palladium) to induce nuclear reactions.


    It reminds me of the Cannon patent a lot, in that ions are drawn to the nickel or palladium "target."


    If Me356 is using a high frequency signal through his resistor to dissociate and ionize the gas inside his reactor, he is also giving the H1 and ions extra kinetic energy so they can penetrate more deeply into the nickel.

  • Basically, it seems to explain how not only to produce atomic hydrogen (H1) but to ionize the hydrogen into protons that can then slam onto a cathode (nickel or palladium) to induce nuclear reactions.


    I can only recommend to study again the famous Lipinski Patent ( WO2014189799) about Li-H+ fusion.

    It's a landmark and has been referenced here many times. Their explanation of the effect may be wrong, but compare it with glow-discharge!


    The link: Lipinski Li-H(+) fusion

  • I have studied the Lipinski patent. However, I think it is fundamentally different than the *base* Rossi Effect which is the induction of nuclear reactions inside tiny pockets in the nickel lattice by migrating protons. By producing lots of atomic hydrogen and ions via glow discharge, protons can be pushed deeply into the nickel lattice. This may not work if the nickel has not already been pre-conditioned to have these voids or spaces (perhaps by combinations of baking, oxidizing, vacuum degassing, flushing with hydrogen, etc). I don't think EM stimulation is required. Piantelli and Focardi performed some experiments with only DC power providing heat via a resistor and produced a COP of 2. Me356 also seems to indicate the EM stimulation is not an absolute requirement. For example, the decomposition of LiH or LiAlH4 can release atomic hydrogen that can be more rapidly absorbed into the nickel. I think that EM stimulation gives the effect another massive boost by adding more kinetic energy to the atomic hydrogen and ions.

  • I think this is a very important patent. Although it only touches on fuel pre-processing (by suggesting the cathode and other parts of the reactor be vacuumed degassed under heat or even sputtered clean by adding a small quantity of another gas other than hydrogen), the idea of using this technique to forcefully bombard protons onto the cathode really seems brilliant. In the document, the author discusses how P&F could only force hydrogen into a cathode with .8 volts of potential or possibly at most up to 2 volts. Someone please correct me, but this seems like a measurement of the kinetic energy of the proton as it is pushed into the cathode. With this system the author claims that a potential of up to 400 volts could be applied resulting in much more energy being given to the proton. The result would be...


    1) The proton could penetrate deeply into the surface of the cathode -- much more so than in an electrolytic cell.


    2) With such energies the proton would create pressures in the tiny gas filled spaces in the metal cathode far exceeding those achieved in electrolytic cells. These pressures could be important for triggering intense fusion processes.


    3) All of this could be performed at higher temperatures which could enhance the effect (100C for electrolysis vs. 900C in this glow discharge system).


    My guess is that such a system (if the cathode was preconditioned in the same manner Me356 condition his fuel) would produce a huge amount of excess heat once fine tuned. But I see a connection to basic powder systems as well. The RFGs in the E-Cats of the one megawatt plant and the "frequencies" applied to other reactors could be producing a similar effect by helping dissociate hydrogen into H1 and increasing the kinetic energy of such particles. Since gas ionizes more easily at higher temperatures, if you're already at a very high temperature it might not take much of a push to produce a weak glow discharge effect. Also, once the E-Cat reaction is started, I wonder if any particle emissions from the fuel or gamma radiation (combined with the heat from the reactor) could combine to keep the gas ionized to continually keep protons of higher kinetic energy penetrating the surface of the nickel. Could this be one part of the self sustain effect? Simply exciting the hydrogen in the environment?

  • The interesting thing about this patent is that it is over 20 years old and was never granted. I'm not an expert in patent law, but someone who knows more than myself told me that this technology is now in the public domain because if a patent isn't granted no one else can come along and patent it themselves. Is this correct? Is this one reason why Me356 may have not pursued the pure glow discharge version of his technology -- because it could never be patented?


    Does this patent prohibit patenting of any glow discharge based system?

  • THEDEBATE,


    Patent law is very complex as you say, and if LENR is ever accepted it will add another layer, or two, of complexity. Almost since FPs there have been patent applications submitted, and most if not all have been rejected. As you may recall, the USPTO ran a secret program called SAWS -I think that was the acronym, that was designed to kill publicly controversial patent requests such as LENR related. SAWS was made public a few years back, and then shortly thereafter discontinued.


    So there is a big backlog of these older, rejected applications laying in wait. I would think that once LENR is accepted, and the LENR floodgates open, in many cases these older researchers (if still alive) would have a legal argument for "prior art",...even though time is limited out. That may come as a surprise to many of the present day LENR researchers who thought they were doing something novel, only to find that someone else beat them to it. It could be a real mess to sort it all out, and costly.


    Even if they do have something novel, the cost to get a patent approved is costly, and after approval it takes more money to defend against the sharks that are sure to circle. The lone garage tinkerer like an me356, would not stand a chance in that environment, and IMO are wasting their time going secret for that reason. If they truly think they have something and can prove it, they need to partner up with someone, or something with the deep pockets needed to fight the costly legal battles sure to come.


    Only one safe it seems, may be BLP, as they have such a unique approach, I don't think anyone has gone down their road before.

  • About patenting cold fusion, I remember vaguely (who said that?) that technology like cold fusion, cannot be patented.

    Not only you cannot patent a phenomenon but a process to exploit it, but the development of such technology takes more than 20 years, and most early patent expires, letting the core technology free to exploit.

    However many people will patent details, improvement, optimizations, variations, creating an open industry, a market for innovation.

    None of those invention will lock the whole market, but companies will be happy to pay for license if the price is good.


    If someone can find the source of that idea...

  • The most interesting point of this patent is that the protons can be accelerated into the lattice with an energy far beyond what is capable in an electrolytic system.


    2.0 volt vs. 400 volt or higher.


    Does anyone know how to compare electrolytic cells to gas phase hydrogen loading with only heat and pressure (no EM stimulation)?


    Would it be correct to say that electrolytic cells can load hydrogen into metals with much more force than a simple gas phase system using only pressure and heat?


    Since there is not exactly a voltage differential in gas loading cells (that do not utilize EM stimulation) how can we compare the kinetic energy of the hydrogen atoms to those in electrolytic cells?


    I actually read an interesting paper last night about how Ed Storms has tested a glow discharge system and produced high energy (.8 megaelectron volts) particles.


    If the palladium, nickel, or other lattice has been properly prepared to create the appropriately sized dislocations or cavities, I think this patent could explain one method of producing a more powerful reaction.

  • ".....energy far beyond what is capable in an electrolytic system.


    2.0 volt vs. 400 volt or higher."



    Thanks for keeping this level of discussion alive. There are important possible distinctions here. The electrolytic "Nernst pressure" compared with the deceleration energy experienced by an electron or proton collision with a condensed matter surface. While admiting that some aspect here may be unifying, my recollection is that a Nernst overpotential nearing even 1 volt can result in immense pressure at or near the electrode surface, Tadahiko Mizuno mentions this and has it as far greater than the solar core. While the Lipinski's see their highest Q values (surrogate for COP) of thousands in the presence of square wave potentials and argon admixture.


    One key metric implicit here is that potential gradients at the interfaces involved is best comparatively measured as " volts per cm" or the equivalent. That is the steepness of the gradient is a key parameter.

  • A video supposedly from ME356


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/03/12/me356-emerging/


    This is looking very odd.

    1: Supposedly very well off financially, supporting his own research, purchasing expensive equipment. This video does not look like it took place in

    a typical R&D setting. More like an old basement. Not that this proves anything, other than it seems rather odd for someone with high finance.


    2: Several claims have came from ME356, but no real data nor evidence. This is a big concern.


    3: "Teasers" released periodically.


    Why would anyone release this video? It shows absolutely nothing. I could make a better video in an hour using my wife's clothes steamer! It makes no sense and lends no credence.


    Serious researchers such as Magicsound and Ed Storms do not do this! They may post comments or give updates on occasion, but these are meaningful and clear messages. I do not understand this approach. When theater is involved, there is some type of "show" always being put on! :/

  • ME356 uses a unmanned remotely controlled experimental area. He may want to minimize the cost of the structure by using what is at hand on his property.


    waste not, want not...if you use a commodity or resource carefully and without extravagance, you will never be in need.

  • Bob Greenyer has explained more than once that Me356 does much of his testing in a shed or building located on his property far away from his main residence. One reason for this is the fact he believe in some cases this technology can produce possibly harmful emissions. Do not judge his equipment or setup just because the building itself -- which looks to be of stone construction -- is old.


    I think Me356 wants to keep his promise and share the information he has promised us, but I also think there are other issues that are prohibiting him from doing so. Part of it is fear of the government clamping down on such research, another fear is what he considers to be safety concerns, and another is the fear of doing all his work with no "return" for the money and time he has invested.

  • Bob Greenyer has explained more than once that Me356 does much of his testing in a shed or building located on his property far away from his main residence. One reason for this is the fact he believe in some cases this technology can produce possibly harmful emissions. Do not judge his equipment or setup just because the building itself -- which looks to be of stone construction -- is old.


    I think Me356 wants to keep his promise and share the information he has promised us, but I also think there are other issues that are prohibiting him from doing so. Part of it is fear of the government clamping down on such research, another fear is what he considers to be safety concerns, and another is the fear of doing all his work with no "return" for the money and time he has invested.

    It seems to me, that the means and the goals of the discussions about the development and application of the LENR technology needs explicit anaisys.


    Me356 has made decisions about his relationships with LENR development and its eventual application. Are those considerations consistent with the primary goals of the LENR endeavor? What is the primary goals of the LENR endeavor? There is little agreement and consensus about what this goal is among the members of this forum.

  • Quote

    This video does not look like it took place in a typical R&D setting. More like an old basement.


    Providing that his setup generates neutrons, which would make most metals radioactive, I wouldn't get very surprised, if me356 would move all his experiments into the basement.

    After all, he did utilize a similar brick-walled room before one year already...


    40zsHzNl.jpg


    Note the freshly made hole in the brick wall behind the reactor - it's made for "remote" manipulation with reactor from outside the fireplace ventilated into chimney, where the reactor is placed..

    IIRC Bob Greenyer said that me356 conducts his experiments in a shed away from his main property by remote control. Well, at least the blue wire ends in the hole behind the wall.

    It's actually quite clever arrangement, as the chimney provides perpetual draught. He apparently deals with really dangerous stuff.

  • ME356 uses a unmanned remotely controlled experimental area

    A person was standing there recording on what appears to be a smart phone. So it was not "unmanned".


    Do not judge his equipment or setup just because the building itself -- which looks to be of stone construction -- is old.

    A person has significant finance. He believes he has a device that if real, could prove to be one of the most revolutionary technologies in history. So what does he do, uses an old barn with imprecise environmental conditions to house his expensive and sensitive equipment in and runs tests by himself. You really believe this is logical? Do you think Elon Musk, designed Tesla cars in his basement?


    Bill Gates did work out of a garage at first, because he did not have a lot of money. He did not work by himself, the garage location soon was replaced and now he is one of the richest men in the world. He no longer works in garages nor did he work there for very long even at the beginning. If a person has significant finances and what he has is worth billions of dollars, he would not be tinkering around with it by himself in some makeshift room. He would push it to market utilizing the resources needed and available.


    Rossi got 10.5 million. Brillouin got 7.5 million. BLP has got who knows how many million. If I had a reactor that I could demonstrate it worked, I too would have millions and a first class laboratory.


    We can really want something to be true, but we have to open our eyes. Something is wrong with this picture. Personally people who deserve our support and attention are the Magicsounds and Matheiu Valet (sp)!

  • Quote

    but we have to open our eyes. Something is wrong with this picture


    Me356 is from Ukraine, so I can see too much English all around this picture. He also did use a simple laser thermometer before year (note the bright spots at his picture bellow) - now he utilizes thermocamera with resolution higher than 256x400pxs.

    Such a thermocameras are still quite costly.


    2jiC4X5.jpg


    Before year Me356 did also utilize transparent glass pipe, probably because such a pipe can be sealed and evacuated easily. Now he utilizes ceramic pipe, which would imply, he does his experiments at room pressure already?

  • Quote

    A person was standing there recording on what appears to be a smart phone. So it was not "unmanned".


    Obviously he goes in and out from time to time. Experiments don't conduct themselves and apparatuses don't construct themselves.


    Quote

    A person has significant finance. He believes he has a device that if
    real, could prove to be one of the most revolutionary technologies in
    history. So what does he do, uses an old barn with imprecise
    environmental conditions to house his expensive and sensitive equipment
    in and runs tests by himself. You really believe this is logical? Do you
    think Elon Musk, designed Tesla cars in his basement?


    Yes, it is perfectly logical. First of all, although Me356 is financially comfortable, I do not think he is rich. Being a business owner doesn't make him a multi-millionaire or billionaire. Secondly, this technology is fundamentally simple and doesn't require a massive lab. So if you don't require a massive lab -- especially if you are not the CEO of a company like General Electric or a university professor -- then why not use an outdoor shed that is on your own property?




    Yes, he would be working on it in a very solid, sturdy building on his property. This is not a make-shift room or a flimsy shack. Secondly, even if the technology is worth a billion dollars, Me356 might not have the same obsessive compulsion to maximize earnings from his technology. He may have other motivations as well. Additionally, he has stated all the information he used to get the device working is already available in patents, published papers, and various literature. He has stated that his technology may very well be unpatentable. There is NOTHING unreasonable about him working in a lab on his own property.


    Quote

    Rossi got 10.5 million. Brillouin got 7.5 million. BLP has got who knows
    how many million. If I had a reactor that I could demonstrate it
    worked, I too would have millions and a first class laboratory.




    You just revealed your primary motivation -- obtaining millions. Perhaps Me356 has others. I know if I came up with a paradigm shattering invention tomorrow, my primary motivation would NOT be making money. And you know what? Knowing that there are many groups in this world zooming around sucking up intellectual property, I might keep working quietly for a while out of fear they may try to stop my progress. My hope would be at some point I could distribute a guaranteed to work formula that would allow the technology to proliferate wildly.


    Nothing is wrong with this picture.

  • Bob Greeneyer claimed at some point that the "breakthrough" of understanding came when me356 bought his very own SEM (scanning electron microscope) to analyze the ash. So he seems to be investing quite a lot of money into his research. He was however said to finance and do his research all by himself (which i would not nessecarily relate to fraudulent behaviour).

    If he would just be an "attention whore" making false claims to get some "fame" in a forum he would most probably show up more often. I tend to at least take into account the remote possibillity that he might be on to sth.

  • You just revealed your primary motivation -- obtaining millions.


    Defining the goal at the bottom of a chain of reasoning is critical to understand if that chain of reasoning is logical for a given situation. Such a determination is important to establish empathy for the positions of others.


    Me356 might have a goal of relieving suffering and disease in the villages of Africa. The "obtaining millions" motivation may be misdirected. A LENR system in an African village is well put brings fresh water pumping power, lighting, and educational aids such as computer power on a 24/7 rain or shine basis.


    My big concern is muon production in LENR, but that is a far lesser concern than the havoc caused by cholera and other impure water problems that muon production might play a bigger role in a high density and congested big city like London and New York.