The Playground

    Quote from AlainCo

    That is menace of group suicide : pay me more or I show everybody you paid too much already, that you are a fool. I'll be dead but you too.


    That is interesting new idea. It could work in some cases, but I somewhat lost how it would work in this case.
    In your scenario:
    - IH and Rossi had proper contracts in place,
    - Rossi did trickery with the help of ERV that later turned out to be not so independent?
    - IH maybe received additional investments by referring to one of the preliminary ERV reports
    - IH raided the 'factory' and checked the serial numbers so Rossi got caught?


    And in your idea, when Rossi got caught, his response was asking IH either to pay or he sues them showing how idealistic IH has been or reveals that IH was aware of faulty ERV while taking investments?.
    - IH can always claim (as they have done) that they learned about trickery very late in February/March? when additional investments were already made then.
    - With pump serial numbers and other (photo/video) documentation IH could prove that trickery against them has been done, but they learned it on dates of provided pics&videos


    In that case Rossi harming IH by suing and accusations would still be temporary if they can prove in court that they may have been idealistic, but inventor was a con. I don't know but I think then Rossi would go to jail, pay back 11,5 m$ etc. IH have massive supporters more than willing to delay LENR. Oil and part of Energy sector would be more than happy to fart scoop of dollars in marketing campaign after Rossi would have been plead guilty by court. That could cause years of additional delay in LENR unless some other team succeeds meanwhile. Similarly, for Rossi it would have been much easier to buy flight ticket to Bali with 11,5 m$. Enough for one man at his age.


    Sorry but in my head something does not fit in in this scenario. You need to add extra salt here. Something like either:
    - IH was aware of faulty measurements some time earlier. Something between acceptance test and before they received additional investments, then Rossi would have thought that he would be able to black mail them. Still it would have been total insanity for IH to collect additional investments, since they would have 60m$ law suits waiting and their future business reputation in stake, and 60m$ is not worthed it I guess.
    - Of course if E-cat works, but Rossi becoming suspicious early and left out one ingredient/treatment from recipe he gave 'to IH top manager who made the powder by his own hands, assembled the core and device worked'. Maybe Rossi did some treatment, to one ingredient before giving it to IH in knowledge transfer? It is almost impossible to substantiate if that secret sauce is not known.
    - If E-Cat didn't work and IH refused to pay simply because on that. Why wouldn't Rossi just bail instead of risking his future in Jail with hairy big men with tattoos and all? After fooling IH there is no way that after this publicity he could have been able to continue same with Quark-X scheme with next company.
    - Hmmm. IH refusing to pay for tecnology they knew was not working at time of Woolford investment. Hoping they could still keep 60m$? And then Rossi sent suicide torpedo, which IH was not predicting? Theoretically possible, but they would loose future in green tech, so not worthed? And instead of litgation, I think Rossi would have bailed with 11,5 m$ instead.
    - Something else but what? Nothing seems to fit perfectly


    Edit: Alain, I still believe that nobody would be so stupid or incompetent, but if you are right (no matter which party it is), it would ruin my day in any case.


    Intriguing dilemma, but at least I'm stuck until we see next steps in litigation process.

    Quote from AlainCo

    That is menace of group suicide : pay me more or I show everybody you paid too much already, that you are a fool. I'll be dead but you too.


    If you make hypothesis, consider every possibilities.
    Group suicide menace is much less improbable than oil conspiracy in that context.


    Alain,


    It is an interesting theory. The Rascal has stated that he goes down with this ship in the past.


    I tend to have a different theory. The lawsuit is a misdirection. He thinks it improbable that he will get anything more from IH. But if IH has anyone else in the LENR field with a working product, he can try to claim that their technology works because IH shared their IP with the other inventors (e.g., Brillouin). So he is trying to destroy any "competitors" (e.g., Brillouin, Piantelli). At the same time, it keeps the charade going while he secures a new investor / partner. I think it possible that he has thought he would eventually be able to get something that works through the efforts of others (and maybe even thought his system worked at one time). Maybe it actually did work a time or two, who knows?


    I have a feeling that IH will file a counter-suit soon and perhaps even stronger legal actions. We'll see.


    On the other hand, if he thinks the game is completely over, he might try to take as many down with his ship as he can.

    Quote from "Argon"

    - Of course if E-cat works, but Rossi becoming suspicious early and left out one ingredient/treatment from recipe he gave 'to IH top manager who made the powder by his own hands, assembled the core and device worked'. Maybe Rossi did some treatment, to one ingredient before giving it to IH in knowledge transfer? It is almost impossible to substantiate if that secret sauce is not known.


    This might be possible I guess. I see some possible variants on the theme:

    • IH simply failed to raise enough money (hey it took them until 2015 until Woodford was on... before that it looks like nothing, only private sfunding). They managed to get the $50M from Woodford but the Chinese money never hit their pockets. The complaint came as a surprise, since their plan was to keep negotiating with Rossi under NDAs to have him keep on doing research for free (and then maybe pay him eventually), for another X years, as they had since the plant reached Relaigh in the first place. (this is actually as nice a scenario I can come up with)
    • IH never ever had a plan to pay Rossi for the GP test. They delayed as much as possible to be able to pocket as much IP as they could before flushing Rossi out. The plan was to hand over IP to other cheaper LENR folks (who were only paid in toilet paper/IH stock, ie no cash); Rumors are that this has been the Weaver agenda when travelling around the globe talking to people. Every possible IH investor would have questions about the IP; who owns it, who controls it... Especially at $billion valuations...
    • IH actually didn't care about Rossi at all. They only saw the money raising opportunity and their plan from the beginning was business failure. Other IH investments seem to have gone down that line. I mean the IH people are only lawyer types, fishing for tax funding and pension fund money, with a ?fake? green agenda.
    • Finaly the conspiracy; there could be power players above the IH pawns, with a plan to both pocket IP and delay. Most probable heads of this is the AGW political crowd. Taxes is the biggest business in the world and tons of "important" people are counting on this to continue...
    • maybe more...

    Jack -continues to prophesy. From what we're learning, It's likely that Rossi had a deliberate escape route with his litigation plan all along. The inside story there is all adding up along with lots of information and transactions from his intended next targets. He is almost out of runway - we'll see what he does next. He was not counting on the type of counterstrike that is inbound - his runway will be hit as well. No matter what happens with the MTD, his ruse is not going to play well with the US courts and US law.

    The interplanetary monitoring system (IMS) continues to delivery and is del fuego this AM. The system has located a truthandconsequences tablet on Planet of the Rossis. It appears that the truth is on one side and the consequences of Rossi's complete past are on the other. The decipher team is only concentrating on the LENR section for now but the first reports are intriguing. In addition, the IMS is starting to put names with faces based on various images. We've been able to identify Walker, Timar, E48, our dear friend Gerald and several other core team members from Planet of the Rossis. The situation continues to be studied but it appears that the truth side causes something similar to allergic reactions which produces violent shakes, slanderous and libelous outburst and episodes from a trance-like position. On the consequences side, we see years of 1MW system sales but only "customer" and never a real name. On the truth side, it is harder to discern because of the angle but there is a really interesting sentence that is still being deciphered - so far we've only been able to make out the following because of the code and image issues but the words Piantelli, Lithium and Focardi are confirmed all in one sentence that predates Rossi's LENR foray. A stunning development. The IMS will continue to study the truth side and the consequences side will take care of itself. This has long term implications for the IP department on Planet of the Rossis. Oh, I almost forgot - see for yourself:

    • Official Post

    Dewey,


    While your decipher team works on building their case, maybe we need our own decipher effort to make sense of that post of yours? :) Very appropriate to post the 2001 Space Odessey pic...I never understood the movie either!


    Look, you could save IH a lot of trouble by just releasing the ERV report. If it is as self evident as you have been saying, then we will do your work for you and rip Rossi to shreds. His few remaining supporters will abandon him, and he will become the pariah he deserves to be.


    Same goes for Rossi; if the report is as he claims, then it is in his best interest to release it. We will then do his work for him. He will gain legions of new fans, and steamroll IH in the courts. And his: "my lawyer will not let me" does not fly. He was saying days before ithe GPT's ending that he would release it after he got it...no matter what, and we know now that he was working on his suit for a long time before that.

    Can you imagine the white noise all LENR-related discussions will be filled with, when the report gets released?
    You will have all the MYs, TCs and Lomaxes filibustering full-time and arguing over why the measurements are flawed because on september 15 temp was 3 degrees higher than seasonal average and it displaced thermocouples


    Rossi is clever not to release it. He knows that professional trolls will nitpick it to death, just to make noise and drown all discussion.


    He might still be a con artist, but if he's not, he understands skeptopaths and paid shills will not even stop once the product is available, and that releasing the report will not hasten this, only encourage noise-makers to drown all signal in it.

    Quote from "Keieueue"

    because on september 15 temp was 3 degrees higher than seasonal average


    I know, I know. The AGW crowd does it again ... :D

    Quote from "high on Weaver"

    ... episodes from a trance-like position. On the consequences side, we see years of 1MW system sales but only "customer" and never a real name. On the truth side, it is harder to discern because of the angle but there is a really interesting sentence that is still being deciphered - so far we've only been able to make out the following because of the code and image issues but the words Piantelli, Lithium ...


    Wow!! Planet Lithium in the Piantelli galaxy ... I wanna try some of that stuff you're on ... Must be feeling great ;)

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    The interplanetary monitoring system (IMS) continues to delivery and is del fuego this AM. The system has located a truthandconsequences tablet on Planet of the Rossis. It appears that the truth is on one side and the consequences of Rossi's complete past are on the other. The decipher team is only concentrating on the LENR section for now but the first reports are intriguing. In addition, the IMS is starting to put names with faces based on various images. We've been able to identify Walker, Timar, E48, our dear friend Gerald and several other core team members from Planet of the Rossis. The situation continues to be studied but it appears that the truth side causes something similar to allergic reactions which produces violent shakes, slanderous and libelous outburst and episodes from a trance-like position. On the consequences side, we see years of 1MW system sales but only "customer" and never a real name. On the truth side, it is harder to discern because of the angle but there is a really interesting sentence that is still being deciphered - so far we've only been able to make out the following because of the code and image issues but the words Piantelli, Lithium and Focardi are confirmed all in one sentence that predates Rossi's LENR foray. A stunning development. The IMS will continue to study the truth side and the consequences side will take care of itself. This has long term implications for the IP department on Planet of the Rossis. Oh, I almost forgot - see for yourself:


    "Names with faces"?
    Are you threatening something? If so, what? Why?

    I agree with Jed that Rossi is as deceitful, opaque, and shrewd and the day is long. I remember what he was saying on his blog which showed absolutely nothing about what was going on in his head during the final stages of the test. The mental powers that he controls are prodigious having to plan out his upcoming conflict with IH, his efforts in keeping his plant up and running during the test, and thinking about the next generation Quark technology. Anti-Intellectualism is well founded in that you are not well served to trust a smart person. In a dumb person, you can see uncontrolled and honest emotions and reactions but you can't see what a smart person like Rossi is thinking and the plans he is making because his mind controls his outward persona so well.


    But one thing is for sure, when Rossi saw his IP being revealed by IH, it drove him crazy. That patent from IH set Rossi on course to decouple from IH.


    Rossi showed IH how to produce a functioning E-Cat but such a thing is not learned in one go. Like playing a musical instrument it takes a lot of hands on practice needed through many repetitions to get things down just right.


    After the IP reveal by IH, Rossi had it in his head to get away from IH. When IH requested a refresher course in reactor building since their Reactors just would not work, Rossi became too busy to be bothered to go through a refresher course. He had just too much do do inside those shipping containers.


    In the face of Rossi lack of cooperation, now IH had their own fears, concerns, and needs to impose their will onto Rossi. No more IP training means no more money. And so that is how this worm is turning.

    Jed said:

    Quote

    You do not have to take Rossi's word for anything, or Darden's word. Instruments speak for themselves.


    Big mistake. It works that way in an honest and well performed experiment. But not when someone is bent on deception and consistently refuses the use of proper calibration and controls. Dewey can not know how the input power system is connected, whether the instruments read as they should with current clamps instead of real ammeters, whether the sensors are within their intended amplitude and frequency ranges and most importantly, Dewey can not know that the optical camera is being properly used with the appropriate emissivity numbers and that, in earlier experiments, thermocouples were properly placed. Only truly independent tests where Rossi is not involved would show that. And only if done by very careful and competent people. When it came to Defkalion and Rossi, lots of luck with those requirements!


    BTW, for those who linked Homlid's stuff: Very interesting but it would appear to be hot fusion and completely unrelated to Ni-H experiments or the Pd-D stuff. And of course, a lot of questions remain about "UDD" like with Mill's mystical hydrinos.


    Dewey wrote:

    Quote

    The interplanetary monitoring system (IMS) continues to delivery and is del fuego this AM.

    With due respect, I don't think that sort of post adds much.

    Tell us Axil, do you really think that if Rossi had showed IH how to make a cold fusion power plant generating a megawatt and given them rights to distribute it in half the world, they would have reneged on a silly $90M when they could use it to make billions? That really makes sense to you?

    Keieueue:

    Quote

    Can you imagine the white noise all LENR-related discussions will be filled with, when the report gets released?You will have all the MYs, TCs and Lomaxes filibustering full-time and arguing over why the measurements are flawed because on september 15 temp was 3 degrees higher than seasonal average and it displaced thermocouplesRossi is clever not to release it. He knows that professional trolls will nitpick it to death, just to make noise and drown all discussion.


    So if I understand this, Rossi will prove he has the most important invention of the century and a few anonymous bloggers will be able to shoot it down easily with a couple of posts? That makes sense in your world?


    elievers misdirect their anger when they are furious with skeptics. Their problem is Rossi and his unwillingness to do or allow a single actually independent test with proper instruments and calibrations in six years. It's not the skeptics whose comments would be ridiculed or more probably ignored, were Rossi to behave in a credible manner. Believers need to grow up and examine their absurd assumptions. Skeptics aren't your problem, Rossi is!


    By the way, Keieueue, did you formerly believe Defkalion? Where do you think they went?

    Quote from Rigel

    You (and I will mention Skifferol-- so it's fair) and others spend so much time in personal attacks I am confused on why Mr. Darden or anyone from IH has not asked you to frankly to knock if off. I have spent a fair amount of money on investments that have not paid off. I just don't see how telling people that their IQ must be low if they do not agree with your point of view helps sway opinion. Is IH aware that you think everyone is dumb as f*ck? Especially if they don't see your point?

    There is a high possibility that Darden and the IH officials are not aware of all this crap in detail. And we do not know what Darden has said to Dewey. He might have said to Dewey, "Cut it out!" and then I imagine Dewey telling him, as old friends sometimes tell each other, to fuck off. Dewey is presumably under NDA. So then he might say "So sue me!" Or at least provide a legal notice.


    However, Dewey is fairly careful what he reveals. I have no idea whether or not he has crossed IH NDA boundaries. His "you are a bunch of demented Rossi fans" or the like is completely irrelevant, I'd think. There may also be a value to his behavior here. It provokes Rossi response sometimes, and Rossi's response reveals things about Rossi that Rossi can then be asked about in court. Dewey, not being an official representative of IH, and with the very explicit disclaimer that IH issued in March, doesn't speak for IH, and what he writes is largely dicta. There are certain alleged facts stated, and, so far, all that I have seen are facts that if brought out in court by testimony under oath, would help the IH case.


    Now, the main issue here: There is a tendency in popular fora to assume equality. If two people are flame warring, the generality will assume that both are biased and to some extent that both are wrong. I first saw this phenomenon in on-line conferences in the 1980s on the W.E.L.L. Even when the facts of what had happened were clear, all in a record that anyone could access, most did not look at the evidence, but only at current behavior, from which they drew conclusions. Someone flaming someone else is being Bad. And even if what they wrote was just accurate reporting of what had happened, if it appeared to make a participant look bad, it was considered flaming. And the other side, who was also flaming, was considered equal even if no record supporting what they were writing existed. Bottom line, people can be very lazy and assume that their impressions are reality. It's just the way we are, unless we distinguish this and take care.


    I have adopted Dewey's term "Planet Rossi," because it summarizes very well a certain social phenomenon. I called Sifferkoll a troll because I actually documented it, the deliberate effort to anger, as shown by his attributions (which look like links but are not). See Thread with the most fact-based posts on the Forum shut down from flame warring. If this isn't trolling, the word would have become meaningless.

    Quote from "high on Weaver"

    it will be the end of Rossi's last imaginary hope along with the hope of Planet Rossi.


    does not compute ...


    I might be wrong ... but I had the idea the scenario you describe above regarding the ERV would save IH some trouble ... what could be better han PR imploding on lost hope from the IH pov... ??? Beats me. At least that would save you a lot of time Dewey ;)

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    So much fun. So little time.

    Watch out that this fun doesn't take over. It can be addicting. "Hold dinner for me, sweetheart, Someone Is Wrong on the Internet." Marriages have gone south over this.

    Quote

    IH will release the "ERV" at a time that works best for IH. Rossi can release it anytime that he wants but he will not because it will be the end of Rossi's last imaginary hope along with the hope of Planet Rossi.

    Rossi has claimed his lawyer advised him not to release it. The Agreement included an NDA about releasing information to the public, and IH has not violated that. Rossi is probably immune to NDA prosecution because a lawsuit would be immune, that's necessary law. So it would not be IH insistence on NDA that would be stopping him. Meanwhile, we have only leaked impressions, rumors, essentially. Nobody with inside information (possibly Dewey, possibly Jed) has been willing to violate confidentiality, limiting themselves to reporting their impressions.


    My point has been that while the ERV is of high interest to us, and it is an element in Rossi's insistence that he is owed $89 million, it is not actually relevant to the outcome of the lawsuit. If Rossi asserts the ERV in public, it's going to be deconstructed, very likely, and then IH attorneys will have avenues to explore that they may not already have. Or it's irrelevant. We will see how they Answer, when they Answer. That may not be for quite some time.

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