Bruce__H wrote:

If the problem is that Rossi-related threads are always near the top of the thread list because of their high traffic, then sever that relationship. Put all the Rossi stuff in a single appropriately named thread that is permanently pinned somewhere other than the main thread list.

On a different topic, how do I start a new (nonRossi) thread on this forum? I have never done it and thought there would be some obvious method. But I don't see how.

Are you on your phone/tablet or in your PC? In a PC You have to click on the forum tab and then select the most appropiate sub forum for your new thread.

PhysicsForDummies wrote:

Alan, Lenr Forum serves as an important source of information debunking Rossi, unlike ecw where this info is ritually deleted. Censorship never solves anything. You guys are over thinking this too much. Besides, Rossi is not even doing LENR anymore, it is LRPI right? As you say, this forum is becoming the goto place, so if it ain't broke, why are you trying to fix it? And the comment about changing if "successful and impecible replications", well who is the judge of that?

I am of the view that wether if il dottore defines whatever he claims to have as LENR or not, the discussion about is a waste of cyberspace and time, and a deterrent factor that serves no purpose to the urgent matter of getting mainstream recognition of LENR. So I favor the proposal of Alan of discouraging its discussion. By succesful and impeccable replications I think its obvious that Alan means independent, methodologicaly sound and open to independent review. I really don't expect to see than anytime soon.

Perhaps a poll is in order, I think most of us are really fed up of hearing about the unverifiable and ever changing shenanigans of the inventor of the e-cat.

Thanks for the tip Alan. It’s good to get notifications this way.

Drummer wrote:

How many solids came from 200 grams of mercury?

In this particular video in 100 seconds the number is 0.3 grams. But they say in the video that with the industrial sonotrode and with a solid extraction system they can go on until is all converted.

Arun Luthra wrote:

I worked in Taleyarkhan's lab for a few months as an undergrad. Neutrons were temporally coincident with the small radius phase of the bubble oscillation. Neutrons were not generated with control fluids. The neutron generating fluid was deuterated acetone. AFAIK the hypothesis was conventional inertial confinement hot fusion but in light of Ryushin Omasa's work and other experiments, maybe it is something else, like ultra-dense deuterium.

Cardone et al also found neutrons with cavitation in several kind of media.

RobertBryant wrote:

More results .. reducing the apparent halflife of Ni63 from 101 yrs to 79 yrs

DST theory .. but the same ultrasonics method..

https://www.semanticscholar.or…f022169a4c83ba6473e19fd8d

Replication should be relatively easy.

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Yes, This was discussed already in another thread, this is the latest work of their group, they have two papers one in Radiochimica and the other I forgot right now.

Fun thing is Ryushin Ohmasa claims very similar things with his vibration cavitators.

Wyttenbach wrote:

Its always a surprise that people start a paper with assumptions that never could be verified what is = measured. Between hadrons (protons) the strong force is not working. Such a statement and underlaying claim for research is absolute nonsensical. The strong force interaction first occurs with 4-He. Any child doing the math with an isotope table can come to this conclusion. Looking at new phenomena at energies of 367.5GeV (once claimed the Higgs mass...) tells all you need to know about the seriousness of current particle physics.

They still don't understand the 4-He electron spin pairing - its's just 11eV. They don't understand dense Hydrogen its 496eV. The proton quantization starts at 2keV - the resonance at 1keV. These outraging high energies will allow to define new physics.

What SM physicists claim to be the hadronic interaction is what they measure as a result of a high energy collision. I suggest the following experiment. Accelerate your car to near light speed and drive it into 4 meter thick concrete wall. The from the metal layer thickness try to calculate the weight of your car. That's what CERN does.

well, give them at least the credit of having performed experiments that at the very least are an interesting way to show that what is known about nuclear reactions has to be reviewed. Their theoretical approach attempted to improve an incomplete understanding, instead of starting from scratch, probably the basis is too limited to allow better understanding at this point under the SM perspective.

The results are what I am trying to highlight, and their choice of cavitation as driving mechanism instead of hydrogen / deuterium loading.

RobertBryant wrote:

Such wonderful Italiano..Fabio Cardone..

Graci, Curbina

I am not so sure about the sentiments about " l'intelletto italiano"

TM3.20

Instead we first comprehended why..

The we moved from the why to the how

This is what distinguishes the Italian intellect from the intellect of the peoples of the world…

For me the low energy transmutations to a swathe of isotopes are amazing…the DST why is debatable…

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For sure, I have heard the same many times already, but when you look at the progression of the collaborative work of Drs. Cardone and the late Dr. Mignani, you can see how they developed their idea since the 1990's and their first experimental work with application of ultrasound to water to observe possible transmutation in 2002, so, in a sense, their approach to the answer has been more broad, but they have also been succesful so, perhaps they are not entirely right, but right enough to have achieved a remarkable result of transmutation and radionuclide deactivation.

This paragraph found at the site held by the research group led by Fabio Cardone might as well be considered a way to generate the elusive NAE by means of controlling the energy density. I have highlighted in bolds the part that I deem most relevant. Cavitation is considered the most direct way to create the conditions where the new nuclear phenomena can manifest. (https://www.newnuclearscience.eu/en/)

New Nuclear Science

a new way for new Physics

In the 90s of the last century, two Italian physicists, Fabio Cardone and Roberto Mignani, began to develop a new phenomenological theory that takes into account the limits of validity of Local Lorentz Invariance (LLI). This symmetry (invariance under Lorentz transformation) has been at the basis of every physical theory since the first two decades of the last century when Albert Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity and wrote its second postulate about the constancy of the speed of light as a general assumption always valid in any ambit of physics. There exist several theoretical attempts to predict its violation, which, however, start with the preconceived idea that the limits of this symmetry have to be searched at very high energies which, unfortunately, can not be reached in any laboratory experiment. On the contrary, the two physicists mentioned above, leaned on phenomenology in order to let Nature (Physics) suggest how to look for such a violation. They deformed the minkowskian metric tensor of Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity by a parameter E with the dimensions of energy and analysed by this tensor several experiments (for the 4 fundamental interactions) whose results presented some type of anomaly with respect to the theoretical predictions in agreement with Lorentz invariance. From these experiments, they quantified the parameter E of the theory and found out the mathematical expressions of the metric tensor as a function of the energy E of the physical phenomenon under consideration. This allowed them to make predictions that could be checked by experiments. In particular, with regards to the fundamental hadronic interaction, more commonly known as the strong nuclear force, the theory states that if you can concentrate in a microscopic volume and in a very short time interval, an amount of energy greater than or equal to 367.5 GeV, new type of nuclear phenomena can be triggered. These predictions have led the research towards the design and the subsequent implementation of experiments capable to verify them. The phenomenon that potentially satisfies the three requirements in terms of space, time and energy is cavitation, that is, the nucleation and subsequent sudden and violent collapse of gas bubbles within a liquid subjected to ultrasounds.

I think its very important to read the mercury transmutation series of papers, I have posted some elsewhere but I will clip the relevant tables in this post.

It is very important to understand that the listed elements of these tables are the ones that were absolutely absent, either as impurities of the mercury, or constituents of the sonotrode, reaction vessel or any other part of the experimental equipment in contact with the mercury sample, for which is concluded that they are created from the mercury itself due to the application of energy by means of the sonotrode, in a way that is optimized to achieve the proper energy density to create the conditions that, in opinion of the researchers, deforms space and time to allow these nuclear reactions to happen without emission of ionizing radiation.

The following three tables list the elements found. The first one is the most restricted as only shows the elements that met the criteria of being absent originally, but also were detected by at least two techniques. The second table includes the same elements and others that were measured only by one technique. The third one includes elements that were not reported in the two prior papers because they were detected in only one sample and one analytical method, but nevertheless complete the picture of the diversity of new elements formed by this treatment method starting from mercury.

we_cat_global wrote:

Hi All,

It is an absolute disgrace to still mention Rossi as a scammer and for example not the party he fought a lengthy court battle with. It was them who (knowingly or unknowingly remains to be seen) facilitated Woodford to inflate the equity stake in them and by doing so delaying the demise of his fund.

Mind you, ordinary working class people face a haircut of around 40%, while most of you still see the clowns from Raleigh as the good guys. Shame on you.

Cheers,

JB

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Mind you, and for the record, I have to state that I have never said or implied il dottore is a scammer, just that I realized that putting confidence in the accuracy-validity of his statements was not rewarding, and therefore I lost any interest in following his endeavors, but otherwise, I wish him well. For a while I harbored a minute hope he could still give a surprise, but that was completely quenched by the SK cat demo.

My comments about the Nigerian scam were in response of the apparent misunderstanding of Pegeto, but I never implied or stated that il dottore is a scammer, just that the SK demo, as was my opinion already stated elsewhere, was the end of the road of my interest for the e-cat, and therefore I conclude that anyone still interested on this topic has to be a special kind of person with disregard for obvious cues.

To make it further clear: During the SK demo It became clear and obvious to me that il dottore had no intention whatsoever of providing any kind of proof of whatever he claims to have, and thus anyone still believing he will ever come up with a proof of the e-cat, is as gullible as the people that fall for Nigerian Scams.

I hope this clears my position.

JohnO wrote:

Curbina

I too am in the process of viewing the Monty Childs chat you inserted above. Monty is again sharing lots of valuable details/insight that has not, to my knowledge, been previously made public. The chat moves painfully slow and contains a lot of irrelevant BS from others (IMHO) but is well worth listening to by anyone who wants to learn more about SAFIRE (and LENR plasma). For example, regarding the power supply - A DC supply with voltage and current limiting. Adjustable voltage and current limiting are standard features of laboratory DC power supplies. I'm getting back to the idea here about doing a low cost, small scale, table top SAFIRE PHASE I like experiment. I'm wondering if I should be carrying on with my thoughts here or in the SAFIRE, SUNCELL, E-CAT SK: Three reactors, three theories, one common unifying mechanism - the EVO (Exotic Vacuum Object). thread...???

I agree the live chat has a lot of "fluff" from the other participants, but still worth the pain of going through it.

I think both threads are on topic but I'd prefer you follow in the other thread as that it is already focused more in the replication, this one is more for updates.

Walter Pegeto wrote:

I thought he was referring to the $11M paid by IH to Rossi as an example of a "Nigerian scam", because, as far as I know, nobody else has given money to Rossi so far.

No, he was refering to the idea that you have to be extremely gullible to keep believing the statements of il dottore, specially after the SK demo fiasco.

The Nigerian scam parallel was brought up by JedRothwell , IMHO with a very appropiate reference to an article to reinforce the point, posted by Microsoft, in which they explain that the rather obvious nature of Nigerian Scams is indeed on purpose, because it reduces greatly the false positives. You have to be a very special kind of dumb if you fall prey of a Nigerian email scam, and the scammers know it, so they craft their e-mails in a specific way to weed out a priori people that is smart enough to see through the obvious scam. I have to admit that I laughed so loud when I read the Microsoft Article that I startled my wife and had to explain her the whole thing.

The laughter arose out of the realization that a fraction of mankind, I hope small enough, is actually so dumb that it can fall prey of such an obvious scam, and that the scammers even use that knowledge in their favor, to let the potential scamee tag themselves.

Max Nozin wrote:

Curbina of course it is easiest and safest to reject all such claims right away. But you also can never be 100% certain that the claim is false. Any theory which based on aether/ether makes any apparatus not closed system and thus not not violating base rules of physics. I am not an expert in gas volume measurement but it was clear from the patent that the measurement of output gas volume wasn't reliable (odd units of measurement etc). Staff engineers at NB power should be aware of that and they were, yet no serious third-party evaluation followed. Now this negativity is surrounding another effort of NB power to build what could be NA first SMB reactor.

Well Max Nozin , I don't pretend to deny the possibility, you know well I am not a pseudoskeptic, but just am in wonder of the long lasting delay in finding the obvious problem in this case, specially with the bulky budget involved.

And precisely that level of sloppyness is what makes this much more concerning, because this reflects badly upon many other serious and non sloppy endeavors that can be put in doubt by any person that rejects the possibility of new science. This bad example can become paradigmatic and quench the interest in other well designed and serious research programs, specially if the decision making people is too concerned with the Public Relationships.

Walter Pegeto wrote:

interested observer wrote:

It was utterly brilliant because it completely eliminated anyone with any capability of critical thinking leaving only exactly the people Rossi depends upon for his “business”.

JR wrote:

The Nigerian scammer technique. See:

Why Do Nigerian Scammers Say They are From Nigeria?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-u…ay-they-are-from-nigeria/

Although I have not a great opinion of IH people, I think that they do not deserve such epithet i.e "incapable of any critical thinking"

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I think you did not get the whole context, Walter Pegeto , the coment of interested observer was referred to a previous comment of we_cat_global in which he was refering to the SK demo (specially to the puppet show that preceded it), implying that the SK demo was the moment in which il dottore separated "the wheat from the chaff" in terms of gullible enough audience. I have previously commented that my interest in the whole e-cat affaire decreased greatly during the lawsuit against IH, and was definitively bloody murdered by the SK demo fiasco. By then, IH had long not been in the picture for il dottore.

Max Nozin wrote:

Continuation of a sad story https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada…ntific-nb-power-1.5359262 The emerging technology researcher's dream - a utility goes all in on your tech. Sadly, the researchers failed to correctly measure input and output having almost 10 years do that

This is really a mind boggling case. Not even the HHO crowd makes direct overunity claims like this. I have seen quite consistently people claiming 3 to 4X "overunity" for production of heat from electricity with a proper thermal diffusor to burn the HHO produced. But never someone claiming to produce twice the Hydrogen with the same electricity.

I have been looking with great interest the publications and work of the group led by Proffesor Fabio Cardone in Italy.

One of his collaborators, Prof. Domenico Bassani, has just sent me the link to a site that hosts a video of a table top demo of their transformation of mercury.

It is very interesting to watch, here I post the link to the page I was sent, please note the video is in Italian but it has subtitled versions in English, French and Spanish. The aim of this particular experiment was to show that the effect can be achieved with “off the shelf” parts.

https://www.newnuclearscience.…cts-it/815-roma-2018.html

Direct link to the English Subtitled version:

I also attach once more the open access version of the publication of the analytical results of what elements have been created from mercury by this method.

A rather long live chat between Monty Childs and several parties. Have gone 15 minutes into it and thought it’s entirely worth sharing it here.

JedRothwell wrote:

The Nigerian scammer technique. See:

Why Do Nigerian Scammers Say They are From Nigeria?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-u…ay-they-are-from-nigeria/

Very good reference JedRothwell , perhaps the more amazing and baffling part of this strategy is that .... it works!!!

“By sending an email that repels all but the most gullible the scammer gets the most promising marks to self-select, and tilts the true to false positive ratio in his favor.“

Here I share a rather balanced view of one of the episodes in which the electric universe predictions came as expected and NASA had to scramble to save face.

This was in 2005. This kind of stuff (Electric Universe theorists making better predictions to certain outcomes and NASA / ESA boffins left with a baffled expression) has happened many times and probably will keep happening in the future.

https://www.wired.com/2005/08/they-sing-the-comet-electric/