Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from IH Fanboy

Do you feel such adhoms bolster your points?

Yes it would be far fetched. It would be idiotic. And as I've said before, if Rossi or his team downsized the exit pipe to DN40 then they would be imbeciles, and I would mark them all up as entirely incompetent. It would be so easy to prove. Dewey says they took pictures and measurements, but has always dodged the simple question of whether Exhibit 5 was accurate in stating that the piping was DN40. Now his mantra is: the pipe size doesn't matter. Do you think Dewey is stating that the pipe size doesn't matter if the pipe size really was DN40? Think about that one.

So you think Rossi ripped out the pipe from the outside of the container? Like that wouldn't go unnoticed. Your conspiracies are ridiculous.

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it is easy to unscrew and remove a pipe from the other side of a wall if the inside is fixed against rotation.

by the way, why assume it was unnoticed or that "we" have any indication if it was or was not? You are making wild assumptions.

Quote from IH Fanboy

And if your buddies are telling you the truth, then IH wins. Now, let's see if they can prove it.

The photos of the installation prove it. Rossi's data proves it. The moment I saw that, I knew it was bogus nonsense. The fact that you cannot see that tells me you have no experience with steam or machinery, and absolutely no idea what 1 MW of heat is like. Or even 60 kW.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Seems to be around 1.3 MW for 36000 kgs water and typical ERV tank and steam temperatures.

They arbitrarily reduce the flow number from 36,000 kg to 32,400 kg, to be "conservative" (they said). By a remarkable coincidence, this happens to add up to almost exactly 1 MW of continuous heat, even on days when the reactor was turned off, and when daylight savings changes shortened or lengthened the day.

@ Jed,

Even with no phase change, if the flow meter was installed correctly, there was significant excess heat, by your own admission. It all comes down to the flow meter placement. I look forward to seeing what evidence either side can bring to bear on that issue.

As for possible pipe sizes able to accommodate steam: With a DN80 pipe, assuming a pressure of 0 kPaG (1 atm), a flow of 1343 kg/hr, assuming a six meter pipe, the velocity of the steam would be 116 m/s, and most importantly, the pressure loss would be minuscule at 5.47 kPa (0.78 psi). The difference between DN40 to DN80 is gigantic when it comes to pressure loss.

Quote from JedRothwell

The photos of the installation prove it.

Please post the photo that proves it. As far as I know, there is no photo that is public showing the flow meter placement.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Seems to be around 1.3 MW for 36000 kgs water and typical ERV tank and steam temperatures.

But anyways.. (that should be COP to Almost Boil Water, below)

36000kg/day = 1500kg/hour = 0.4kg/s (approx).

water specific heat = 4kJ/kgC

so power = 0.4*4*40 kW = 64kW

At reduced flowrate to 1/4 or so it matches the input power, as Jed points out. I actually think this more likely than that the temp measurements are badly wrong. But that remains very possible at the moment.

You get the 1MW from the assumed 100% phase change, for which there is no evidence.

Quote from IH Fanboy

So you think Rossi ripped out the pipe from the outside of the container? Like that wouldn't go unnoticed. Your conspiracies are ridiculous

FanBoy, you simple don't get it (or you just pretend not to understand):

No, I never said Rossi ripped out any piping from the container.

I am talking about a connection pipe which connects the 1MW plant with the "customer side".

The connecting point for that pipe is outside of the container.

(The first photo from the linke below shows where the connection pipe supposed to be hooked up - at the end of the blind-capped pipe)

Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

And yes, it would be stupid to use a (undersized) DN40 pipe for that purpose - same stupid as installing a completely oversized flow meter etc. etc.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Even with no phase change, if the flow meter was installed correctly, there was significant excess heat, by your own admission. It all comes down to the flow meter placement. I look forward to seeing what evidence either side can bring to bear on that issue.

You have already seen the evidence, in spades. The ridiculous numbers in Penon's data tell you the data was imaginary crap. Or do you think the flow rate and temperatures remained the same on days when Rossi reported the reactor was turned off? Do you believe in miracles?

The photos of the building and the photos of Rossi standing around in an overcoat tell you there could not have been 60 kW of heat, never mind 1 MW. Do you have even a clue what it would be like in a warehouse with 60 kW of heat and no ventilation? 6 times more heating than an ordinary house? In Florida, in summer? Do you think the airconditioning could have coped with that? If the doors were left wide open it would be tolerable but they were not left wide open.

Also, as I pointed out, your endless blather about the pipe size is nonsense. Just glance at actual pipes used for actual steam -- low pressure or high -- and you can see that 1.5" or 3" is too small, even for 60 kW. For once do your homework and make some common-sense observations of ordinary plumbing.

If the flow meter was installed correctly, they must have ignored it and stuffed the spreadsheets with fake numbers to make the heat come out to 1 MW, every day, even when the reactor was turned off or the time changed and the day was an hour shorter. If you cannot see that you are blind as a bat or mesmerized by Rossi.

Quote from Forty-Two

And yes, it would be stupid to use a (undersized) DN40 pipe for that purpose - same stupid as installing a completely oversized flow meter etc. etc.

Agreed. It would be stupid. All IH has to do is prove it happened. The DN40 issue has been debunked. Almost nobody here believes it was DN40. Not even Jed and THH are sticking their necks out on that one (any more).

@Jed

Your "reactor was off" "fake data" "overcoats" "common sense plumbing" points have all been explained, multiple times, by multiple participants here. It is your conjecture versus that of others. No need to repeatedly dredge up the same old arguments. Show me proof of misplacement of the flow meter, and I might come to your side.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I actually think this more likely than that the temp measurements are badly wrong.

I think so too, for various reasons, but I cannot make a convincing case for that.

With large-scale industrial equipment, temperature measures are often wrong by 5% or so. That's what the equipment manuals say. Usually it makes no difference. Accuracy is far more important than precision. Large inaccuracy would make a boiler dangerous, whereas if the temperature reading is imprecise, the thermostat will keep it at the desired temperature anyway, so that makes no difference.

For example, if this is for space heating, people will raise or lower the thermostat to whatever temperature they feel comfortable with. If that happens to be a few degrees off (high or low) from the actual temperature, no one will care or even notice. (Except me -- I check things like this. I have 4 thermometers of 3 different types, and two thermostats. I kid you not. I also sync the clocks in my house to the radio atomic clock signal. I am annoying like that.)

For some industrial chemical applications you need precise control over the temperature. That calls for expensive equipment.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Your "reactor was off" "fake data" "overcoats" "common sense plumbing" points have all been explained, multiple times, by multiple participants here.

In your dreams!

Quote from IH Fanboy

Almost nobody here believes it was DN40. Not even Jed and THH are sticking their necks out on that one (an

Don't put words in my mouth! I am sure it was DN40.

My point -- which you totally fail to grasp -- is that even DN80 (3") or 6" would not have been enough if this really was 1 MW, or even 60 kW. If you would actually look at a pipe that carries that much steam, you would see that for yourself.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Please post the photo that proves it. As far as I know, there is no photo that is public showing the flow meter placement.

Stop with the trolling. You know damn well what photos I mean. The photos that prove there could not have been 1 MW of heat without killing everyone, or even 60 kW with people wearing overcoats. Those photos prove that if the temperature really was 103°C the flow rate must have been about 4 times less than claimed. Unless you believe in thermodynamic miracles.

Quote from JedRothwell

Don't put words in my mouth! I am sure it was DN40.

Oh okay. I didn't know you were sticking with that canard even after it has been debunked.

Quote

My point -- which you totally fail to grasp -- is that even DN80 (3") or
6" would not have been enough if this really was 1 MW, or even 60 kW.
If you would actually look at a pipe that carries that much steam, you
would see that for yourself.

DN80 would be sufficient. DN100 would be better. DN40 would be entirely inadequate.

Quote from JedRothwell

Stop with the trolling. You know damn well what photos I mean. The photos that prove there could not have been 1 MW of heat without killing everyone, or even 60 kW with people wearing overcoats.

I'm not trolling. Simply provide me with a photo that shows the flow meter misplacement. I'm not asking for much. I don't care about your other conjecture.

IHFB is certainly annoying in the way of a troll. But I think he is more positively engaged than that. He wants Rossi LENR to be true, and bends all facts to breaking point to fit that unlikely scenario.

@THH

Who doesn't want Rossi LENR to be true? Well, I suppose those with connections to big oil probably don't. I've said what would bring me to IH's side. Proof of flow meter misplacement or malfunction. Because in my mind, whether the plant produced excess heat hinges on that question at this point.

Quote from IH Fanboy

DN80 would be sufficient. DN100 would be better.

Again, if you would look at an actual low pressure steam pipe used to convey ~20 to ~50 kW in an apartment or factory, you will see that it is much larger than DN80. A 1 MW pipe carrying 20 times that would either be 1' or 2', or it would explode.

You think you can just make stuff up and expect people to believe it. There are reference books and photos all over the internet which prove you have no clue and what you are saying is nonsense.

Quote from Bob

If you think I am a sock of IH, please provide the reasoning as well!

Socks are people that endlessly repeat stuff in "their favor" only! Just to fresh up your memory. 1!! year ago I did a little investigation, which showed that Rossis laywer rented the Doral warehouse. We all know this since one year just reread the old posts...

I say we, the ones with no agenda and no pro/contra animosity...

It is more than obvious that the fight for the technology is going into a kind of end-game. Why should Rossi fight for the 89Mio.?

It's all about IP and - may be for you the others a nice screen-play in reality format...

To my knowlege Ni-Li-H LENR works fine and the only remaining question is, whether we will see it in one year, or after some dedicated customers have been served first.., that's in about twenty years then...