Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • I disagree - are you really convinced, that a "nuclear driven" device (I can hardly imagine that the QuarkX or whatever the marketing and the product name may convey, will come to market without mentioning the nature of the heat / electricity generation, which is for sure part of the IFU) will be available for do-it-yourself tinkerers who are keen in building their own home-made-kits? Never - from a safety and regulatory perspective. Modifying a device with a specific intended use to a non-specified non-tested and non-released use of course will always be possible but on your own full risk, unless the product or kit is already designed for that purpose. In that case it must cover potential risks resulting in described modifications anyway (forseeable misuse by manufacturer...)

    If you burn down your home due to a failed "modified on your own" QuarkX, you are done. No one will cover your costs/damage...not sure if this will help to promote the device.

    I am emphasizing this topic, because it seems that not many here are aware of what it requires to qualify such a new groundbreaking technology/device. It is NOT a simple electrical heater anymore, esp. if it as claimed can run for hours, days and months in SSM. BTW - would you buy a device which energy or heat producing internal system is unknown. It cannot be unknown, since it needs a heavy global marketing campaign. How else can somebody sell millions of heaters or ligth/energy generators from his robotized factories?


    As long as cost of energy is > 0 , if you cheaply can build your own people will do it. In essence it is a money printing machine. Will someone ever buy such a machine? Well ... It's way beyond an insurance problem... (and somebody will happily offer that insurance as well) Hey, they do it for cars, and those are really dangerous...


    In the end though cost of energy will approach zero. It will be all about bandwidth and information. As Rossi says it will be integrated and energy co's will charge you a flat fee for a 10-100-1000 kW cable, unless you produce yourself. Just like the Internet . Well actually less since there is not any added value to the actual connections in the energy grid only in convenience and reliability (initially at least). But if it can be produced on site easily and reliably that feature will also disappear. No need for expensive transports.

  • Obtaining UL certification (where I presume UL is 'Underwriters Laboratory) is in contrast, I have been told, an expensive and highly formalised process

    Yes, it is Underwriters Laboratory, and yes it is formalized and it costs a fortune.


    UL is a corporate entity, with no governmental authority, but it has de facto authority. It is an insurance company consortium. No insurance company will issue a policy to ensure the safety of equipment not certified by UL. No store or equipment supplier in the U.S. would think of selling a machine not certified by UL. If something went wrong and there was an injury, death, or property damage, the store would be sued to a fare-thee-well.


    I doubt UL would work with Rossi as an individual. He would have to have a company, a factory and employees. See:


    https://www.ul.com/aboutul/what-we-do/whom-we-work-with/


    If another company had a contract to manufacture his devices, they could have the product certified. They would have to provide UL with every single detail about the product, including the vendors of the faceplate screws, and with several working prototypes the same in every detail with the final commercial product. Needless to say, there is no such company or prototype.


    I am pretty sure that in course of doing this, UL would measure the efficiency. They do with things like air conditioners and boilers. Assuming the thing works, they would find it is "over unity," meaning it produces energy out of nowhere, or with unknown nuclear reactions. That would bring the approval process to a halt. No corporate regulator would consider approving a machine that works by unknown principles. That would be insane. Rossi would first have to wait for the National Laboratories and the academic establishment to figure out how and why the thing works. That would take years and cost billions of dollars. I am sure it would be done, and it would be worth billions of dollars, but anyway, I am sure you cannot sell nuclear reactors that work by unknown principles anywhere in the world.


    Assuming the thing does not work -- which I am sure is the case -- UL would not approve it because it does not work. Unlike the Patent Office, they are in the business of confirming that equipment does what it is claimed to do in the specifications.

  • All you really need is a proven formula and pre made pattern, maybe from a 3D printer. The formula. The "Pixie dust" will never stay a secret~ its already within this forum.

    If a pre made formula that will meltdown the unit in the event of a runaway should be all thats needed. but that discussion should be in another thread. Peace

  • After reading what it takes to get certification, you just have to laugh at Rossi's go it alone strategy. His boasts of mass production to smother the competitors, is just that...a boast. Same goes for the 356/Suhas types that think they are on to something. Best thing for them after they allow MFMP to verify, is to run to the nearest big energy company and partner up. They have the resources and deep pockets to get the job done. An individual, or even a small group....forget it.


    And if certification is not daunting enough to steer them to GE, the patent mess will.

  • Some vertical clamps, some washing machine hose, a nice DC power supply, a 1 ohm 25 W resistor, an automotive HID ballast, and an Xenon short arc bulb (handle carefully), some spare lamp cord, some alligator clamps, a couple DVMs, a few solder-less connectors, a few crimp clamps and hose clamps, an orbit irrigation coupler, some electrical tape, a bit of mineral oil, a digital thermometer, small blister pack of stove bolts, a spare piece of 2x4, a couple of project boxes or rat traps....

  • The term "hero" comes from the ancient Greeks. For them, a hero was a mortal who had done something so far beyond the scope of human effort. The hero left an immortal memory behind him when he was no more. The hero was worshiped like the gods. He joined them in their pantheon. The hero is a great benefactor of humankind: Hercules, the monster killer; Asclepius, the first doctor; Dionysus, the creator of Greek fraternities. Heroes were always extraordinary; to be a hero was to expand people's sense of what was possible for a human being.


    Today, we still call heroes those whom we admire and wish to emulate. But still the concept retains that original link to possibility. We need heroes first and foremost because our heroes help define the limits of our aspirations. We largely define our ideals by the heroes we choose, and our ideals -- things like courage, honor, and accomplishment -- largely define us. Our heroes are symbols for us of all the qualities we would like to possess and all the ambitions we would like to satisfy. A person can choose Martin Luther King or Susan B. Anthony. Our heros still embrace human excellence. And because the ideals to which we aspire do so much to determine the ways in which we behave, we all have a vested interest in each person having heroes, and in the choice of heroes each of us makes.


    LENR needs a hero, someone to be emulated and act a template for excellence, accomplisment and caring. We need Rossi as our hero.

    Yeah, well. You shouldn't quote without attribution; and you missed out a bit, to wit " But people who had committed unthinkable crimes were also called heroes; Oedipus and Medea, for example, received divine worship after their deaths as well."

  • Who can say that LENR gets energy from nuclear processes. It could be extracting energy from the vacuum , or from axions, or from dark energy or dark matter or from magnetic resonance. The Quark may function in the same way that the quantum computer functions using anions. The solid state product business is replete with products that use quantum effects that are not yet understood. Does every law of nature require full understanding before a product that uses them can be sold?

  • "It could be extracting energy from the vacuum , or from axions, or from dark energy or dark matter or from magnetic resonance"....


    ,,,,the more no one in industry would start selling or approving such a product, if it would work, because there is no chance to argue to authorities what the hell this thing does, or more important: no clue what it could do. At the end of the day it creates a black hole? :-)

  • What you suggest is in any case not what Rossi said he did in the paper, nor the whiteboard, nor originally in response to further questioning.


    THH, your thinking is narrow and quite constrained. Do you not suppose that Rossi and his team have measured the device in every which way? Why wouldn't they?


    Do you really suppose that they have only measured it the way that is shown on the whiteboard? Or perhaps they have measured it only in the way that it is described in the paper. Or maybe they have measured it only in the way that it was described in response to further questioning? LOL.


    Or maybe Rossi always simply assumed the resistance of the reactor was zero, and didn't bother to ever actually measure it. LOL.

  • How is the output measured? How is the temp measured? Does he assume blackbody radiation?

    As Rossi mentioned earlier & I later quoted, in his on going experiments he surrounds the E-Cat QX with a liquid and measures the temperature rise. He doesn't have to assume blackbody radiation. What he will do in the demo remains to be seen. You really need to do some homework.

  • As long as cost of energy is > 0 , if you cheaply can build your own people will do it. In essence it is a money printing machine.



    Indeed. The cryptocurrency mining aficionados will literally be printing money as soon as a working kit is made available. There would be no stopping them. They don't hold back simply because some government regulator tells them not to or doesn't like it. If that were the case, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies wouldn't even exist today.

  • After reading what it takes to get certification, you just have to laugh at Rossi's go it alone strategy. His boasts of mass production to smother the competitors, is just that...a boast. Same goes for the 356/Suhas types that think they are on to something. Best thing for them after they allow MFMP to verify, is to run to the nearest big energy company and partner up. They have the resources and deep pockets to get the job done. An individual, or even a small group....forget it.

    You are only master of unproven insults & negative opinions.

    Rossi says he has approached UL. How do you know he hasn't? He says it will be easier to get certification (not UL) for industrial use. That UL will be necessary for domestic units and that will take a long time.


    As for running to the nearest big energy company, that would almost certainly mean you'll get robbed and it will take longer. Rossi has apparently developed a relationship with ABB Robotics, one of the largest companies in robotics, who would certainly be competent enough to put together an automated. modular plant for the small E-Cat QX.

    1. Svein Henrik November 13, 2017 at 7:28 AM

      Dear Andrea.


      Congratulations for achieving Sigma 5. I am unsure what this compromise.


      Do it means that this super high security counts for:


      1. The observation of an anomalous heat is real?


      2. The COP of the heat is higher than 6?


      3. Or COP is higher than 50?


      4. The QX tested, will supply 20W continuously in a year?


      5. The QX do function totally at least in 8760 hours with an interrupted use?


      6. The QX will function in 10 years with 10% intermittent?


      7. A robotic production will be of the same quality or better?


      8. The possibility to control the units?


      9. No harmful radiation is present?


      10. No risk for run off or melt down?


      11. Or all the 10 above?


      I hope you may answer 11 and this is a result of all the different tests you have performed.


      Best wishes for the demo and a soon coming mass production as the world is full of “San Tommaso Apostolo”.


      Regards Svein Henrik.

    2. Translate Andrea Rossi November 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM

      Svein Henrik:


      1- no


      2- 11


      Warm Regards,


      A.R.

  • So according to Rossi, the device functions to provide 20W for a year but runs on a 10% duty cycle. How is that possible? Does it make 200W while running? Rossi's two character responses show his need to be succinct. That is why most of the time, he doesn't answer difficult questions at all.


    axil

    You say my head will explode but you are the one making ever expanding nonsense posts, are you not?

  • As Rossi mentioned earlier & I later quoted, in his on going experiments he surrounds the E-Cat QX with a liquid and measures the temperature rise. He doesn't have to assume blackbody radiation. What he will do in the demo remains to be seen. You really need to do some homework.

    where on this forum has Rossi every posted much less mentioned methods. Please point to your reference.


    The question then becomes what liquid is used and how is its specific heat evaluated, how is it mixed, how is its temperature measured, is it flowing or static, Please give me a reference to how it is measured since I don't see it posted anywhere.

  • So according to Rossi, the device functions to provide 20W for a year but runs on a 10% duty cycle. How is that possible? Does it make 200W while running? Rossi's two character responses show his need to be succinct. That is why most of the time, he doesn't answer difficult questions at all.


    axil

    You say my head will explode but you are the one making ever expanding nonsense posts, are you not?

    I interpret the 10% duty cycle to apply to the unshilded reactor with the transparent tube exposed to the air. The thermally cooled and shielded tube will function continuously.


    It is like a car running without a coolant. The engine will overheat in a short time then require a long time to cool off before it is restated for the next cycle.

  • where on this forum has Rossi every posted much less mentioned methods. Please point to your reference.


    The question thin becomes what liquid is used and how is its specific heat evaluated, how is it mixed, how is its temperature measured, is it flowing or static, Please give me a reference to how it is measured since I don't see it posted anywhere.

    I'm not going to do your homework for you.

    Rossi said he was using oil for the liquid and then using a heat exchanger for the oil to heat flowing water

  • Some vertical clamps, some washing machine hose, a nice DC power supply, a 1 ohm 25 W resistor, an automotive HID ballast, and an Xenon short arc bulb (handle carefully), some spare lamp cord, some alligator clamps, a couple DVMs, a few solder-less connectors, a few crimp clamps and hose clamps, an orbit irrigation coupler, some electrical tape, a bit of mineral oil, a digital thermometer, small blister pack of stove bolts, a spare piece of 2x4, a couple of project boxes or rat traps....


    Don't worry, this is all gone. :-)

    Rossi stated meanwhile he has reached SIgma 5 (that includes btw millions of real and simulated equivalent test procedures, so fails / safety problems can be excluded with more than 99% probability...). I think we cannot expect to see this kind of stuff on Nov. 24th, more a product that shall be ready to go to his robotized lines, if he is right with his claims....

  • Quote

    One reason you write much rubbish because you can't understand basic English.

    The question was, if the E-Cat QX ran only 10% of the time would it last ten years. Rossi said yes.

    Ah, thanks. I know so much more now. But believe me, Rossi's claims don't improve on careful reading. Quite the contrary.

  • AA, Rossi’s list of impressive claims over the years would fill several screens. And you believe every one of them, including those that are mutually exclusive.

    Vaporware is continually generated by high tech companies to keep the competition at bay. Such production of disinformation is standard operating procedure.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware


    "Vaporware" was coined by a Microsoft engineer in 1982 to describe the company's Xenix operating system, and first appeared in print in a newsletter by entrepreneur Esther Dysonin 1983. It became popular among writers in the industry as a way to describe products they felt took too long to be released. InfoWorld magazine editor Stewart Alsop helped popularize it by lampooning Bill Gates with a Golden Vaporware award for the late release of his company's first version of Windows in 1985.


    Bill Gates was the king of vaporware, and his product development and competitive position in the market was sucessful.

  • AA, Rossi’s list of impressive claims over the years would fill several screens. And you believe every one of them, including those that are mutually exclusive.

    No, not every one of them. He sometimes gets carried away. As time has passed he has learned more and I accept his present claims unless they are proved wrong. Rather like in court you assume the person is innocent until proven guilty. You ALWAYS assume he is guilty until proven innocent.

    As forecast, the critics will keep on until the last moment.