Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

  • How do you get from Cherokee misallocating 100K legal expenses

    Expanses ware much more.....

    "The groups have already reimbursed all of the $455,698 in questionable expenses,"


    The number of found raised from investors is documented to be (not a RossiSay or TomTold). about 250M$.

  • At 7-13u alumina is pretty well opaque, so no such effect. Otherwise, if it were transparent, it could result in underestimation of temperature, depending on the emissivity of the internal source. But that would only be if you did not follow Levi and used the band emissivity correctly. Otherwise you still likely get overestimate of temperature.


    Just to clarify the reasoning behind the very quick thought I had - it's random idea-level, sorry if it ignores other discussions/conclusions:


    - The QuarkX sounds like it is something similar to a gas discharge lamp according to the most recent Rossisays.

    - Darden himself reported in a private email in 2014 of having seen "flashes of energy" in transparent tube reactors when heated with the Rossi fuel. These weren't the QuarkX yet.

    - If the reaction produces light, its spectral peaks can probably be tuned.

    - Alumina is opaque to the visible range, but is it actually to infrared light? If it's a small % transparent at the edge of the IR camera detection range, this could still potentially affect the reported temperature depending on the characteristics of the light source. I haven't found many sources about this property, but one seems to suggest that it could be transparent to some extent (item number 9 seems to be referring to alumina, not monocrystalline sapphire).

  • Indeed. Yet, the profs did not answer even this simple question from Jed. Based on the evidence from the alternative calculations and empirical evidence, the visible color is consistent with the operation at the high temp range (800s).


    Maybe they felt it was not in their interest and the best possible PR.
    Any way, I'm sure there are established channels for communication and feedback between them and the IH camp.

  • ... "The QuarkX sounds like it is something similar to a gas discharge lamp according to the most recent Rossisays":


    "Gas discharge lamp" based on embrittled soft ferrites embedded in variable B fields and "measured" in Lugano with IR cameras, near or below Curie point - the "mouse".

  • Here is one of the most expert persons regarding alumina infrared characteristics. I suggest reading several of his relevant papers on the subject.

    I suggest:

    DETERMINING THE TRANSMITTANCE AND EMITTANCE OF TRANSPARENT AND SEMITRANSPARENT MATERIALS AT ELEVATED TEMPERATURES

    and

    Development and characterization of low emitting ceramics


    (Papers by Rozenbaum et al are also excellent.)



    https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=axiRa44AAAAJ&hl=de

  • Even I have read some of that stuff - but only cos you posted it. my original ref was not as good. :)


    It will be good for Ele since he has not yet worked out that IR band emission from non-grey-bodies cannot be characterised from total emissivity.


  • :)


    OK - let us follow your logic and assume a fluorescent-type narrow spectral line in the 7-13u range. (Not that this is plausible from this system, and as I say alumina is opaque to IR, translucent to visible. The apparent opaqueness at visible you see comes from microcrystalline structure which causes much internal reflection see P's excellent ref above). What would it mean for the IR temperature measurements?


  • So - this is maybe bad news for you Ele - I'm sorry to break it to you. But those guys in Unis you talk about - not the Lugano testers who are behaving very atypically - don't pay any attention to EleSays with no supporting argument, and do pay a lot of attention to things like this. I guess that must be the mystical University lab effect making them biassed? Or maybe they just prefer latex published documents? What do you think?


    More seriously. I'm up for detailed mathematical argument showing how an IR thermographic camera with one-band sensor measuring only 7-13u could possibly respond to radiant frequency from a non-grey-body such that temperature can be inferred from body total emissivity. Take as a counter-example two non-grey-bodies with identical T.E. and 7-13u band emissivity of 0.1 and 1 respectively at a given temperature T. One will receive 10X more radiant power than the other, yet they have the same actual temperature (T). If you claim this cannot happen would you like me to post the relevant spectra, and show you how to get the corresponding total and band emissivities? It is not difficult...


    You could look at TC's paper linked above and detail which equation there is wrong, and how it should be corrected? Or some other detailed argument. But not, please, EleSays. The beauty of maths is that you have to be precise which leaves no room for twisty half-truth and misdirection - there is all too much of that in this leggal case.

  • 303 is well written, and researched. It addresses each sides attempts to disallow, or limit the other's expert testimony. Both Smith and Murray passed muster, but Wong not so much. Here are Wong's 4 opinions the court considered:


    (1) the coefficient of performance is a suitable criterion to gauge the

    E-Cat’s performance;


    (2) there are logical explanations for the inverse relationship between the

    power input into a device and its coefficient of performance;


    (3) it was possible for one

    megawatt of heat energy to be expelled without rendering the Doral facility an unsafe working

    environment; and


    (4) it was possible to expel one megawatt of heat energy from the Doral

    facility consistent with the Penon Report.


    The court determined that Wong will not be allowed to testify on 1 and 2...which pretty much knocks out the Penon report. He is allowed however, to testify on 3&4...both concerning the upstairs heat exchanger. What a lucky guy! :) I bet he is wondering how the hell his reputation became hostage to a Rossisays. Would not want to be in his shoes.


    It was very clear from my reading, that the author of 303 understood, that Wong's opinion being based on a Rossisays, makes 3 and 4 opinion borderline excludable. He concludes though by playing it safe, and deciding that a jury is best suited to judge whether Rossi is being truthful.


    Rossi will be hammered on the stand about this. His story sounds just like...well, a story. No pics, no documentation, fathom day laborers, no one else noticed, windows intact, etc....hard to find 6 jurors who could believe him on this. His foreign accent, little guy (David) appearance, IH's big guy (Goliath) look, and Rossi's bringing his spittoon to the stand (he can not swallow), won't save him from the insincerity of his testimony.


    Take out the HE, and the case is all but over. As 303 notes, even Wong admits that without it (HE), there was no 1MW.

  • OK - let us follow your logic and assume a fluorescent-type narrow spectral line in the 7-13u range. [...] What would it mean for the IR temperature measurements?


    Thanks for following along. If the tube emitted more energy in a narrow band within or near that range compared to an ideal black body, wouldn't it appear hotter to the IR camera than it actually is? I think this apparent excess heat would disappear or at the very least not be as visible in a calorimeter or with thermocouples. Is this reasoning correct?

  • It was very clear from my reading, that the author of 303 understood, that Wong's opinion being based on a Rossisays, makes 3 and 4 opinion borderline excludable. He concludes though by playing it safe, and deciding that a jury is best suited to judge whether Rossi is being truthful.


    Excellent analysis.


    But just for clarification I'm pretty sure 'he' (the author of 303) is 'she', as in Judge Altonaga, or if it's not written by her, then it's 'he or she'.

  • But just for clarification I'm pretty sure 'he' (the author of 303) is 'she', as in Judge Altonaga, or if it's not written by her, then it's 'he or she'.


    Understand Sig. I went by the assumption that judges are too busy to research and write up these complex decisions? Could be wrong, but I thought they had clerks, interns, law students etc who do the heavy lifting, and they review, and sign off on.


    Anyways; whomever -whatever sex they may be, that wrote 303...good job!

  • Thanks for following along. If the tube emitted more energy in a narrow band within or near that range compared to an ideal black body, wouldn't it appear hotter to the IR camera than it actually is? I think this apparent excess heat would disappear or at the very least not be as visible in a calorimeter or with thermocouples. Is this reasoning correct?


    Yes, so any estimate of power dissipated based on such a reading of temperature would be too high.


    Like what Rossi did with the quarkX measurements.


    You can see though from Ahlfors plot that typically over one decade in spectral frequency the ups and downs average out: you get these monospectral effects in strongly fluorescent or laser systems where electrons are being pumped somehow.

  • ....hard to find 6 jurors who could believe him on this.

    Well....

    1) IHFB

    2) We_Cat_Global

    3) Ele

    4) Scc

    5) Ahlfors

    6) Wyttenbach

    7) Rinonrlty


    and about 20-30 on ECW!


    Not only believe him on this, but the QuarkX and it's many wonders, the existence of any customer he states, robotic factories, certifications, purchased platinum sponge, industrial production, the existence of any consultant he states and that he will soon give an "independint confirmation test"!


    The above will also easily return the verdict that IH is evil, Darden a liar, Murray incompetent, the heat exchanger DID exist, the pipe was DN150 (wait... perhaps DN200 now), Bass was a qualified chief engineer, the Doral event WAS the GPT, that the eCat works exactly as Rossi states and that "big oil", the "powers that be" and greedy capitalist are all conspiring to cheat poor, frail, honest, saintly Mr. Rossi from his Nobel worthy IP!


    Rossi says = Absolute truth (in the end anyways. He is totally justified in stretching things a little now and then due to evil IH and their scheming ways!)


    =O


  • They're just waiting for the rest of us to have our 'come to Rossi' moment.

    ;)

  • Yes, so any estimate of power dissipated based on such a reading of temperature would be too high.


    Like what Rossi did with the quarkX measurements.


    You can see though from Ahlfors plot that typically over one decade in spectral frequency the ups and downs average out: you get these monospectral effects in strongly fluorescent or laser systems where electrons are being pumped somehow.


    I general I think there has to be some sort of continuity between the Lugano-type, opaque ceramic hot tube reactors and the QuarkX. Maybe they're not completely different in both the way they're made to operate and how measurements are performed.


    Now, whether standard alumina tubes can actually be made transparent to IR enough to affect infrared camera measurements, I have no idea...


    "Gas discharge lamp" based on embrittled soft ferrites embedded in variable B fields and "measured" in Lugano with IR cameras, near or below Curie point - the "mouse".


    Wouldn't this imply temperatures around 600°C or so?

  • Rossi will provide as evidence, his patent applications for "Invisible Megawatt Heat Exchanger", and "Quick-Change Glazing System for Commercial Construction".

  • Will there be an appeal of the upcoming verdict undertaken by the loser of the Rossi/ih case?

    I am unclear on that. If there is a summary that releases IH as the defendant, I am not sure if Rossi can appeal. There is a double jeopardy thing but I am not sure it extends to this kind of contract case.

    I am fairly sure that IH would appeal if it went against them but not sure about a appeal that puts a defendant in jeopardy a second time. But this is conjecture and out of my field of experience.

  • Will there be an appeal of the upcoming verdict undertaken by the loser of the Rossi/ih case?



    From: http://www.uscourts.gov/about-…ourts/types-cases/appeals


    Quote

    The losing party in a decision by a trial court in the federal courts normally is entitled to appeal the decision to a federal court of appeals.


    If it is a civil case, either side may appeal the verdict.


    Given the amount of money and the contentious issues, it's virtually guaranteed that the decision will be appealed by the losing party.


    But that won't happen until the jury hears the case and reaches a verdict in the current Court.

  • Andrea Rossi
    May 17, 2017 at 4:34 PM

    Mindy:


    My working time now is 50% dedicated to the litigation, 50% to the QuarkX, but luckily the trial will end by the end of July, so, at this point, we are in the home stretch.


    Thank you for your kind words,


    Warm Regards,


    A.R.


    ===================================

    With the certainty of an unending appeal that will be undertaken by either party in the Rossi/IH trial, Rossi has not yet understood that this legal process in protecting his IP rights is an unending legal job that will probably extend beyond his life expectancy. He needs to setup a corporate structure that can support continuing litigation in perpetuity through the long term and can persist and be sustained beyond his lifetime.


    Rossi can only fight one foe at a time in court. While IH anf Rossi are engaged in battle, other parties can infringe on Rossi's IP rights with little chance of legal entanglements. While Rossi and IH are contesting in court, they both become non factors in the LENR marketplace.

  • I am not sure how much IP Rossi actually has outside of a hot water heater. There is a lot of prior art and public information. One year after the info is public it become virtually impossible to produce a lasting patent. Also, if he wins, then IH will still hold the rights to any improvements on the Ni - H devices if they pay the costs. Sure looks like the first agreement would hold even if the second is in question.

    Perhaps, his new device does not use Ni at elevated temps.

  • I must say that if Judge Altonaga authored Doc 303, it shows that there are no flies on that lady, and that she has a firm grasp of the essentials of the case. In particular, she will have no truck with any argument that it matters not if the ecats don't work and that it's all about the letter of the agreements. If the ecats don't work, IH owe Rossi nothing.


    And wouldn't I just love for her to order Rossi to produce a working ecat to avoid criminal prosecution. (Yes, I know it won't happen, but a man can dream...)