So that's what happened with the Orbo Cube
It didn't feel like an outright scam, and this explanation makes sense
Too bad the LT Ecat (1MW) is now obsolete. It had already been proven in the year long Doral operation, and according to one of the Licensees (Proia), and Eng48 (ECW), had customers lined up ready to buy. It was as close to market ready as anything Rossi has ever had. Now, well, it is dead and buried. So sad.
But looking on the bright side; we only have to wait a long, long, long time for the QX to get to market! By then, he should be at sigma....infinity?
I'm sorry but that doesn't address what you wrote before: "most of the planet knows there will never be a product at all, for obvious reasons."
What would those obvious reasons be?
I think the main issue at is that at L-F you have a lot of* people with a strong technical background who have come to the conclusion that Rossi's claims are entirely ridiculous.
I'm not sure being coders or software analysts qualifies as strong technical background in the LENR field. Neither does being electrical engineers (though it's a bit more helpful)
Who cares who, or what they defend their Lugano results to...just do it! They are scientists right...is that not what scientists are supposed to do? You submit a paper, and then you defend it. Simple. That is what peer review is all about.
But what scientists don't do - because they have much better things to pursue - is spending time answering paid internet trolls' filibustering, especially when they're in the process of studying things that massively threaten entrenched financial and industrial interests
Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization (e.g., political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by a grassroots participant(s). It is a practice intended to give the statements or organizations credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection.
Don't worry Eric. After today I doubt any of the Rossi-ites will rear their woo-filled heads in here. The measly 300 COP is like a final HEAT round in the coffin of this scam.
300 COP? time to go home folks
Even at 30% it's only 900ish at full power... far far below the 20k we've been promised
Just another lie in the Rossi hypnotist saga. To think there are people who still have faith in him. Oh the humanity
IH Fanboy why do you keep debating those people? by now I'd surmise you're sure that they are what you were suspecting they could be
I can't imagine a circumstance in which any live demonstration extending over only a couple of hours would convincingly demonstrate the reality of excess heat in his system.
Indeed. I mean, it's not because there's excess heat, that there's excess heat, right?
Way too hard to compare energy in / energy out. Ah well, time to move on, folks. Anyone feeling sleepy? all this pseudo-science is so tiresome... zzz
I have already given you concrete reasons why one might distrust BrLP
So who exactly do you trust amongst the LENR researchers?
It might come as a shock, this forum is named lenr-forum, it's supposed to discuss lenr, i.e. it somehow believes it's real. Amazing isn't it? to think that after all those years, there are still gullible scientists working on it and should-know-better investors who just enjoy to waste money.
It is pointless, and possibly counterproductive, to include such an incomplete and potentially misleading experiment description in the report. I suggested the first time the report came out that Gullstrom should leave those experiment sections out of his report if he expects to get it published. Whether or not he was inspired by the Rossi experiments, the reported Rossi experiments as they are now presented add nothing but confusion to the already speculative work of Gullstrom.
That's really too bad you're not in their labs offering advice! Think of all the science you could offer the world
Reddit is one of the worst places for free speech. It's filled with astroturfers and social engineers managing fake accounts, and the upvote/downvote system (gamed with those fake accounts) is a blessing to suppress opinions, and hype others.
E-Cat/dog, pony/(work)horse, wow so clever very inversion
And there are people paid to meme those things. Truly we are a fascinating species hellbent on being auto-suppressive, it merely requires lacking any subtlety
"pathoskeptic technofascism" - wow, is that a thing? Or is it just nonsense?
From your fellow "skeptic":
I have a full-page ad from Life magazine from the 1950s featuring 16 medical doctors extolling the health benefits of smoking Camel cigarettes.
Technofascism is exactly what it sounds like: entrenched industrial and financial interests profiteering from commercialized products, who socially engineer the dominance and ongoing commercialization of their products, and prevent the emergence of competition, through coercion (hence the "pathoskepticism"). Most of the time, it's stealthy ("you don't want to lose your lab budget, do you?"), but sometimes people die (eg. Eugene Mallove). Between the "respected scientific types" who laugh at the idea of LENR, and the hitman taking out a way too vocal activist, there's all kinds of stuff, such as astroturfing.
There is NO competition
Lol? of course there is. Brillouin or Mills (even if he claims no LENR reaction) come to mind, plus all the quiet industrials who have been testing LENR-based reactions for a decade.
I DO know that legitimate people do not lie, lie and lie more
I do agree with that
The bankrupt spirit who exists without hope exemplifies the nature of the enemies of the LENR paradigm.
"I am the spirit that negates" says Mephistopheles
That's exactly how the pathoskeptic technofascism works: "why bother studying LENR, it's not real!" "we can't stop using pesticides, biodynamics is a hoax!" "you need this 25k$ cancer treatment, there's zero proof that fasting or heavy doses or Vitamin C have any effect!"
They do have hope: fleeting hope that by negating facts, they will allow their masters to profit a little while longer from obsolete technologies (which are enslaving and destructive for the environment and living things, moreover)
Oh come on! The internet is stuffed with fora and blogs hosting small groups of people holding wildly different views and arguing ENDLESSLY about them. Not with any hope of suasion or resolution; just because they are the sort of people who like to argue. No-one here expects their opponents to change their minds - they are here for the craic. "Worth the time " has nothing to do with it.
Yes of course it makes total sense that people with a high level of scientific education would debate daily for hours on end what they think is bogus, pathological science, hokum, woowoo etc. After all, they don't have studies to perform, we all know that Science has reached its conclusion, because what cannot be proven theoretically doesn't exist, and theoretical knowledge is complete, because stuff that would question its completion, simply doesn't exist! just look at LENR : a whooping decades-long nothingburger with an extra serving of nothing. This is not circular reasoning: ask any serious member here (that is, not one of the kookoo LENR-believers), they have thousands upon thousands of posts explaining all this. Too bad Science is over, otherwise they would put their powerful minds to further human knowledge. Alas! it has reached its end. And they're doing us all a service, spending all this time telling us that there's nothing there, otherwise people might be fooled into thinking there's something about LENR. That would be catastrophic!
Flat Earth fora and blogs are overcrowded with high level physicists spending hours daily telling that the earth isn't flat, you are so right about that. Therefore, it is very logical that LENR-forum is also populated with high-level scientific types spending hours every day telling either that Rossi is a scammer who successfully mass-hypnotized investors and scientists over the course of 10 years, or that "LENR isn't real lol", by random Pathoskeptic Joe / Likes Received: 3240 / Posts: 2853
Amazing for me to say, but I hardly give Rossi any thought nowadays. Yes, I know there is an upcoming QX stage act that Alan, Frank and 40 others will attend ...most likely in Sweden, but that is it. He just does not interest me anymore.
Well that's really heartening, it only took you 1690 or so posts to lose interest in Rossi. Yet, you're still posting about him
The social engineering going on on this forum is hilarious. The most verbose of the posters repeat ad nauseam that Rossi is a scammer and that there's nothing to see so move along, and they all have 1k+ posts repeating exactly that, with the bonus option of "LENR is a giant nothingburger, it's not even worth spending time studying it".
But it's worth spending hours daily on this very forum (and others I believe), trying to persuade others of this
Unfortunately, the problems I listed are almost all demonstrably wrong, not pathosceptic quibbles.
Rossi nearly blew a gasket over the lack of using the proper delta configuration math, posting a JoNP diatribe on how much idiots we were for pointing that out, and how correct the formula in the report was. But he is still wrong. (The overall impact is relatively insignificant in the report, but using the wrong formula in the report helps obfuscate the math for figuring what was going on electrically). He did not understand that current flows through the C2 cables from other phases even if it does not "enter" or "exit" the respective connected C1 cable, which means the current from the C1 cable cannot be simply divided in two for the attached C1 cable to get a correct answer for the current in the connected C2 cables.
Arxiv rejected the Lugano paper because it was riddled with problems, not because the PTB, MIB, or The Man are blocking progress to save the oil/electric companies (or whatever).
Social engineering, and various conspiracy-like theories are irrelevant to the list I posted: These issues can be tested. Just like Rossi's magic Gamma 0232 metering pumps that pump (for him) far more than they can pump for anyone else (not to mention defeating the purpose of using a metering pump in the first place, if he could get the pumps pumping at twice their specification).
I did not bother with the ash-fuel part of the report in my list since issues there were in part addressed by Mr. Hoistad, and theories there rely on conjecture more than demonstrable facts.
All the problems you listed are pathoskeptic quibbles, in the true and tried tradition of pathoskepticism, which exploits whatever uncertainty about whatever exploitable issue to cast doubt upon the general picture (80 COP in that case)
Social engineering is completely relevant to whatever has been, and is happening with "cold fusion" / LENR : we know it's real, we know labs lied about not being able to replicate P&F experiments just so they could stay in good business terms with "hot fusion" subsidizers, we know Eugene Mallove was murdered because he was irritating some people/interests, we know big industrial players are more than interested in this tech, study it and keep it hush-hush...
And we also know quite a few posters here have written thousands of posts about Rossi, who in their analysis is a master conman hypnotist, able to mentally dominate investors and scientists alike for nearly 10 years, even though dutiful citizens like Maryyugo and others have contacted congressmen, senators, cult watchlists etc to warn them about the dangers of this sorcerous scammer
From conspiracy theorist to conspiracy theorist, your theory makes no sense, while mine merely describes standard practices from industrial/financial interests when the technologies they profit upon, are threatened by a scientific breakthrough that will usher in a new paradigm and sweeping technological changes.
This won't come as a surprise to you as you're fully aware of what's going on
Omg it only produced 500kW which a COP of 80
LENR is finished time to close this forum boys : /
"(Snip endless quibbles which have been addressed hundreds of times)"
NOT addressed by the authors of the report, which is the point.
The point is: they didn't address them because they fully know what this is all about: pathoskepticism. It's not worth an answer. However, it's worth social engineering contracts, because LENR are real and very disturbing for some industrial and financial interests who really wish their implementation into public tech to go very, very slowly... skeptopathy is a very useful tool.
Hence the thousands of posts bashing Rossi and endlessly quibbling about points easy to quibble about.
(Snip endless quibbles which have been addressed hundreds of times)
The level of effort put in this collective pseudo-debunk tells volumes about the reality of Rossi's invention, and how much of a game changer LENR are gonna be
Also, as I've mentioned earlier, there has not been one instance verified by a reputable source of LENR detected in nature.
Indeed. Mineral transmutation within earth's crust (heat + pressure) is absolutely unheard of... 'reputable' sources
Shane said "This field is not going to break out"
There are many visitors who wing by this site.. 5 users and 114 guests right now???
Now we have 3 good papers up on this site in support of LENR as a measurable phenomenon.
But LENR is not real, just make a poll in this forum, which is the main place to talk about the cold fusion hoax, and see who thinks it is real, and who thinks it isn't.
Haven't you read THHuxley's excellent debunkings, Maryyugo's thorough analysis, Shane D. cautious approach of those phenomena who always turn out to be explainable by other things, Paradigmnoia's detailed disproval of all this hokum?
Nothing to see here, move along. Science is done by serious scientifics, who know that theory predates facts :^)
The truth is that not more than basic coursework in functional analysis at the college level is required to strongly suspect that GUT-CP is mathematical runaround. No professional credentials are required to see this. Many people do not have this basis in mathematics, so GUT-CP must seem intimidating and magical.
Where are the countless debunking blogs that would have appeared in such a case, if that's really entry-level hokum, and which could help out investors who have apparently not done their due diligence?
After noting these things and after having taken a closer look at the mathematicalese in the GUT-CP tomes sometime back, which seem together to be an act of mathematical runaround, perhaps seeking to scare away people who might be more critical, I would urge caution on anyone who might be thinking of giving these guys any more money.
I'm sure a lot of people, investors and the like, would be really interested in hearing your professional take on fundamental physics as approached by Mills, why don't you share?
It's ridiculous that Maryyugo gets upset and denies people's assertions that he doesn't read the papers he discusses, when the above posts are just the latest example in a long line of evidence that he doesn't.
Isn't it even more ridiculous that people have been answering hir for years and years?
I feel like we're the only LENR site on the Internet where both skeptics and the hard core Rossi followers feel the same way about this.
Seems you're mixing up people and their approach of LENR: "hard core" (?) Rossi followers are actually skeptical that "cold fusion" is the hoax that we've been told is a hoax for nearly 30 years now, doubting that this inventor is a criminal hyperpsychic mastermind who's been able to hypnotise for 10 years the scientists who evaluated his work IRL, and teach fellow hypnotists his craft so they get hired by universities.
What you call "skeptics" are actually a mix of social engineers spending their time trying to slow down LENR by occupying verbal space in the biggest LENR forum around, and some hardcore (this time for real) pseudo-skeptics who need to hold onto their beliefs.