ENG8 - new plasma energy system

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    https://www.iep.pt/humanos/Certificados_SF6.pdf

    This does not appear to be a list of IEP employees. It seems to be a list of employees of other companies that have been "certified" to work at a particular technical level, probably having attended a course run by the IEP. (In this case, a course in the handling and recovery of SF6 from high voltage switchgear.)


    Of the names on the IEP report:


    Modesto de Morais | LinkedIn
    Check out professional insights posted by Modesto de Morais, Manager of the IEP Research, Innovation and Development Center
    www.linkedin.com


    https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiagoteixeira9/

    (Energy Specialist Technician at the Sustainability & Energy Department (LME-SE) of IEP.)


    https://pt.linkedin.com/in/teresa-canelas-1165b710

    (Manager of the sustainability and energy department.)

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Edited 5 times, last by Frogfall ().

    Given the very cautious language in the certificate what they actually certify (actually not to much) it appears valid to me. Especially they are not certifying the calorimetric measurement setup.


    In doubt, just mail eip directly and ask if they confirm if the certificate is a valid certificate issued by them. The certificate has a number and it should be available in their database when valid.

    Quote from Kursiv

    Given the very cautious language in the certificate what they actually certify (actually not to much) it appears valid to me. Especially they are not certifying the calorimetric measurement setup.

    They have certainly done what they were contracted to do - turn up, check, monitor, and record instruments - then write a report.


    From their linkedin profiles, it is clear that all three have an electrical or electronics background - so, to be fair, they were in no real position to make a judgement on the fluid dynamics aspects of the apparatus. And the erroneous air Cp values, in the original calculations, certainly indicates that they are not thermodynamicists.

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Thanks 3 Like 2
    Quote from Wyttenbach

    https://www.iep.pt/humanos/Certificados_SF6.pdf

    IMHO, a healthy amount of skepticism is fair. Especially considering the decades of leg pulling going on from various parties about LENR.
    However,

    at the end of the day "The best predictor of performance, is performance itself"

    We can measure all the thermal output forever, ultimately it means nothing until converted into mechanical or namely electrical energy as that is the energy that was put in to start the reaction. So forgive me as I'm an engineer and deal with what actually does something in the world... All of these tests mean absolutely nothing until an apparatus is constructed to return energy in the manner given, then we can judge the effectiveness based on the amount of energy returned in the format given.

    IE, if I put in 100W and I get out 101W or 200W or 400W then in the words of one of my favorite rappers E40, "It is what it is".

    I'm confused about why "they" (Eng8 or whomever) are not focused on just making the full device.

    I get there are efficiency losses in energy conversion, etc, etc. But who cares? Those losses are something we were always going to have to deal with anyways, and it's better to start looking at and optimizing the entire picture. If the losses can't be overcome to make this "work" then it doesn't work.

    Seems simple enough to me. Then keep running tests bi-weekly with a slack channel or other open forum for suggestions on how to reduce the losses of conversion.

    Quote from Kieran Cox

    I get there are efficiency losses in energy conversion, etc, etc. But who cares? Those losses are something we were always going to have to deal with anyways, and it's better to start looking at and optimizing the entire picture. If the losses can't be overcome to make this "work" then it doesn't work.

    What you say is totally correct but you know that with anything with a COP less than 5 making a working device given the heat to mechanical or electrical conversion efficiencies, is a dead end.


    This has been always a "chicken or egg" problem. Proving a higher than 1 COP to gain interest and increase research that will in turn allow to attain higher COPs, has faced the "pseudoscience" skepticism, and so, this is where the entire field is at the moment. This is why others have preferred to develop energy saving products, if you have a COP of 2 you can develop an electric heater that uses half the electricity than a normal one. This is Clean Planet's (a Japanese LENR company this forum follows) strategy at the moment.


    ENG8s claims and their IP conflict with Biaco, unfortunately, have not helped much as they have not been able to support their claims. This is just my personal opinion.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

    Like 2 Thanks 1
    Quote from Curbina

    What you say is totally correct but you know that with anything with a COP less than 5 making a working device given the heat to mechanical or electrical conversion efficiencies, is a dead end.

    While I can't speak to needing a COP >= 5 for a working device I can say that I need not look at that to see if a device works. The losses/efficiencies of steam turbine (Tesla or traditional) are well known and there are a multitude of designs.

    I need only look at the electrical output after converting back to the energy used. No need for excessive fancy lab testing looking at all the little fun details.

    The first thing that should happen is you plug your LENR up to an electricity generating steam turbine of proportional size and show me electricity coming out... consistently for some determined about of time (like hours).

    You show me more than 1 watt coming out for every 1 watt going in, and an open test ran say 20 times for like 10hrs each time... then I'm interested. Then, and only then, should the challenging to measure/quantify/guarantee/control-for lab tests ensue. Anything less should be cavalierly ignored.

    Really the baseline should be something like 500W going in, to change the world we need some "workable" volume of power to begin with.

    If for example Eng8's claims are true, then that setup is neither hard, nor expensive to create and run....*repeatedly* and in public

    Not sure it is new, but I've seen this article on ENG8
    https://www.rivieramm.com/news…elopments-presented-78485


    LENR nuclear power developments presented

    10 Nov 2023 by Martyn Wingrove


    Future tugs and workboats could be powered by small modular reactors producing pressure pulses and hydrogen

    “Only puny secrets need keeping. The biggest secrets are kept by public incredulity.” (Marshall McLuhan)
    twitter @alain_co

    We looked at this before, but taking another look at the article reminded me to look up the other company besides ENG8, Italy based Ground Control Holding Partners - Ground Control Holding ,that presented at the recent European tugboat conference. They are teamed up with the private innovative center https://www.kilometrorosso.com/en/ . to develop the LENR based UM 3.0 Prometheus reactor according to the article. Not much more known about their tech without seeing the presentation.


    As with ENG8, and Biaco, they came out of nowhere and only recently came to our attention. GCH does seem legit, as they work with other companies, and in this case have teamed up with the well respected Kilometro Rosso. If anything more pops up about them, I will open a dedicated thread about them.

    Quote from Frogfall

    I don't know how amenable ITV Yorkshire (the successor to Yorkshire Television) would be to requests for archive footage. I might try contacting them (I actually live in the area).

    After two months, my query finally reached the right department. No success yet, but at least I'm a step closer to obtaining that 1970s TV clip.


    Quote from email

    Thanks for your enquiry and apologies for the long delay in replying.

    Please could you let me have a description of the footage that you're looking for and the subject of the feature it was linked to? Also, please let me know why you are specifically seeking this particular clip?

    I've replied in some detail, so we'll now have to wait a bit longer, and see what happens.

    "The most misleading assumptions are the ones you don't even know you're making" - Douglas Adams

    Thanks 3

    You may remeber that ENG8 gave a demo at Culham Labs, home of the Jet torus reactor. I was told by ground staff there that they had already moved a lot of the peripherals and shipped them to Europe (CERN, ITER?)


    This is the official version.


    .

    How to disassemble a fusion reactor

    Scientists have started to decommission the United Kingdom’s Joint European Torus (JET) — one of the world’s foremost nuclear-fusion reactors — 40 years after it began operations. The process will take 17 years and will prioritize reusing and recycling parts — and use the knowledge to make sure future fusion power plants are safe and financially viable. JET taught scientists about how to build and fuel ITER, the ambitious US$22-billion fusion reactor in France, which scientists aim to have up and running in the 2030s.

    Nature | 5 min read

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Klimov has allegedly complained that ENG8 are using his technology., he has a couple of apers in LENR-canr.org I think. Boddeker is a new name to me. Good find.

    I wouldn't be surprised, since A. Klimov's publications involving energetics on this device appear as early as 1992.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anatoly-Klimov/2


    COP of up to 4 is claimed by publishing results of calorimetric study in 2007:


    Source: open-access paper:

    Calorimetric Measurements in Vortex Combustor

    January 2007

    DOI:10.2514/6.2007-1030

    Conference: 45th AIAA Aerospace Sciences Meeting and Exhibit

    Authors: Anatoly Klimov, et al.


    Later, COP up to 10 is claimed (I guess obtained through optimizations over time).


    I have a feeling Lutz Jaitner is ultimately right and history 50-100 years from now, using this tech, will look back to this era like we look back to the first reports on the transistor or first model of the atom. Like we joke today on our 16GB RAM phones about our elderly working with 1kB of RAM or computers the size of a room to multiply two integers... Or taking radioactive pills for "health enhancement", not knowing anything about the fundamentals...

    Böddeker might not necessarily be a new name in the LENR field, just another example of working with a setup for other applications/industrial processes that can promote CP formation. I suspect some identify the phenomenon as anomaly causing undesired effects/damage/erosion, some are curious and dig into the physics of it, some just characterize it on a macro level and try to mitigate it, and some lucky identify energy gain and start going down on that path.


    Like George Egely said, many independently rediscover the same thing over the years. Jaitner's list is very nice...

    condensed-plasmoids.com - History of Condensed Plasmoids and LENR


    More examples, names?

    phD thesis (on plasma thrusters?): Luke Uribarri - Onset Voltage Hash and Anode Spots in Quasi-Steady Magnetoplasmadynamic Thrusters, November 2008, Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, Advisor: Edgar Y. Choueiri, https://alfven.princeton.edu/p…/uribarri-thesis-2008.pdf



    Spot ( see what I did here?8) ) any similarities to figures from book of Ken Shoulders?

    hint:


    How about:

    article (on micro-electrical discharge machining - "precision metal cutting"): Rahul Nadda, Indian Institute of Technology Ropar - Thermal modeling of single discharge in the prospect of tool wear compensation in μEDM, April 2020, The International Journal of Advanced Manufacturing Technology 107(11-12), DOI:10.1007/s00170-020-05238-5, https://www.researchgate.net/p…wear_compensation_in_mEDM


    Not sure about this, but it is suspect:

    P.M. Weaver, et al. - The effects of porosity, electrode and barrier materials on the conductivity of piezoelectric ceramics in high humidity and dc electric field, March 2012, Smart Materials and Structures 21(4):045012, DOI:10.1088/0964-1726/21/4/045012, https://www.researchgate.net/p…ity_and_dc_electric_field



    for me it looks similar to:

    Ken Shoulders and Steve Shoulders - CHARGE CLUSTERS IN ACTION, 1999, Bodega, CA, https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…ction-ken-shoulders-1-pdf



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