Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • There has always been the alternative theory to explain Rossi's actions, and that is "he has something, but not what he claims". 20-30% overunity, and fairly reliable maybe, which is about what many others replicating him, and those he replicated, report. That would account for many of his actions from the beginning to now. Maybe after all these years of failing to make a fortune selling a souped up illusion, and ripping people off, he is getting realistic this time, and selling the heat at the more realistic 20% discount?


    Just throwing that out there, so go easy on me. :)

  • Quote

    He would not work long hours if he were only a scam artist. There would be no need to work at all. He has done original and creative work developing things like engines that run on organic oil. He made a great deal of money doing that. Also, as I pointed out several times, some of his experiments seemed to work, including this one which we know for a fact he did not touch (there was continuous video coverage ensuring that)

    You'd be surprised at how many things you have to understand and control to succeed at a complex technology scam. And that's before you even get to the part where you get the stuff needed to throw it together. Then, you have to test to make sure the sleight of hand or "mismeasurement" tricks you use will work "correctly" and won't be discovered. It's a serious business.


    Where did you get the part where Rossi made money on engines that ran on organic oil? I bet this story originated from Rossi. And how do you know how much money he made at it? And that it was original and creative? And not another scam like Petroldragon?


    As for ecat experiments which seemed to work, that most likely means that Rossi occasionally succeeded in his tricks and managed to fool scientists who, after all, are usually unsuspecting of technical demos and do not expect or know how to detect deception.

  • Quote

    There has always been the alternative theory to explain Rossi's actions, and that is "he has something, but not what he claims". 20-30% overunity, and fairly reliable maybe, which is about what many others replicating him, and those he replicated, report. That would account for many of his actions from the beginning to now.

    No it wouldn't. Any overunity involving 20% of kilowatts of power out compared to power in and using the methods claimed by Rossi, would be a world-shaking discovery and would be treated that way by investors. Look how little IH had to go on when they simply gave Rossi more than ten f'n million dollars! The same reasoning applies also to Rossi's alleged replicators.

  • You can't give even on full quotation I have made that states it was proven.. You just babble in order to post another insult to Rossi


    Indeed, you don't explicitly state that Rossi's nonsense is proven. You simply speak as though it was demonstrated to be factual. Here are direct quotes from your recent comments about Rossi:


    -He is selling heat to reduce the risk to customers, get clients, make some money and keep the process secret until he has a large manufacturing facility up and running.

    -He has a client already who wants 40 MW,

    -The SK is what is being developed and produced.

    -It is the SK production line that is being built.

    -The QX has an output of 1 kW that would be suitable for home heating.

    -Also that his large client is in a position to continue the work should he become ill.

    -Several key problems have been solved with QX.


    You don't seem capable of realizing that there is absolutely no corroboration for any of these statements. You just accept them as truth because your hero said them on his imbecilic blog.

    But then, your thought process is clearly the absolute inverse of that of a critical thinker, as witnessed by this gem of yours:


    -You have NO hint, let alone proof that a factory is not being built.


    I also don’t have a hint, let alone proof that you aren’t Rossi’s secret love child. But I can make a pretty good guess.

  • You'd be surprised at how many things you have to understand and control to succeed at a complex technology scam.

    The Doral scam was not complex.


    Then, you have to test to make sure the sleight of hand or "mismeasurement" tricks you use will work "correctly" and won't be discovered.

    Anyone would see through the Doral scam in a few minutes, just by walking into the room. It wasn't hot. Or by looking at the data or the Penon report.


    Where did you get the part where Rossi made money on engines that ran on organic oil?

    Various reliable sources, but I cannot be sure. I have not looked into it.


    And how do you know how much money he made at it?

    That's what I have heard but I cannot vouch for it.


    As for ecat experiments which seemed to work, that most likely means that Rossi occasionally succeeded in his tricks and managed to fool scientists who, after all, are usually unsuspecting of technical demos and do not expect or know how to detect deception.

    Many of the tests were under Rossi's control, and he may well have done something to give the wrong answer. But some tests were not under his control. The test in the U.S. was conducted entirely with standard HVAC instruments owned by the researchers here, using standard methods. Rossi was in Europe the whole time. He had nothing to do with it. As far as I can tell, it worked.


    In the first Levi test, I believe Levi brought all of the instruments. Rossi did not touch them, as shown on the continuous video. Even if he had touched them, there is no way to make a modern integrated-electronic instrument show the wrong value. (You could make old fashioned analog instruments with discrete components give the wrong answer.) You can make an electronic instrument give the wrong answer by setting it up wrong. For example, by putting the wrong size flowmeter in a half empty pipe. But, as long as the instruments are installed correctly, used according to the manual, and calibrated, there is no way to make them produce the wrong answer. Levi et al. decided where the instruments would go, and they picked all of the methods. The instruments and methods are described in detail in the report. I do not see any errors in it large enough to explain the excess heat. Do you? If you do not, you have no basis to say it was wrong. That does not mean it was right. It would have to replicated several times to be sure of that. But there is no reason to think it was wrong.


    Saying "Rossi made it go wrong" is no explanation. There are no technical facts we can examine to confirm that. It is tantamount to saying you have no idea what made it wrong but you think Rossi might have done something and you don't know what. That's not falsifiable. It is just a gut feeling.


    Perhaps the people in the U.S., and Levi, were in cahoots with Rossi. I wouldn't know about that. Assuming the reports are honest, it seems he may have had real heat. Without replications it is impossible to know.

  • Levi et al. decided where the instruments would go, and they picked all of the methods. The instruments and methods are described in detail in the report. I do not see any errors in it large enough to explain the excess heat. Do you? If you do not, you have no basis to say it was wrong.

    Whereas I see LOTS of problems with the follow-up study: the Lugano report.


    Many people here have said that the IR camera was used incorrectly at Lugano. Levi et al. computed the wrong temperature from it. That would be an example of using an intergrated-electronic instrument the wrong way, not according to the manual, giving the wrong answer. I do not think that could have been a problem in the first Levi study because they confirmed the IR camera readings with a thermocouple. Why they did not do that Lugano I cannot say. It seems crazy not to have done that!


    It was also crazy not to calibrate at the same power levels the cell supposedly produced. There was a lot of crazy stuff at Lugano. Enough to make a person suspect Levi was in cahoots with Rossi.

  • Indeed, you don't explicitly state that Rossi's nonsense is proven.

    So why did you lie saying I had stated things were proven so many times?

    He is selling heat to reduce the risk to customers, get clients, make some money and keep the process secret until he has a large manufacturing facility up and running.

    As you know, that was my reply to Director regarding Rossi's apparent plans for the future.

    It says nothing about anything being proven.

    I have stated several times there is not enough good evidence to prove anything and we should wait and see. Is your memory really that bad?


    As usual you babble nonsense and make more non relevant insults about Rossi. If Rossi upsets you so much you should see a shrink. It is not healthy.

  • I think the reason a thermocouple was not used in Lugano was that the 3-phase driver circuit for the device used there would have actually induced enough stray voltage into the thermocouple output wires to make it give a ridiculously high reading*. And that would never do.


    * I have seen that happen in the past.

  • Quote

    Perhaps the people in the U.S., and Levi, were in cahoots with Rossi. I wouldn't know about that. Assuming the reports are honest, it seems he may have had real heat. Without replications it is impossible to know



    Quote

    The test in the U.S. was conducted entirely with standard HVAC instruments owned by the researchers here, using standard methods. Rossi was in Europe the whole time. He had nothing to do with it. As far as I can tell, it worked.


    Which US test are we talking about which was supposedly done with Rossi far away? I mean, is there a link? Who did these tests and how? Is it a test I would be familiar with from just keeping up with forums?

  • There has always been the alternative theory to explain Rossi's actions, and that is "he has something, but not what he claims". 20-30% overunity, and fairly reliable maybe, which is about what many others replicating him, and those he replicated, report. That would account for many of his actions from the beginning to now. Maybe after all these years of failing to make a fortune selling a souped up illusion, and ripping people off, he is getting realistic this time, and selling the heat at the more realistic 20% discount?


    Just throwing that out there, so go easy on me. :)


    I don't buy that theory. I think Rossi has been able to produce kilowatts of power at enormous COP in the past. His earliest systems seemed to have been capable of producing such power output with ease. Even the reactors in his first one megawatt plant were allegedly capable of going into self sustain mode with one hundred watts of RF power being the only input for the whole plant.


    To account for his actions is simple: he wants it all. The E-Cat technology, in his opinion, is his ticket to total market domination of an industry. However, the problem is that he knows the basic fundamentals of how to build systems such as his is NOT THAT COMPLICATED. The problem is that most individuals are not willing to work non-ceasingly day after day and year after year like he has done. Regardless of all the negative things that can be said about him, he is obsessive compulsive about his work. If anyone were willing to perform such rapid testing, they could figure it out too. So in addition to not being willing to accept anything less than total market domination, he has become paranoid and secretive.


    Looking back at his games and schemes, they have all been about getting the money to move forward towards the BEST system that no one can exceed without giving anything away that could help potential competitors. Every system up until now has been abandoned because he came across something BETTER that he knew a larger team would discover very quickly. So to prevent proving the reality of his technology, he performed sloppy (barely adequate) tests that prevented most parties from taking him seriously while allowing him to get investment funds.


    I may be wrong because we need proof that it works, but I think the QX/SK are devices that cannot be easily exceeded. They can be instantly turned on and off (perfect control), can be configured to produce little harmful radiation, produce high reaction rates, and don't have many of the problems of powder based systems. The downside from Rossi's point of view is that the tech can be easily copied. It's technology that has been re-invented over and over again.


    I'm not too interested in what Rossi does from this point on. I would like for him to make a deal with a large company, but I don't expect that will ever happen. What I hope is that someone will replicate the QX and be open about the results so that a tidal wave of non-commercial replications can take place.

  • Alan Smith :

    Quote

    I think the reason a thermocouple was not used in Lugano was that the 3-phase driver circuit for the device used there would have actually induced enough stray voltage into the thermocouple output wires to make it give a ridiculously high reading*. And that would never do.

    Why was 3-phase power required or preferred? We're talking a couple of kW and most of the output was supposed to originate with the supposed reaction.


    JedRothwell : I have to say it again. In any confidence scheme, it's usually the part you don't get that gets you.

  • As I said: “Indeed, you don't explicitly state that Rossi's nonsense is proven. You simply speak as though it was demonstrated to be factual“.


    However, you as the greatest babbler* of all, are only fixated on all the meanies picking on your poor hero and continue to ignore the fact that you are spouting unsubstantiated and often impossible nonsense as though there was any reason to believe any of it.


    Since you are not an LENR skeptic, you are permitted to speculate about my mental health as a form of debate. I am not permitted to reciprocate, so have a nice day.



    * babbler - n. An obnoxious and foolish and loquatious talker



  • Quote

    I don't buy that theory. I think Rossi has been able to produce kilowatts of power at enormous COP in the past.


    If Rossi could do that and he is not making money from it hand over first, there are only two possibilities:


    1) he's completely insane

    2) he's from another planet


    Your contrived explanation about waiting for total domination of markets is absurd. Radical and highly profitable inventions come along from time to time. Almost all follow the usual patter of patenting, disclosure, seeking investments and putting together the means of production. In eight years, Rossi has done nothing approaching that sequence of events. Not even the first step. The patents he has are meaningless and worthless because they merely describe a heater and they do not reveal how one with the required skills (substitute patent patter here) could build one that worked.

  • Once you get inventors syndrome you are to a certain degree insane. You don't think rationally. Patterson is a great example that predates Rossi. He gave up a potential fortune (perhaps millions or billions of dollars) because he couldn't achieve total market domination (trillions of dollars). When you are a single person (not a company with a board of directors and share holders) there's not much accountability that can keep such obsessive, greedy thinking in check. In the end, it destroys you.

  • Director - very creative re-write attempt. While there were mitigating factors, self-inflicted wounds and some bad breaks, Patterson failed mainly because he ran out of beads that worked and could never figure out how to make a working replacement batch.

  • Jed,


    My first boss out of college told me

    “Never confuse activity with accomplishment”.

    After I thought about it, (at 22 years old),

    it made a lot of sense.

    Rossi has accomplished nothing yet, maybe that will change, but I don’t think so.

  • I think the reason a thermocouple was not used in Lugano was that the 3-phase driver circuit for the device used there would have actually induced enough stray voltage into the thermocouple output wires to make it give a ridiculously high reading*. And that would never do.


    * I have seen that happen in the past.

    Alan,


    I have never seen that.

    Not saying it does t happen tho.


    1. What was the medium being heated?

    2. Was the heater connected wye or delta?

  • Quote

    Patterson failed mainly because he ran out of beads that worked and could never figure out how to make a working replacement batch.


    Patterson probably failed because he never had anything that worked and was deluding himself and others. The Wikipedia entry notes that Patterson's company was formed around 1995 and he died in 2008. That should have left plenty of time to accomplish enough to get prototypes made and properly evaluated. According to that same Wiki, Patterson's company, CETI, provided a complete kit to Earthtech so they could replicate the work and they were unable to do so.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson_power_cell

  • JedRothwell: I have to say it again. In any confidence scheme, it's usually the part you don't get that gets you.

    You miss the point. If you don't get that part, you cannot say it is scam. I can point to specific technical reasons showing that Doral was a scam. I cannot point to any reasons showing the first Levi report was a scam. Therefore I have no technical or scientific reasons to say it was. Neither do you, as far as I know. You can say that your gut feeling is it must be a scam. You can say that based on Rossi's history and personality it is very likely to be a scam. That's reasonable. I agree with both statements. But they cannot be debated, proved, or falsified. There is no proof. Whereas there is loads of proof that Doral was a scam.