# SAFIRE, SUNCELL, E-CAT SK: Three reactors, three theories, one common unifying mechanism - the EVO (Exotic Vacuum Object). [Brown's Gas Joins the Club!]

• Therefore, the most logical proposition is that there is a mass not described by the standard model which can be converted to energy by waves and which can convert the energy of wave back to mass and which tends to preserve conservation of energy and mass.

The problem is that the equation e=mc2 in fact should be written E=dmc2 where dm is the derivative (or in simple cases the delta of two masses). E is always photon(phonon) energy. In SO(4) physics the energy mass relation is much more complicated. Already R.Mills found the conversion factor for photon energy to nuclear mass. It is of course different from the stone age formula. But real (EM-) mass stored in atoms does 2,3,4 (2x2) or 5 rotations. All these masses are not conform with E=mc2. You need to apply the metric factor for a conversion to photon mass.

If you use such a proper conversion you can directly calculated gamma levels (energy) of some simple isotopes .

• The problem is that the equation e=mc2 in fact should be written E=dmc2 where dm is the derivative (or in simple cases the delta of two masses). E is always photon(phonon) energy. In SO(4) physics the energy mass relation is much more complicated. Already R.Mills found the conversion factor for photon energy to nuclear mass. It is of course different from the stone age formula. But real (EM-) mass stored in atoms does 2,3,4 (2x2) or 5 rotations. All these masses are not conform with E=mc2. You need to apply the metric factor for a conversion to photon mass.

If you use such a proper conversion you can directly calculated gamma levels (energy) of some simple isotopes .

How does this explain, in the current hazy realm of LENR, transmutation and interesting chemical energy sources, positive and unpredictable results after many experiments? Less thermal production than expected and more elemental changes than expected. Of course, in the case of no transmutations there's a potential chemical source, as long as hydrogen and catalysts are present. Whether it is E=mc^2 or E=dmc^2 (I won't pretend to understand the implications) how does this affect energy production or matter manipulation outside of the math?

• Hydrogen/dense hydrogen electron levels and exotic matter states could act as buffers/catalysts/storage in the process. A couple properties could help to absorb energy before it is used for a reaction, condensed into matter or released into the surrounding medium. Very little talk on matter-energy-matter reactions in general?

• @Director Regarding SAFIRE two cathodes and anode destruction... In listening to Monty's talks, I'm quite certain I heard him say words to the effect that only one cathode is needed and they know how to keep the anode from being affected. My reasons for starting with the spherical/hollow/H2 anode is because that's what they did. I believe they were generating excess heat without damaging the anode. Once one gets results like those seen in their videos, one can start incrementally, little by little making changes and hopefully improvements.

• @Director Regarding SAFIRE two cathodes and anode destruction... In listening to Monty's talks, I'm quite certain I heard him say words to the effect that only one cathode is needed and they know how to keep the anode from being affected. My reasons for starting with the spherical/hollow/H2 anode is because that's what they did. I believe they were generating excess heat without damaging the anode. Once one gets results like those seen in their videos, one can start incrementally, little by little making changes and hopefully improvements.

The issue you might want to consider: Is SAFIRE the optimum system to produce energy from the LENR reaction?

• JohnO,

The problem I see is that I don't in any of the SAFIRE Projects configurations they will be able to make the macro-EVO detach from the anode and become free floating. First, I think the geometry of their configurations is a problem. Secondly, I think they haven't even attempted to tune their system into resonance to maximize the self-organization of the plasma ball and the amplitude of the ion acoustic oscillations. I think the simplest and most straightforward manner for anyone to proceed would be to have a length of tubing (quartz or whatever) with one electrode at each end. When the system is tuned into resonance, the plasma ball with double layers will detach from either the anode or cathode and start free floating between the two. This way the system can be driven as hard as we want without damaging the electrodes.

• Recent SAFIRE disclosures from Monty have served to confirm my thinking that the power supply is DC with adjustable voltage and current limiting features (standard laboratory equipment). Getting the plasma to operate in the negative resistance regime is primarily a matter of adjusting the current limit to prevent it from going beyond that region/regime. The voltage limit need only be set high enough to enable the plasma to ignite. After ignition, the voltage will float below the limit and at the operating point chosen by the current limit. At least until proven otherwise, I believe the anode should be hollow and spherical and pressurized with H2 to deliver elemental H into the plasma. I would start with an iron anode with as few impurities as practical.

I think under certain conditions it might also be possible to do this with a standard constant-voltage switching power supply, mainly because many tend to have their voltage sagging slightly under load, especially inductive loads. By adjusting electrode gap so that the electrodes barely touch and initiate the reaction then it's possible (likely depending on the properties of the electrodes and the power supply) to observe an oscillating behavior with the plasma going into an incomplete arc regime at a high frequency, with significant production of electromagnetic emission that can be listened acoustically from the gap and the power supply itself, or with a transistor radio in both the AM and FM range. If a full arc develops, all noise stops.

Is this actually the expected behavior of getting the plasma in the negative differential resistance regime? I'm not sure, but earlier I made a video of the above process using graphite electrodes with some alkali impurities from previous tests.

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• Is this actually the expected behavior of getting the plasma in the negative differential resistance regime?

Well that is interesting... Can you tell me the make/model of the power supply you used? I'm just wonder what its specs/characteristics are.

• It's a 12V DC switching power supply originally intended for usage with computers (switching frequency 150 kHz): a Corsair HX520W manufactured in 2006. Upon further testing I think a large contributor to the effect observed is that the graphite electrodes vibrate under these conditions, so in reality it's not entirely due to the electrical characteristics of the power supply and electrodes, but also the physical characteristics of the electrodes.

Still, I think this sort of physical vibration could be a close enough approximation to what would happen with a constant-current power supply. I suspect that operation in the negative differential resistance region would be highly unstable and as a result the plasma would oscillate between two states depending on how quickly the power supply can regulate current. This should cause large amounts of electromagnetic noise similar to what happens in the video I posted.

EDIT: to clarify, with negative differential resistance region I mean the one after point I and before the plateau near point J in the following graph from Wikipedia:

Edited once, last by can ().

• The issue you might want to consider: Is SAFIRE the optimum system to produce energy from the LENR reaction?

Another question, is solid fuel rods in a pressurised water reactor the most optimum way of producing fission energy from uranium? It isn't, but its good enough to make a comercial product with significant advantages. The worst implimentation of a working LENR device or a similar other technology is more fruitful than current sources. Sometimes while in a rush to find the most optimum we look over what's right in front of us.

• EDIT: to clarify, with negative differential resistance region I mean the one after point I and before the plateau near point J in the following graph from Wikipedia:

The "point" references didn't seem to come through correctly... Negative resistance region would be between D and G. The region from G to I, a positive resistance region, may also be interesting, And perhaps an oscillation between F and H.

Bob Greenyer recently posted a YouTube thing of a number of DC powered plasma experiments done by Renzi Mondaini who called it "Cold Fusion Reactions" and done with two electrodes, anode and cathode, in various electrolytes. Appears to be very easy to replicate and produces some very interesting plasmas similar the ones you generated. You can find it here: https://e-catworld.com/2019/11…uman-update-bob-greenyer/

• Before anyone jumps into these, I suggest looking at my comments on the thread  Summary: Who is actually doing a replication attempt? , where I note that the glass melting experiment is nothing unusual and the sulphur from oxygen may be a mistake. Doesn't mean that they're all bogus, however; the transmutations are certainly worth trying.

• Bob Greenyer recently posted a YouTube thing of a number of DC powered plasma experiments done by Renzi Mondaini who called it "Cold Fusion Reactions" and done with two electrodes, anode and cathode, in various electrolytes. Appears to be very easy to replicate and produces some very interesting plasmas similar the ones you generated.

If you do not properly separate H/O then you get nice recombination plasma as seen in the movie... No magic.

LENR can (could) only be proven if a proper MS is done. Calorimetry is not necessarily a proof in case there is no net excess energy. I also did miss the gamma spectrometer and a neutron counter...

• The "point" references didn't seem to come through correctly... Negative resistance region would be between D and G. The region from G to I, a positive resistance region, may also be interesting, And perhaps an oscillation between F and H.

I meant operation in the region corresponding to the steep dashed line in the arc discharge section. The graph was from this page, if the one above does not work correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…voltage_curve_English.svg

Bob Greenyer recently posted a YouTube thing of a number of DC powered plasma experiments done by Renzi Mondaini who called it "Cold Fusion Reactions" and done with two electrodes, anode and cathode, in various electrolytes. Appears to be very easy to replicate and produces some very interesting plasmas similar the ones you generated. You can find it here: https://e-catworld.com/2019/11…uman-update-bob-greenyer/

I don't recall watching Mondaini's videos before in their entirety (despite them being around for many years), so I just did.

To me these experiments look like Mizuno-style plasma electrolysis, in that above a threshold voltage the electrodes appear to short-circuit at a high frequency instead of performing electrolysis, here too with abundant production of electromagnetic noise. When voltage drops back enough, the reaction stops and electrolysis/electrodeposition starts again. I can see how in a way they might be similar to the reaction observed with graphite electrodes in air.

In Mondaini's case apparently in the process works best when the immersed cathode (-) surface is only a fraction of that of the anode (+). It's not mentioned directly, at least in the videos, but I think he's using rectified AC with a large variac that goes up to 350V at a few A. Similarly to the Mizuno plasma electroylsis experiments (or any other experiment with arcing electrodes), electrode consumption is fast.

Possibly the actual voltage from which the reaction starts will depend on electrode gap, electrolyte concentration, surface area ratio between the electrodes.

The experiment seems straightforward to replicate but there might be some safety concerns due to the high voltages involved; a suitable variac might not be cheap, and a proper setup that will improve the safety of using one will increase costs.

Before anyone jumps into these, I suggest looking at my comments on the thread Summary: Who is actually doing a replication attempt? , where I note that the glass melting experiment is nothing unusual and the sulphur from oxygen may be a mistake. Doesn't mean that they're all bogus, however; the transmutations are certainly worth trying.

Oftentimes excess heat is also claimed in plasma-type reactions in aqueous solution like Mondaini's, but measuring it reliably is not straightforward. Soda-lime glass is indeed known to be a ionic conductor, and it could be that the high voltage used makes it easy to initiate conduction.

• If you do not properly separate H/O then you get nice recombination plasma as seen in the movie... No magic.

Ordinary electrolytic processes (gas evolution from electrolysis and electrodeposition) appear to stop when the plasma starts. To me these reactions (not just here but also in other systems and to some extent also in personal tests at low voltage) look as if they are the result of the electrodes intermittently short-circuiting.

See both electrodes here from minute 6:08 when Mondaini starts decreasing voltage from a high point:

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• The "point" references didn't seem to come through correctly... Negative resistance region would be between D and G. The region from G to I, a positive resistance region, may also be interesting, And perhaps an oscillation between F and H.

Bob Greenyer recently posted a YouTube thing of a number of DC powered plasma experiments done by Renzi Mondaini who called it "Cold Fusion Reactions" and done with two electrodes, anode and cathode, in various electrolytes. Appears to be very easy to replicate and produces some very interesting plasmas similar the ones you generated. You can find it here: https://e-catworld.com/2019/11…uman-update-bob-greenyer/

My understanding is that the negative resistance region is between I and J.

• My understanding is that the negative resistance region is between I and J.

That is also a negative resistance region, one that is much more extreme/radical and at much higher current (note that the current axis is logarithmic). It is also beyond the 'Glow Discharge' region and into Arc. My un-educated guess is that it is between D and H that is conducive to plasma 'self organization' and the desired results. I'm guessing that beyond H or J, it's getting into an area that is destructive of the desired 'self organization' and a point of 'no return'.

• I won't say that I'm 100% correct or that nothing can happen in glow discharge. But my understanding is that the magic happens between I and J. It is there where self organization takes place because it HAS TO. The complex space charge configuration has to form to convert heat into electrical current to sustain the circuit during the period of extreme negative resistance. This is where the self organization takes place.

• Look at the graph attached to the first post. You'll have to click on it and download it to view it. The second half of the extreme curve where it's about to turn into an arc discharge is the important zone. That is why the negative resistance regime has been engineered out of most devices: it's easy for it to go straight into an arc discharge. Of course the slope of these curves will be different for every gas combination. Moreover, when you are producing anomalous excess energy via LENR it's likely to change even more - because when excess energy is being generated you'll be able to drop the input current/voltage down to almost nothing due to the energy being self produced via LENR. That's why Rossi's COP is so high.

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