omg heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible
Jed Rothwell in one sentence
Rossi vs IH: (Update: Sep. 9 20– James A. Bass now a Third Party in IH’s Counter Complaint)
-
-
The people were almost certainly contractees, and none are actually employees of IH. See the USQL contract to see how IH intentionally spells out the non-employee status.
Right as to Fabiani, and the contract was with USQL, a private LLC. The distinction is important for tax purposes. No employment taxes would be due for what is paid to USQL. Fabiani and USQL would pay various taxes.However, I have seen no information on the employment or contractor status of Barry West. Rossi had operational control of the reactor. (which is consistent with a sale of power to a customer who trusted him -- or to himself!) but overstepped that control, violating the Terms Sheet agreement he had signed, now calling the installation a "test," in order to exclude IH employees, contractors, or guests.
The was all such a Bad Idea. But Rossi thought it a masterpiece.
There are long-term Rossi supporters, people who knew him personally, who, reading his emails, say things like "He actually wrote that? I'd heard rumors, but .... he actually wrote that?"
Even before the Agreement was signed, Darden and Vaughn could see what they were dealing with, particularly from the Hydro Fusion affair. It appears that Rossi thought they would be impressed by his cleverness. I don't think so. Rossi thought they were like himself, motivated by self-centered greed, that their philanthropic motives were just a cover, like what he says about his plans.
-
Abd,
If IH really does have all the damning evidence Dewey and others have claimed -- indisputable evidence that the whole test in Doral was unmitigated and total fraud -- and they truly believe the information given to them by Rossi is worthless, I don't think such a data dump would be dimly viewed by other inventors. If they published proof that there was no customer, no connection with Johnson Matthey, no manufacturing, tampering with sealed meters/equipment, nothing close to 750kW - 1,000MW of heat, no "real" James A. Bass, and so fourth I think the "dumping" of the IP would be a GREAT warning, "Do not expect to play fraudulent games of deceit with us and the LENR community and expect to continue onward without consequence."
And please let me be clear about something. I'd only support the above action if they do indeed have proof of all their accusations and honestly feel the information is worthless. I do not think this is the case, because I expect the plant did produce significant excess heat and manufacturing did take place. But if I'm wrong and IH is completely and totally right, then Rossi's IP deserves to be splashed everywhere. Because he would be one of the biggest son-of-female dog and rat b*stard on the planet, in my opinion. His actions would need to be punished in a peaceful manner.
Thoughts?
-
MrSelfSustain wrote:
It is not a matter of what Rossi claims, or I.H. claims. No such process exists. Look in physics and chemistry books and you will see. No such process is possible. Except a useless phase change such as melting ice.Furthermore, if Rossi's claim is true, this process would magically store up 86,400 MJ per day. That's the equivalent of 21 tons of TNT, or 2.2 tons of gasoline. Do you seriously believe that a "small amount of material" could absorb that, day after day? That's chemically impossible. And if it did, what would happen if something went wrong after a week? It would be like a small nuclear bomb going off.
If we could neglect the transport costs, melting ice could be quite useful.... but there would be costs, so, in Florida?We are accustomed, with cold fusion, to something deemed impossible that apparently isn't.
This, then, creates some tendency among people interested in cold fusion to accept outlandish ideas. It's a hazard, and it is well-known (see Simon, Undead Science).
The "acceptance" is not the problem, it is belief in extraordinary claims without even ordinary evidence that is a problem. Being open-minded is not a problem, the brains do not actually fall out. Ordinary skeptics are open-minded (if they aren't, they are pseudo-skeptics, forgetting to be skeptical of their own fixed ideas).
Jed tends to express himself dogmatically. I nudge him about it, often. But ... Jed has a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, and is, in fact, serving the future of LENR.
Dissipating the power endothermically, in a small quantity of product (necessary from the lack of major shipment activity) would indeed do what he describes. It would need to be efficient beyond any known process -- other than phase change, which is 100% efficient and reversible -- and the product would be extremely dangerous.
Sometimes energy storage is considered to be the artifact behind cold fusion. The strong argument against that is, in fact, that the energy released is beyond that possible for any known process. And this is far less energy than Rossi has claimed. Probably it would take a "reverse, endothermic nuclear process."
Platinum sponge? One can continue to maintain belief, by ignoring evidence.
Garwin said, about the SRI measurement of input power, "They must be making some mistake." That was telegraphing held belief. This is, in fact, a very general position about cold fusion. "It's impossible, so they must be making some mistake, and since the result is impossible, I'm not going to bother to figure it out. Too much work for no gain."
It actually makes sense, ordinarily. This thinking protects us from wasting time on lots of ridiculous stuff. But .... what is "it" that is impossible, and how do we know?
To move beyond fixed ideas takes both detachment and study.
-
If they published proof that there was no customer, no connection with Johnson Matthey, no manufacturing, tampering with sealed meters/equipment, nothing close to 750kW - 1,000MW of heat, no "real" James A. Bass, and so fourth I think the "dumping" of the IP would be a GREAT warning
The part about "nothing close to 750kW - 1,000MW of heat" is wrong. There is no heat at all. So there is no IP. There would be nothing to "dump" except perhaps some lies from Rossi. What would be the point of publishing that? There is enough nonsense in the cold fusion literature already; we don't need more. Anyway, it is still possible Rossi has something which he is hiding. I.H. will have the rights to it if he ever reveals it. I see no point to jeopardizing that right that by doing something they agreed not to do. -
if I'm wrong and IH is completely and totally right, then Rossi's IP deserves to be splashed everywhere. Because he would be one of the biggest son-of-female dog and rat b*stard on the planet, in my opinion. His actions would need to be punished in a peaceful manner.
This thinking is in the realm of good and bad, right and wrong, and represents what might be called ordinary thinking. Ordinary thinking exists because it has a function in the realm of survival, but humanity has the possibility of moving beyond that realm. It's pointed out in my training that the survival game is one that we will lose, and we start to look for games we can win. The training I did is available to the public, and it is relatively cheap (in money, but advanced training takes a major commitment of time); but, whether or not it is directly connected with this specific training, this is how the people who are moving us consciously into the future think. Hatred of "the evil people" will never create the future we long for. Look at history, such hatred simply perpetuates oppression and harm. Hatred is part of the problem, at least.Punishment as a way of raising children has created and continues to create immense suffering. Coercion in education is heavily discredited by research, but continues because it is how things have always been done. Sometimes it "works," but creates people who survive, but not necessarily who thrive.
I did the initial training in 2011, after I was already involved with cold fusion, and with major activity on Wikipedia leading to my ban there. In that first training, I took the microphone, what is called the "hot seat," and said a few words about Wikipedia. The Forum Leader, a man who had trained well over 100,000 people, looked at me and said one word: "racket." I knew. The training made it utterly and totally obvious. The whine in the voice was unmistakeable, the rapid movement into obsession. "Racket," in the language of the training, means "a persistent complaint combined with a fixed way of being." This is blatantly and obviously dysfunctional. This has nothing to do with whether or not the complaint is "right" or "wrong." It's disempowering. In the Advanced Course, it all became clear to me (in many ways). The obsession, created by years of "being right, a lone voice in the wilderness," caused me to be unheard. People instinctively recognize obsession and do not trust it. -- unless it happens to match their own obsessions, a very dangerous condition.
By the time I went to ICCF-18 in Missouri, I had done the most advanced training in the system. There is lots more that is available to flesh it all out, but I now had the major tools. And so when my iPhone was stolen in Columbus, Ohio, at a bus station, and once I handled my own upset, which took a bit of process, my own anger with myself for allowing that to happen, with the thief, and with the police for their terminal uselessness and willingness to ignore grand theft (friggin' $700 phone!), I knew what do do, and I did it. And got my phone back and made $20 to boot. That story is on Quora: https://www.quora.com/Whats-th…d-Ul-Rahman-Lomax</a><br>
I point to this here because, had I been thinking in the world of good and bad, right and wrong, I would never have gotten my phone back. Some people object to what I did, think it was a terrible thing to do. "You rewarded a thief!" Actually, I paid a thief for returning the phone, which was risky for him, not for stealing it. Another exclaimed: "You actually met the low-life?" Had I been thinking of him as a low-life, I would never have been allowed to meet him. How we think, and especially if we are upset, is generally betrayed in our voice.What I did created "win" for everyone directly involved. The thief won $100, but may have won much more than that in his eye contact with me. It might have changed his life. Or he might be dead, if he continued living as he had been. The taxi driver made $40 and had some fun. ATT, simply by forgiving two month's service charge, created a story that has been heard and read by thousands of people, that makes them look really good, and the manager had fun. And I had fun and made $20 and got a great story to tell. It is reliable. Jaws drop. The story of the "low-life thief" would inspire nobody, all that one could do is create some "yeah, life sucks" sympathy. And I'd have been out one expensive phone!
There are pseudoskeptics here who are certain that IH was idiotic for "trusting Rossi." These are people who are not engaged in creating value for humanity. They live in a world of right and wrong, good and bad. And Rossi is Bad. And giving $11.5 million to someone Bad is unthinkable for them. It's WRONG!
But what they created by moving beyond that limitation is actually spectacular. Watch! It is starting to surface, to become visible.
As to Rossi, I'm quite clear. I do not hate him. I am part of a process that is confronting him with reality, which, if he accepts it, will open up his life. I would hope for him that he can reconcile with his first family. I certainly hope for him love and joy in his present marriage. He has played a role in a game that (I am coming to agree) has helped to open up the future of LENR, even if the role he played was as it now appears to be.
If he continues to suffer, it will be of his own creation. This is, in fact, true for all of us (and I am distinguishing pain, which is an intrinsic part of being alive, and suffering, which is optional, an ancient teaching.)
Allowing Rossi to experience the natural consequences of his behavior is fully acceptable to me; I have always done this with my children. It is not punishment. It is, in fact, essential to his freedom of choice, and freedom of choice is essential for humans.
-
We are accustomed, with cold fusion, to something deemed impossible that apparently isn't.
This, then, creates some tendency among people interested in cold fusion to accept outlandish ideas. It's a hazard, and it is well-known (see Simon, Undead Science).
I entertain outlandish ideas, because they entertain me. I do not necessarily accept them.Simon's book is good.
Sometimes energy storage is considered to be the artifact behind cold fusion. The strong argument against that is, in fact, that the energy released is beyond that possible for any known process.
There are two arguments against this:1. As you say, the limits of chemical fuel are known. They are based on the limits of electron bonds, which are well understood. For nearly all molecules this is around 4 eV per atom. * For a few exotic proposed rocket fuels it may be 10 or 15 eV, but I do not think this has been proved.
2. Calorimetry shows there is no significant energy storage. There is a small endothermic phase with liquid electrolysis when palladium loads. This is balanced by an exothermic phase when it deloads. With a good calorimeter, this phase is easily detected. (It was detected long ago with calorimeters.) If there were some sort of massive energy storage, this would show up as either a very long exothermic phase, or a very deep one, with large difference between input and output. The excess heat generated by cold fusion would then balance this deficit, with the total excess of zero. This is not observed. It has never been observed.
One other argument has been made to support the possibility of endothermic storage. People have proposed that energy storage occurs slowly at a level that is too low to be detected with the calorimeters, and then energy is released more rapidly at a higher level that can be detected. This release is mistaken for excess heat. That possibility is ruled out because in many cases the duration from the start of the experiment to the beginning of excess heat is shorter than the duration of the excess heat event that follows. Suppose, for example, it takes 1 week for heat to begin, and the heat then goes continuously for 4 weeks, with no break during the 4 weeks to "recharge." For this to be energy storage, you would have to see an endothermic deficit on average 4 times lower (negative) than the exothermic effect that follows. Nothing like this has ever been observed.
This four-week example is not imaginary. There have been events as dramatic as this, and others even more dramatic.
* ~4 eV is the maximum, for diamonds I think. Most molecules have much weaker bonds.
-
A few tips for some new posters here
Don't engage with trolls(Jed, Abd, ...), they don't react to logic.
Example of logic:
For the first payment(10million) of the contract Penon was the ERV. IH made Penon AGAIN the ERV for the second test of 89 millions. Which shows that they didn't doubt the first test. If they had doubts about the first test, you think they would hire him for the second?
-
-
If they had doubts about the first test, you think they would hire him for the second?
Did they have doubts about the first test? I did not know that. Where did you hear it?Did they hire Penon? I have not heard that. Rossi hired him. I.H. approved, somewhat reluctantly. I am sure they did not intend to hand him carte blanche permission to approve an $89 million deal, on his own, without anyone else's technical judgement playing any role. That would be insane.
-
IH denies there was a GPT
IH denies there was an ERV for a test in Florida, or that Penon was the ERV in Florida.Because IH are weasels.
-
Talking of "rackets", if anyone wants to know why Abd keeps rambling on about his mysterious training: Essentially he has been brainwashed by the Landmark Forum into proselytising for them...
QuoteI clocked two hours the first day devoted to “spreading the word” of the Landmark forum as a sign of the participants’ “integrity.” If they had integrity, they would, like Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi, take courage to spread the beliefs of the Landmark Forum to all their friends, enroll them in the program, get them to come to the famed Tuesday night ending ceremony for their free introductory session.
I clocked four hours devoted to this subject on Saturday. I clocked the first three hours of the Sunday session to the subject: including suggestions to bring our children for special youth landmark forums geared to get them started early in the Landmark, at age fifteen (alone) or at age eight (if accompanied by a parent). Yes even little ones have rackets.
from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…ndmark-forum_b_90028.htmlTo be fair, it's not exactly a 'cult' by most peoples definition, although it certainly shares some traits with more insidious organisations; The Governments of France, Germany and The Netherlands are particularly interested in their methods and intentions.
And more importantly, it's also not exactly Science, or LENR either, so why it deserves to be mentioned so often is anyone's guess.
-
Quote from STDM: “If they had doubts about the first test, you think they would hire him for the second?”
Did they have doubts about the first test? I did not know that. Where did you hear it?Did they hire Penon? I have not heard that. Rossi hired…
so Jed, you confirm that the e-cat produces excess heat?
-
<a href="https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/User/1706-STDM/">@STDM</a>,
IH denies there was a GPT
IH denies there was an ERV for a test in Florida, or that Penon was the ERV in Florida.
Even Rossi does not state that Penon was the ERV for Florida in his lawsuit. He only says that Penon was the ERV for the Validation.Didn't they pay the 10million?
-
Didn't they pay the 10million?
That was after Validation in Ferrara, and has almost nothing to do with Florida. It's not like Penon was hired as ERV for life. Note that he is present in the background of many tests, for many years, and may not be truly independent.
IH claims the Validation was rigged somehow. If they would publish the data, it might be possible to see what was going on. I expect if they have the files, experts were hired to look through them.
(There are a lot of test data files stuffed away that would be handy, like Lugano also). -
Quote from STDM: “Didn't they pay the 10million?”
That was after Validation in Ferrara, and has almost nothing to do with Florida. It's not like Penon was hired as ERV for life. Note that he is present in the background of many tests, for many…
You miss the point, IH had already experience with Penon(see point 57 below). He made the evaluation test report. If his report didn't match the findings of IH. Why would IH make Penon the ERV?(both Rossi & IH had a say in it)
"57. The Validation testing occurred from April 30 through May 1, 2013. The testing
lasted for slightly less than the 24-hour period required by the Validation Protocol and included
only 18 E-Cat reactors. On or about May 7, 2013, Penon issued his Evaluation Test Report on
the Validation test (the “Evaluation Report”). According to the Evaluation Report, the 18
individual E-Cat reactors tested over the course of the 23 1/2 hour period produced a COP of 10.85." -
I think you are missing the point. IH did not have their own testers in Ferrara. They relied on Rossi's experts. They may have been satisfied that Penon should have the required qualifications at that time.
IH didn't have (big) trouble with the Validation until extensive testing of their own began in NC, after the Validation, at which time IH should have received all the IP, as required for the $10 million payment.
Even with Rossi there, IH could not get the 10.85 COP, or anything close to it in NC (if anything at all in excess). -
Quote
Why would IH make Penon the ERV?(both Rossi & IH had a say in it)
Why? because they are negligent and incompetent, don't care all that much about invested money, the same reasons they didn't check out Rossi or his claims properly in the first place, using credible and independent experts.
-
I think you are missing the point. IH did not have their own testers in Ferrara. They relied on Rossi's experts. They may have been satisfied that Penon should have the required qualifications at that time.
Actually, my sense is that IH had decided to play along with Rossi mishegas, before they ever signed the Agreement. They knew the risks. Rossi insisted on Penon and refused to allow any independent experts. This was same-old same-old. Technically, yes, IH consented to Penon as ERV for the Validation Test and allowed the deal to go through, putting the $10 million in escrow.QuoteIH didn't have (big) trouble with the Validation until extensive testing of their own began in NC, after the Validation, at which time IH should have received all the IP, as required for the $10 million payment.
Even with Rossi there, IH could not get the 10.85 COP, or anything close to it in NC (if anything at all in excess).
That is clearly what they report. This was, in fact, one of the two results they were willing to pay $11.5 million and other costs for. Yes or No. When this situation continued for years, they knew beyond a reasonable doubt: Rossi had no effect or had not disclosed his real methods.Rossi had always claimed that the market would decide. IH created a market and bought a 1 MW reactor, that didn't work when they tested it, even with, apparently, the full contractually-obligated cooperation of Rossi.
(we don't have a report that IH tested the whole original megawatt reactor, but if it were me, I'd have tested individual units. Their reactor. They could do that, and it would be far easier than a whole-reactor test. So I assume they did it.)
This is about as definitive a "market answer" as I can imagine. On the negative side, that is. On the positive side, sure. What I called "Plan A." E-Cats at Home Depot. Or even just available for megawatt installations for distributed heating.
Anyone else willing to put in that kind of money again, after reading the case documents? After seeing that Rossi has been deceptive?
Planet Rossi is holding on to the idea that somehow IH has faked the documents and is lying about this or that. If Planet Rossi can put together the funding for another "Test," they remain free. I would wish them luck.
However, it has all become way too obvious if anyone actually studies the case. And if I were thinking of investing more than a million dollars, I would either study them myself or hire someone competent to read them. Due diligence. Investors who don't do due diligence get screwed, often.
-
Quote: “Why would IH make Penon the ERV?(both Rossi & IH had a say in it)”
Why? because they are negligent and incompetent, don't care all that much about invested money, the same reasons they didn't check out Rossi or his claims properly in the…
MY,
What is your opinion on the Texas Tech (possible, but seemingly likely) finding that Bill Gates is the investor with Dr. Duncan's group? You have already stated that Dr. Duncan was "incompetent" and not reliable. (I believe that is the gist of your statements, please correct me if I am wrong on that) So if it does indeed turn out that Bill Gates is funding Dr. Duncan, are you putting Gates in the same category as IH? While Dr. Duncan has not been accused of fraud, you have stated that he has spent (millions?) over the year(s) at Missouri U with nothing to show for it. So does this fall into the same category... Bill Gates would be negligent and incompetent.Or do you simply feel that he is not involved at all and this "seemingly proposed" connection is a dreamers dream? In your opinion, can any one invest into LENR research and not be foolish?
Thanks.
