Hydrogen / Oxygen explosion?

  • I have seen some explosions while doing cold fusion tests, and now I think the reason could be thermionic electron emission from the hot metal combined with some water vapor, that is coming from hydrogen electrolysis. So water -> oxygen -> explosion. Is this possible, i.e. how much energy is in the electrons emitted vs. H2O molecule splitting energy? If possible, what is the critical temperature for this to happen?

  • Oxy - hydrogen mixes are just plain unstable. I had one electrolyser that would explode internally every time I switched it off. Probably something to do with collapsing current/back EMF but I could never pin it down.

  • Yes but where does the oxygen come from? I have been separating oxygen and hydrogen, so there should be no oxygen in the reaction jar, but still sometimes explodes, and i think with high temp, like 700 C. There is also some ignition temperature limit for the mix, once it has been created.


    Switching off makes sense if switch or wire gap is in contact with the gas, since typically switch off creates short high voltage spike due to inductance.

  • Current setup: There is K2CO3 water below, and anode is separated from cathode so that anode bubbles oxygen out of the system, and cathode bubbles H2 into reaction jar. Then I have hot wire (for example nickel) and I heat the wire with current after the jar is filled with hydrogen. I start by filling jar with water to make sure there is no oxygen.


    One possibility for oxygen is some overpotential in cathode, is that possible?


    Another possibility is electrolysis of water vapor, but that would require high voltage I guess.


    Also thought about using car oxygen sensor (lambda sensor) to directly measure.

  • The method is interesting, a good many blue moons ago when I was working as a bacteriology technician we used a similar arrangement when culturing anaerobic bacteria. Seeded culture media were placed into an airtight can which was then flushed through with hydrogen. Next step was to close the valves and switch on a naked nichrome heating coil that was inside the can -this was to remove remaining oxygen by recombination on the surface of the hot wire. Then the whole thing was put into an incubator to let the bugs do their stuff. Did it lots of times, as we had a public health contract to look for dangerous pathogens in sewage sludge. Never went bang on my watch.

  • Current setup: There is K2CO3 water below, and anode is separated from cathode so that anode bubbles oxygen out of the system, and cathode bubbles H2 into reaction jar.

    Thinking this product is 2H, not H2 (H_sub_2), which makes the 2H 'combustible' (how say 'combine to form H_sub_2') with itself under proper conditions ...

  • Thinking this product is 2H, not H2 (H_sub_2), which makes the 2H 'combustible' (how say 'combine to form H_sub_2') with itself under proper conditions

    Been considering that too. Awhile back I built a solid PTFE chemical (Zinc-HCl) hydrogen generator. The 3 litre gas space above the liquid would sometimes show a sudden and quite large pressure drop and a simultaneous rise in temperature. Then I discovered that PTFE inhibits the recombination of monatomic hydrogen. That explains the effect (perhaps) but there was no explosion.

  • You might look at SG gas as a possible explanation. SG Gas Technology | Water Ion Technologies. SG gas could be produced if your current source is a pulsed DC. It is basically water which has in addition to normal ionic bonding has a strong magnetic bonding. The magnetic bonding causes the loss of hydrogen bonding with other water molecules. Hence the water becomes a gas. This happens when the current pulses are so short that most the power goes to polarization (magnetic field) rather that causing electrolysis. When a spark is applied to SG gas, its excited state (magnetic state) decays, it becomes water. What you would see is not an explosion but an implosion. In fact, with a hot wire a slow controlled loss of volume is possible. With pure SG gas, the only product of reaction is water.

  • That's what I'm doing, how water and oil are formed, look at my research here

    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • I have not yet reached oxygen, I still need to work with the fluid from the formation and the gas. 3 seconds of reactor operation appeared ...

  • The 3 litre gas space above the liquid would sometimes show a sudden and quite large pressure drop and a simultaneous rise in temperature. Then I discovered that PTFE inhibits the recombination of monatomic hydrogen. That explains the effect (perhaps) but there was no explosion.

    Why would there be pressure drop? It remains a gas.

    Increased temperature would compensate for recombination when it comes to gas pressure. The H2 molecules move faster due to increased temperature compensating for the decreased number of particles in the volume.


    There is only one effect I know of that could occur given the observations of Alan in his case (assuming there is no oxygen present): the formation of ultra dense hydrogen from atomic hydrogen condensation .
    That would cause volume decrease and at the same time temperature increase due to the condensation energy.

    (yes, I know, I am a bit biased when it comes to UDH ;) )


    zenner : would it be possible to make a short video showing the effect?

    Also, have a look at @can 's thread on low voltage plasma electrolysis. Some of his videos may be illustrative.

  • the formation of ultra dense hydrogen from atomic hydrogen condensation .

    What is your catalyst in this case? Mills use nascent water to accept the energy - the energy xfer (output) is non-radiative, as it is for the 2H -> H2 change, requiring a 'body' or mass (as some textxbooks put it) to accept the thermal energy.

  • What is your catalyst in this case?

    The required conditions and possible required catalysts are not yet clear to anyone.

    Holmlid suggests the mechanism to create ultra dense hydrogen occurs via Rydberg states and matter using alkali metals as a possible catalyst.

    Others suggest strong a combination of release of absorbed hydrogen from various metals (e.g. nickel, palladium) combined with a strong local magnetic field is required. As far as my own thoughts, the presence of a so called double layer may be required (present in e.g. electrochemical electrolysis and plasma setups).

    In the case of Alan Smith or zenner details lack to point to a possible condition that matches these examples.

  • Hi Rob. In my own case there was no plasma involved, the electrolytes were either potassium or sodium carbonates, so some of the conditions (including the presence of PTFE, a known re-combination inhibitor.)


    On the topic of the pressure drop, I didn't at the time have anything in place to work out exactly how much it dropped - but the point is that it dropped suddenly and to below ambient pressure, resulting in water being sucked back out of the bubble tower which the hydrogen was being fed into. The temperature rise is actually a good clue that something odd is occurring- since a pressure drop cause by (for example) venting a gas tank normally causes the tank temperature to fall, not rise.

  • The required conditions and possible required catalysts are not yet clear to anyone.

    Oh. I didn't realize the knowledge of Dr. Mills' discoveries weren't universal. He has written extensively on this, and this is the basis for which he has labored since the 1990's, with the 'effect' (extracting energy from monatomic Hydrogen atom to below its QM-recognized 'ground state') with the present success showing in his latest 250 kW boiler demonstrations. Around 2016 Mills was able to get reaction rates (with his chosen catalyst) to levels that make scaling devices economical up to utility scale.